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42 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I need not to do anythinbg of the sort anymore. I tried. Got ridiculed. Sneered at. All over the thread. I repeatedly told this was from an end user perspective, not affiliated with the sim ( which I am now by donations ). I was never their spokesperson to begin with.

Maybe the passion for landbusiness and profitmargins and everything it destroys could be lessened as well. Not hearing anything about that either.

I tried Scylla. And I simply give up.

But thanks for the lead in. I have no more business in these forums. And I will never return. It's over for me.

Goodbye.

I skimmed this thread so I may have missed the parts you are referring to, but I've also seen some good advice for rallying support to preserve it.

HL is not my milieu but for the sake of those who love the place, I wish you luck keeping the sim going.

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57 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

/me slaps kiramanell gently but decidedly over the head.

Are you crazy ? They're just trying to make you feel the same melancholy towards Hangars Liquides. already.Like nothing can be done no more.

Hangars Liquides is still there. It should not surrender like that.

 

( But admitted .. those are fine examples of beauty regrettably lost to SL forever )

Art is ultimately transient, even the sphynx will go away.

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6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

And maybe he didn't even watch. I love this way of doing things. It's like parking meter cozies that mysteriously appear overnight, the Gnomist or the UK Book Sculptor. The mystery is part of the art.

In my own, low brow way, I do my part. In my teens, I made a crop circle. I add red reflective noses to deer crossing signs on my trips across America, and I put googly eyes on whatever pleases me. I build snowmen on other people's lawns during the wee hours and write the names of the neighborhood children on stones I find on the beach. The trails through my woods are filled with oddities for the finding, all suggestive of creatures who live there but can't be seen.

Or the guy who stole the lady's garden gnome and 'sent it globetrotting' way back when and now we have the famous Travelocity gnome.

travelocity-roaming-gnome2-600.jpg

 

Quote

The earliest record of a prank involving a traveling gnome is from Australia in 1986 when the Sydney Morning Herald reported an "Eastern Suburbs gnome-owner was distressed when she discovered her gnome had been stolen at the weekend. A note was found in its place: 'Dear mum, couldn't stand the solitude any longer. Gone off to see the world. Don't be worried, I'll be back soon. Love Bilbo xxx.'"[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_gnome

 

 

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On 7/17/2019 at 5:23 AM, kiramanell said:

Hangars Liquides is really one of the most beautiful sci-fi sims ever to have existed in SL. That New World Notes blog calls Djehan a genius. I couldn't agree more. And truly, no one builds like that any more. It's (purposely) dim, and has always given me an incredible Blade Runner feel (which Djehan once said was actually fully intended). It's tightly packed, but an architectual marvel, maybe precisely because of it. There are so many levels, literally and figuratively, it's stunning, really. 

I honestly hope this can stay preserved somehow.

Yes, and her purpose (from reading some of her writings) is to show what the world could become.  It is not a glorification of of this type of world, though she shows it artistically, beautifully.

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8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There is a beauty in darkness, perhaps because it reminds us of what can happen if we don't attend to the beauty of what we have now.

 

I'm feeling rather philosophical tonight; in no small part due to all these thought-provoking ideas ppl are putting out here. :)

There is a definitely beauty in darkness, and certainly for the reason you mention.

But when I think of why I like a movie like Blade Runner so much -- or, more on-topic, the dystopian world that is HL -- it's more than just lamenting/being reminded of the what we lost. Dystopian worlds actually inspire hope for me. It's a world that's still functional, but not optimal. Close enough, though, that you can still see what things should have been like, but currently aren't. Actually, come to think of it, I think I'm pretty much saying the exact same thing you are, LOL.

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On 7/25/2019 at 8:54 AM, TDD123 said:

Picking out this one particularly.

Yes Orwar, that IS the point. And it's everything but vague. The sim has had critical appraisal from  art critics and admirers in the real world.  You can check that out on the internet. That is (also) why this sim is important to me.

ACTUAL ART IS BEYING DESTROYED !!!

Please let taht sink in a while. For just a bit. And the implication to Secondlife and Lindenlab towards art as a whole. Because of digital fake land.

That is a point, that is, indiscussable with me. You don't destroy real art over fake land.

I hope we understand eachother better now.

 

Do not pretend YOUR art is ever "better" or more meaningful than another person's, while at the same time asking others to fund your art. That attitude alone will drive people away from "your art". While that looks like some kind of barking orders directed towards only you....it's not.

You know what art is being destroyed every single day...everything, and somewhere in the world someone is mad as hell about it. I get it, and I get it on levels you and others never possibly could. I do so because the world and I do mean the literal world and all that it contains, all of its art, is being destroyed all around me. Not only are humans and the world in general destroying it all, but so is he cruelty that is genetics and piss poor luck on my part. It pisses me off to no end when people have such passion for something that they can't see past it or see that their passion might actually come across with way more arrogance than it should. This post is a good example of that. That's actually what I was referring to earlier in the thread. Not a " you didn't care about my favorite sims, so no one should care about yours"- which is what I was accused of earlier (sorry TDD I'm using your post as a jumping off point, rather than directed back towards just you). 

I, too want to see the sim saved, I'd like to see them ALL saved though, really, even some I probably don't like. I do love to see the passion people have, but I'm on board with the folks who say "love your passion, but it might be leading ya down some wrong paths on this". Some of you who are so very passionate, are really, really, really coming off as arrogant and pretty damn ignorant of the *other art that is all around you. I know what passion for something can cause- and it very easily can cause both arrogance and ignorance, been there, done that myself too. It happens when we feel so strongly about something. So maybe this long winded rant is really me saying..."go back and read everything, start to finish, from the perspectives of others". I mean it too, go back and read as someone with no vested interest, someone who has never been there, someone who hates cyberpunk but maybe loves other art, someone hates all "art"...whatever you want. I bet you'll come back with the same kind of head scratches loads of us reading had when the passion goes from loving this creator and this art, to throwing shade, casting nasty remarks at anyone who asked anything you couldn't answer directly (reasons irrelevant) and causing people to wonder Wtf is going on.

Get out of you ur own head for a bit. I say this as someone that frequently has to do the same on things for which I have an immense amount of passion. It's super easy to get lost in your own objectives, even easier to do it and not know it.

Again..it is an awesome place not condemning the owner or supporters at all, and I do hope it remains. But I hope to also see those pushing for art to remain out other getting their feel for all the other amazing places that other folks love. I have seen so many people say "I've never been there, so I went"..wouldn't it be just as nifty for the rest of the grid to see the same support too? I mean I can't possibly be asking too much here, lol. 

Kudos to those saving their sim, and the creator, hopefully moving forward better decisions will be made all around so that such a beloved  and quite long standing place doesn't have to go through such newbie growing pains at what seems to be such a critical time. 

 

 

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Well said Tari, well said and honestly something that should have been rather apparent to some responding here as well as something that really should not have even needed to be so blatantly/bluntly laid out. I know I tried to lead a few to such a realization ...

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Posted (edited)

No, I'm actually really too tired of this sh*t. :( Just forget it.

Edited by kiramanell
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

I'm feeling rather philosophical tonight; in no small part due to all these thought-provoking ideas ppl are putting out here. :)

There is a definitely beauty in darkness, and certainly for the reason you mention.

But when I think of why I like a movie like Blade Runner so much -- or, more on-topic, the dystopian world that is HL -- it's more than just lamenting/being reminded of the what we lost. Dystopian worlds actually inspire hope for me. It's a world that's still functional, but not optimal. Close enough, though, that you can still see what things should have been like, but currently aren't. Actually, come to think of it, I think I'm pretty much saying the exact same thing you are, LOL.

For as long as I can remember, whenever I see a dark dystopian world, particularly desolate ones, I imagine there's an abandoned Home Depot somewhere in it that I can raid for remodeling  and gardening materials. At the end of my endeavors, the place is spotless, green, full of whimsy, empty of people... and mine, all mine!

That may not be the kind of hope you have, but it's the best I can do.

ETA: I should add that the best part of my post apocalyptic fantasy is the absence of building inspectors.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

No, I'm actually really too tired of this sh*t. :( Just forget it.

Hey put that back cause I agreed with all of it.    :)

Besides, you are probably ruining Tari's next draft she worked hard on in order to counter...lol.

But more seriously, perhaps it should just stop here. It seems these types of threads go on and on and on in attempt to make one or the other side if not totally wrong, then at least more wrong.  Maybe best (though not sure it can happen) to let it fade out in a deep blue dystopian haze...

Edited by Luna Bliss
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3 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Do not pretend YOUR art is ever "better" or more meaningful than another person's, while at the same time asking others to fund your art. That attitude alone will drive people away from "your art". While that looks like some kind of barking orders directed towards only you....it's not.

You know what art is being destroyed every single day...everything, and somewhere in the world someone is mad as hell about it. I get it, and I get it on levels you and others never possibly could. I do so because the world and I do mean the literal world and all that it contains, all of its art, is being destroyed all around me. Not only are humans and the world in general destroying it all, but so is he cruelty that is genetics and piss poor luck on my part. It pisses me off to no end when people have such passion for something that they can't see past it or see that their passion might actually come across with way more arrogance than it should. This post is a good example of that. That's actually what I was referring to earlier in the thread. Not a " you didn't care about my favorite sims, so no one should care about yours"- which is what I was accused of earlier (sorry TDD I'm using your post as a jumping off point, rather than directed back towards just you). 

I, too want to see the sim saved, I'd like to see them ALL saved though, really, even some I probably don't like. I do love to see the passion people have, but I'm on board with the folks who say "love your passion, but it might be leading ya down some wrong paths on this". Some of you who are so very passionate, are really, really, really coming off as arrogant and pretty damn ignorant of the *other art that is all around you. I know what passion for something can cause- and it very easily can cause both arrogance and ignorance, been there, done that myself too. It happens when we feel so strongly about something. So maybe this long winded rant is really me saying..."go back and read everything, start to finish, from the perspectives of others". I mean it too, go back and read as someone with no vested interest, someone who has never been there, someone who hates cyberpunk but maybe loves other art, someone hates all "art"...whatever you want. I bet you'll come back with the same kind of head scratches loads of us reading had when the passion goes from loving this creator and this art, to throwing shade, casting nasty remarks at anyone who asked anything you couldn't answer directly (reasons irrelevant) and causing people to wonder Wtf is going on.

Get out of you ur own head for a bit. I say this as someone that frequently has to do the same on things for which I have an immense amount of passion. It's super easy to get lost in your own objectives, even easier to do it and not know it.

Again..it is an awesome place not condemning the owner or supporters at all, and I do hope it remains. But I hope to also see those pushing for art to remain out other getting their feel for all the other amazing places that other folks love. I have seen so many people say "I've never been there, so I went"..wouldn't it be just as nifty for the rest of the grid to see the same support too? I mean I can't possibly be asking too much here, lol. 

Kudos to those saving their sim, and the creator, hopefully moving forward better decisions will be made all around so that such a beloved  and quite long standing place doesn't have to go through such newbie growing pains at what seems to be such a critical time. 

 

 

Very long and did read.  (Not sure if there is some dumboticon for that)

Well put. Agree.

 

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Upon further reflection...I agree with one of Tari's points...lol.

Then perhaps quote it?

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14 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:
18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Upon further reflection...I agree with one of Tari's points...lol.

Then perhaps quote it?

I will after I mull it over more, but atm I'm not sure if I'd be responding to the present or to experiences from the past. You know, is it live or is it memorex? lol
I had experiences with so-called REAL LIFE artists who entered SL trying to get me to hire them for some of the big projects for institutions I worked on then -- artists who always pressed the fact that they were REAL LIFE artists, as if that would be any reason I would hire them. And what were they saying about me then, that I was not really an artist?
These REAL LIFE artists who couldn't align a texture or prim to save their lives.
Oh I could forgive it some, doesn't everyone puff themselves up in some cases in an attempt to feel worthy and/or get others to accept them? Ultimately, it was about their problems and had nothing to do with me. But that's not how I felt -- I felt they were putting me down.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Hey put that back cause I agreed with all of it.    :)

Besides, you are probably ruining Tari's next draft she worked hard on in order to counter...lol.

But more seriously, perhaps it should just stop here. It seems these types of threads go on and on and on in attempt to make one or the other side if not totally wrong, then at least more wrong.  Maybe best (though not sure it can happen) to let it fade out in a deep blue dystopian haze...

 

Yeah, it thought it was a pretty good retort. Thanks. But honestly, I can't do this any more. I usually talk about Linden homes, complimenting ppl on their gardens, interiors, etc. Or chuckle at underwater mermaid builds, put their by our Moles. :) This is really too toxic for me. I can dish it out plenty, and persuasively even, if need be; but I simply hate doing it. It's not me. So, Tari et al. can have this round. Yeah, LOL, that sounded more 'wounded' than I actually intended. I simply just followed my own advice, about not allowing myself to spend too much negative energy on things: it's simply not good for the soul. :) A least not for mine.

As for it stopping it here, after this morning, I kinda thought it already had, when ppl were sharing fond memories of AM Radio. I loved that convo. Then Tari posted, my own ego desperately wanted to retort, and I did. But then I simply decided to withdraw, after all, in reminiscence of an old Dutch proverb, "It's better to return half-way, than to err in full."

Hope HL will make it. Heck, that's really all I was in it for to begin with.

Edited by kiramanell
Will I ever make a post without typos?!
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27 minutes ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Then perhaps quote it?

There have been some worthwhile descriptions of HL here, and some important and interesting discussions about support for the arts in SL, I think.

But this thread is no longer about HL: it's about the personalities and the interpersonal exchanges. I don't think HL, nor the broader discussions we might be having related to it, are well-served by a continuing exchange of this kind.

Kira has entirely the right idea: maybe it's time to put those kinds of to-and-behind us, and let people cool off for a bit.

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28 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

...and let people cool off for a bit.

Then letting Maddy into the thread might have been counterproductive =^.^=

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It's always good to hear the thoughts of a creator when deciding whether to support a project, and so here, with permission, courtesy of Lawrence, they are:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Anne Frank Memorial

(Notecard to HL group today):

Hello,

"In spite of everything i still believe that people are really good at heart", is a quote by Anne Frank.
It is placed in the city, on the outside walls of the Candy Shop, which is the only protected happy place of hangars liquides.

This is a dark and dystopian city, this is not a place we want our children to be or grow up in. But unfortunately we can not protect all the kids enough and what happened to Anne Frank, after I read her diary, is to me, the prime example of what is the most disgustingly dystopian in our world.

In all the darkness, I made that very colorful  innocent place with giant candies, flowers and pancakes, it is not a place for adults obviously, but more one to go celebrate your 10th birthday with your schoolmates. As an artist everything I do has an meaning behind it. and the meaning behind placing a quote of Anne Frank on the outside walls of the colorful candyshop caught inside a monstruously dark city is to try to remind people, just like she did by saying it, that yes in spite of everything, let's try to believe...A message of hope.

It is a memorial dedicated to her and other innocent kids who died and still die today.
A memorial is a place of contemplation, calm, remembrance.

I am being told that some people publicly say that I used that quote "ironically", you see what is in between the lines here, and I have to make it clear that I am not a fascist, for only fascists could use such a quote ironically.

There are other historically relevant illustrations all over my work in the city, 911, Tien an men, the japanese kamikaze, seppuku, the war in syria, authoritarianism, fascism, antifa, WW2 resistance, slavery, basically all these things evolving around the subject of dystopia, the wars, the corrupt politicians, I am a dystopian artist, dystopia is the subject I work with, it is not happy or anything, and it can get heavily politicized.

I have received death threats due to my work, more than once, even though I never felt endangered, internet being the internet, but I did receive some. Maybe that means I am doing my job right, I just want people to think about our world, and how to make it better to fight dystopia, and we ought to do this to protect what we have that is the most beautifully innocent, our kids.

Have a good day everyone.

Djehan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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58 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

[Quoting a notecard]
I am being told that some people publicly say that I used that quote "ironically", you see what is in between the lines here, and I have to make it clear that I am not a fascist, for only fascists could use such a quote ironically.

Oh Groundhog Day already?

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