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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

That's why Djehan Kidd and Hangars Liquides, and the other good artists/content creators in Sl (if there still are any left) should be granted the chance of doing their job: creating beauty for others to enjoy.

They get granted the same chance as everyone else. Who decides who's art is superior than someone other's? This thread started with a lot of positive attitude and goodwill towards HL - but sadly the Hangarians do a good job of slowly eroding it away.

Edited by Fionalein
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Just now, Lawrence Celestalis said:

what other users have supposedly done (copybotting, forced teleports (which are impossible without Linden level God power)

Well, I was there to witness it and have seen it happen. This hacker/copybotter is actually a former Linden and she has been deleted her accounts twice for copybotting. And we all know what is possible since these people use hacked Viewers that do all these things you call impossible and which I have seen happen. Anyway, back to topic. 

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4 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

They get granted the same chance as everyone else. Who says decides who's art is superior than someone other's? This thread started with a lot of positive attitude and goodwill towards HL - but sadly the Hangarians do a good job of slowly eroding it away.

All the negative comments and off topic are not coming from Hangarians, lol

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2 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I fear that, in the lack of sustainable conditions, this artist will go to Samsar, where the support for artists is granted. Should there be another Instagram, all good content owners frustrated with likes and engagement artificially truncated only to make them pay, they will all flock somewhere else. And mainland is LL problem, not artists'. If LL wants to have beautiful mainland, they can pay good builders to beautify it, and people will go back. As you know, also in real estate, bad neighbourhood diminish the value of your land, while good one raises it.

Tell that to the many lindens/USD users make and USD Linden Lab make from people buying land on the mainland near Blake Sea. Some land there sells in the $1000's of USD.

Quote

So you are arguing ugly builds are not LL problem and lack of content isn't too, when actually, in the end it hits them in the wallet. 

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. It has always been and will always be Labs' policy "Your world, Your imagination". That is the very reason why you don't see Labs making any effort to build on mainland other than what they did many moons ago in the beginning with moles.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

All the negative comments and off topic are not coming from Hangarians, lol

Your lack of considering perspective is remarkable - given the fact you came here to defend an artist

Edited by Fionalein
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6 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

They get granted the same chance as everyone else. Who says decides who's art is superior than someone other's? 

Oh, are they? And why are they all leaving since 2010? This is what I am pointing out. 

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Those are your own claims and they are unable to be proven - full stop.

Any time such claims - and the justification for them you just tried to pull as well as the dismissal at the end - are pulled out, it does not end well nor does it give a good image of the one putting them forward.

Once again, take a step or two back. you are not helping your cause. At all.

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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Your lack of considering perspective is remarkable - given the fact you came here to defend an artist

Well, let's both look at each lack of perspective and let's go back to topic, thank you. 

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9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That doesn't mean Hangars shouldn't be preserved somehow, but that's the thing about historical artifacts: They get old and look funny after a while.

Oh come on, Qie . HL doesn' t look anything like Suffigium in the slightest. Even I could create something like Suffigium.

HL is at level with Insilico. Do you compare Suffigium to that as well ?

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1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Oh, are they? And why are they all leaving since 2010? This is what I am pointing out. 

Linden Lab decides, as carefully as they can. Beginning and end. Our opinions on the matter mean very little.

The owner needs to put forth their request, let them process it and then go from there.

Can general user sentiment sway their opinion? Potentially, yes. It has to be reasoned and based on fact - not opinions.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Look, sit down folks and take a step back. It is one thing to be passionate about a given thing or idea and quite another being presented here ...

It is indeed a lovely place - one I need to return to and poke around in some more - but what is being said here by some of those wishing for it to remain simply gives a very bad image. 

What Linden Lab is/is not doing with Mainland or their new Linden Homes project is irrelevant to the financial (and other) issues that this cluster of private islands is apparently going through. Like it or not, that is how it is on thatI

Like to Qie, I' d have to say again, if only money should be talking, you are right.

If only ... :|

I' m stepping back for now.

Edited by TDD123

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3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Linden Lab decides, as carefully as they can. Beginning and end. Our opinions on the matter mean very little.

The owner needs to put forth their request, let them process it and then go from there.

Can general user sentiment sway their opinion? Potentially, yes. It has to be reasoned and based on fact - not opinions.

Thank you. LL of course decides. I will take your post as an inspiration to not reply all off topic posts coming next. 

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Linden Lab decides what posts are on or off topic.

Oh yes, and nice job of sanitizing your response earlier - that doesn't help your case much either.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Linden Lab decides what posts are on or off topic.

Oh yes, and nice job of sanitizing your response earlier - that doesn't help your case much either.

Didn't sanitize anything, that was an empty post (where I quoted someone without replying) I couldn't delete. Lol

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis

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3 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Didn't sanitize anything, that was an empty post (where I quoted someone without replying) I couldn't delete. Lol

My bad then - it also does not help matters however that your very next post quotes yourself with a snippet of what you'd intended to respond to.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

My bad then - it also does not help matters however that your very next post quotes yourself with a snippet of what you'd intended to respond to.

Thanks for the suggestion. Now builders, coders, Sl real estate owners are coming to Hangars and I must say the level of conversation is much more positive, productive and on topic. Thank you all anyway to engage in this thread and be welcome to keep posting. 

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

Who decides who's art is superior than someone other's? 

Fiona, this is a very good point you made. In rl museums, international institutions like Venice Biennale and art galleries have curators and critics, people who know what they're talking about. Thanks for bringing this into conversation, because I think the situation Hangars Liquides is in now has happened in the past and will again in the future, and it depends on this point particularly. 

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis

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10 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

people who know what they're talking about. 

Docents.

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Docents.

Well, not only, art professors teach, art critics and curators are more into organizing and deciding things related to arts. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

Well, not only, art professors teach, art critics and curators are more into organizing and deciding things related to arts. 

Some folks call them the "art" industry over here with art put in paranthesis on purpose.

  • What constitutes as art?
  • What is acceptable in art?
  • What is the bare minimum of art?
  • What is the purpose of art?
  • Who decides on art?
  • What is good art?

Anyone offering a simple solution on any of the above propably might not be suited to answering them in the first place.

Edited by Fionalein
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Some folks call them the "art" industry over here with art put in paranthesis on purpose.

  • What constitutes as art?
  • What is acceptable in art?
  • What is the bare minimum of art?
  • What is the purpose of art?
  • Who decides on art?
  • What is good art?

Anyone offering a simple solution on any of the above propably might not be suited to answering them in the first place.

I may quote several art critics' books that come to my mind to answer some of the questions you highlight. However, I would go off topic. So, to stay on topic:

Inworld:

- LL itself chose to use Hangars to advertise Second Life. I won't name the numerous other builders (some are Sl legends who started it, coders, fashion creators) who live in HL and come to express appreciation.

Rl:


-William Gibson, the godfather of cyberpunk lived in Hangars for a whole year in order to gather material for his book. Djehan and me are both in the book. 

- When I proposed Venice Art Biennale, the first, biggest and oldest modern and contemporary art event (two centuries history), a project by Djehan Kidd and me, they accepted based on her city Hangars Liquides.

-Two famous italian architects, one of them teaching at MIT Senseable Lab, told me she's a great architect despite her being graduated in multimedia arts and not architecture, and that they would love to collaborate. 

-As mentioned by New World Notes article, Hangars was covered by Oprah and the Telegraph. Great art never goes unnoticed. Of course media coverage is not proof of great art. 

Fiona, you may agree that, while Angela Vettese says in one of her books that art is "whatever a certain number of people agree it's art", we need a certain level of selection. That is certainly made within the art system, as Achille Bonito Oliva calls the economical system which deals with contemporary art, otherwise whatever I or anyone else create, may be called art and be in museums.

 

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
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3 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Oh come on, Qie . HL doesn' t look anything like Suffigium in the slightest. Even I could create something like Suffigium.

HL is at level with Insilico. Do you compare Suffigium to that as well ?

INSILICO and Hangars are nowhere near as cutting edge now as Suffugium was in its time. Granted, that was more than ten years ago and the recording Neo found and posted to YouTube doesn't begin to do it justice, but nonethless: wait five years, go back to a preserved-in-amber Hangars. It won't be an inspiring immersive cyberpunk experience anymore, it'll be a trip down memory lane of old timey content creation methods.

And ironically, that's probably the best argument for its preservation.

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I'm terribly afraid this is not going to sound fact based at all, or add much after all that has already been said, and probably it's just a bunch of emotional platitudes.  I hope it helps a bit though.  Hangars has been my home in SL for around nine months, before then I had often come to visit and spend hours letting its atmosphere soak in.  Djehan's wondrous work would make me feel transported to these places that authors like Gibson, K Dick and others had envisioned, an always too near dystopian world both beautiful and scary, fascinating and terrifying.  The city's grey concrete buildings would help me reflect on what means to be human, would fill me with emotions of despair and hope, loneliness and belonging,  peace and chaos, help me find myself every time.  A window to twelve years in the life of an artist that I believe makes SL a more meaningful, beautiful and essential place, worth being preserved for others to come and experience.  Thank you,  Djehan, Lawrence and everyone in the HL team for this unique, extraordinary opportunity.

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27 minutes ago, Annwehn said:


I'm terribly afraid this is not going to sound fact based at all, or add much after all that has already been said, and probably it's just a bunch of emotional platitudes.  I hope it helps a bit though.  Hangars has been my home in SL for around nine months, before then I had often come to visit and spend hours letting its atmosphere soak in.  Djehan's wondrous work would make me feel transported to these places that authors like Gibson, K Dick and others had envisioned, an always too near dystopian world both beautiful and scary, fascinating and terrifying.  The city's grey concrete buildings would help me reflect on what means to be human, would fill me with emotions of despair and hope, loneliness and belonging,  peace and chaos, help me find myself every time.  A window to twelve years in the life of an artist that I believe makes SL a more meaningful, beautiful and essential place, worth being preserved for others to come and experience.  Thank you,  Djehan, Lawrence and everyone in the HL team for this unique, extraordinary opportunity.

Thank you Annwehn

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