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Posted (edited)

The decision to preserve/maintain HL lies between LL and the region owner/nonprofit organization.

Someone needs to look into the laws governing nonprofits in the US both federal and state (CA) to be absolutely certain rentals can be allowed as long as the organization is not making a profit from those rentals. If they are not and the amounts are going to pay for the region then it could be that LL is overstepping the bounds of the law. It could also turn out the organization is.
 

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  • Private benefit/inurement --“ An organization may not permit an insider (someone with a personal or private interest in the organization) to benefit substantially from the activities of the organization.
  • Lobbying --“ While 501(c)(3) organizations are permitted to engage in lobbying on some level, the amount of lobbying activities must be limited so that it's not a substantial portion of the organization's activities.
  • Political campaign activity/electioneering --“ 501(c)(3) organizations and their representatives (while acting in an official capacity) may not campaign for or against candidates for elected office.
  • Unrelated business income (UBI) -- “ An organization may lose its exempt status if it generates excessive income from a regularly-carried-on trade or business that is not substantially related to the organization's exempt purpose.
  • Annual reporting obligation -- “ With the exception of churches and subordinate organizations, all 501(c)(3) public charities are required to file some version of the Form 990 with the IRS on an annual basis. While smaller organizations with gross receipts under $50,000 were previously exempt from this requirement, these charities must now file the Form 990-N (e-Postcard) each year in order to stay compliant.
  • Operation in accord with stated exempt purpose -- An exempt organization is expected to operate in accordance with the charitable purpose or purposes outlined in its application for recognition of tax-exempt status (Form 1023 or 1023-EZ). An organization must notify the IRS of any substantial changes to its operating purpose.

https://grantspace.org/resources/knowledge-base/tax-exempt-revocation/

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

If they are not and the amounts are going to pay for the region then it could be that LL is overstepping the bounds of the law. It could also turn out the organization is.

I don't think there's any hint that the Lab is challenging the tax-exempt status of organizations that collect rent off their SL land holdings. Rather, LL doesn't offer their own special non-profit discount to those organizations.

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't think there's any hint that the Lab is challenging the tax-exempt status of organizations that collect rent off their SL land holdings. Rather, LL doesn't offer their own special non-profit discount to those organizations.

I didn't say LL was challenging the tax status. That isn't any where near my point.

 

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Okay, then I don't understand the point. If not the 501(c)(3) status of the non-profit, what law could LL be overstepping? They're simply refusing to extend a discount to organizations that offer the discounted service (land) to third parties, taking unfair advantage in competing with others who pay full price -- and in this case, unfairly competing with the Lab's own land offerings.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I didn't say LL was challenging the tax status. That isn't any where near my point.

 

Honestly I doubt that even matters

AFAIK HL is a French collective - their non-profit status in France hardly matters in California.

LL decides for itself who gets prefered treatment on their services - und under what circumstances.

I am member of a non profit NGO as well - and we boost out finances by selling food at local community events - this does not challenge our tax status as non profit in any way as out total still is mostly donations funded. If however someone offers us to to get a booth at the community event for less because we are non-profit but only under the obligation we do not sell any food in that case. Well in that case we have to decide wether we want to sell food for charity at full booth price or use the no profit offer and just hand out flyers... Basically that is pretty similar to what happens here.

Edited by Fionalein
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Yes, LL decides whether or not to offer nonprofits "discounts" or reduced prices, however, LL did make the decision to offer reduced prices to nonprofits and LL still must abide by both California and federal laws regarding nonprofits because those laws also govern those who do business with nonprofits. LL is doing business with this particular nonprofit by allowing the nonprofit to purchase regions and maintaining those regions on LL's servers for a monetary exchange.

My point is both sides have to abide by the state and federal laws governing nonprofits.

I can see where LL just might not be in compliance itself.

Yes, I have had experience working with/for a national nonprofit organization and have held a minor office or two. 

ABATE of Mississippi

ABATE of Louisiana

Texas ABATE

CMT/ABATE of Tennessee

and most recently ABATE of Oregon.

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8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

INSILICO and Hangars are nowhere near as cutting edge now as Suffugium was in its time. Granted, that was more than ten years ago and the recording Neo found and posted to YouTube doesn't begin to do it justice, but nonethless: wait five years, go back to a preserved-in-amber Hangars. It won't be an inspiring immersive cyberpunk experience anymore, it'll be a trip down memory lane of old timey content creation methods.

And ironically, that's probably the best argument for its preservation.

this ^^

i think it is the only argument for preservation of inworld builds. Building is not just about art. It is also about engineering. Preservation is a snapshot in time of technique and best practices with the resources and tools available at that time. A museum piece, a recording of history    

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OMFG!! I love Hangars Liquides! Can't believe they're closing. :( This was my all-time fave Sci-Fi sim, with a beautiful, dim Blade Runner kinda feel to it.

This is a sad day for SL. :( 

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If it helps, I will gladly rent a space there (if they lose the discount) Djehan has always been so kind to me.

P.S. Way to sabotage your own virtual world, Lindens!

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4 hours ago, kiramanell said:

OMFG!! I love Hangars Liquides! Can't believe they're closing. :( This was my all-time fave Sci-Fi sim, with a beautiful, dim Blade Runner kinda feel to it.

This is a sad day for SL. :( 

Kira, thank you for your love and appreciation!

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I went there to say goodbye. Walked around for an hour, looked into some vacant rentals, tried the sushi bar, flew around in a mini-helicopter and took video. I'll miss that place.

But it just wasn't used much. I've never seen more than three people in its five sims.

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3 minutes ago, animats said:

looked into some vacant rentals

maybe the fandom could do that

think of the rental box as a donation to the non-profit.  Only becomes a actual rental if people mount their own stuff in the space, or treat the space as for their exclusive use. Nobody has to do that part

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Posted (edited)

The arrogance and sense of entitlement of the Hangars Liquides fans is a work of art too, should we ask LL to preserve them as a frozen piece of SecondLife history too?

If your region is a commercial venue, you are not eligible for the non-profit discount, plain and simple. The creator most likely knew it but decided to do it anyway.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir
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2 hours ago, kiramanell said:

If it helps, I will gladly rent a space there (if they lose the discount) Djehan has always been so kind to me.

P.S. Way to sabotage your own virtual world, Lindens!

Dear Kira, get in touch with Djehan, I will make sure I tell her. See you there, you're always welcome to my home in North. 

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1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

maybe the fandom could do that

think of the rental box as a donation to the non-profit.  Only becomes a actual rental if people mount their own stuff in the space, or treat the space as for their exclusive use. Nobody has to do that part

Thanks Molly, a friend who's a long time real estate owner in Sl is looking if this is legally possible within the Linden Labs Tos and rules. 

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1 hour ago, animats said:

I went there to say goodbye. Walked around for an hour, looked into some vacant rentals, tried the sushi bar, flew around in a mini-helicopter and took video. I'll miss that place.

But it just wasn't used much. I've never seen more than three people in its five sims.

Maybe you came when we were all sleeping, lol. I've never seen only three people in the five sims in ten years. Thanks for the appreciation and for your visit. No final word is yet said, we have had a lot of appreciation especially inworld, with major builders and coders coming to offer support. 

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12 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Thanks Molly, a friend who's a long time real estate owner in Sl is looking if this is legally possible within the Linden Labs Tos and rules. 

if you want to keep it going as it is, an ongoing environment,  and not turn it into a museum (which it will we be if it goes down the preservation path) is to get creative financially.  The only viable path to keeping it on the non-profit discounted program is thru donations

donations/tips in the general sense, can be viable when there is no implicit benefit given that is disallowed

a thing that I would also look at in return for a donation is Recognition.  A wearable group tag over a donor's head is a form of Recognition. A donor guild tag, a donor guild rank, etc. Perhaps collective guild rez rights anywhere on a region set aside for that purpose, etc

the other thing of course is that  only 1 or 2 regions could remain as non-profit, the binding for the community. The other surrounding regions go full commercial and the rents set to cover them and the 1 or 2 binding regions.  It may be that this path allows the community to grow. Other people who already have regions of their own and have the shared passion may move their regions and attach them to the bindings

 

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5 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

if you want to keep it going as it is, an ongoing environment,  and not turn it into a museum (which it will we be if it goes down the preservation path) is to get creative financially.  The only viable path to keeping it on the non-profit discounted program is thru donations

donations/tips in the general sense, can be viable when there is no implicit benefit given that is disallowed

a thing that I would also look at in return for a donation is Recognition.  A wearable group tag over a donor's head is a form of Recognition. A donor guild tag, a donor guild rank, etc. Perhaps collective guild rez rights anywhere on a region set aside for that purpose, etc

the other thing of course is that  only 1 or 2 regions could remain as non-profit, the binding for the community. The other surrounding regions go full commercial and the rents set to cover them and the 1 or 2 binding regions.  It may be that this path allows the community to grow. Other people who already have regions of their own and have the shared passion may move their regions and attach them to the bindings

 

Once again, thank you Molly for being on topic and offering practical and viable ideas.

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