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12 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

But even IF Linden Lab were to give HL a special discount (beyond being an NPO) -- and, again, I have no idea this is even the case -- they certainly are under no obligation to tell you, or anyone else, as to why they'd be doing it. Heck, there are even sims they choose to preserve for free! And all without having to explain a thing to you. :) 

That's true. Well, the "preserve for free" thing isn't the ideal option here, but the general point is valid. Maybe the Atlas program is a better analogy: Nobody knows what the discounts were (are?) for the Atlas high-rollers. I don't think they knew what rates other Atlas members got. The first rule of Atlas club...

But as you say, you have no idea whether the Lab is really doing anything special here. And I kinda think we worked out what the offer was, and it seems pretty innocuous. In fact, @Mollymews suggested earlier that it could be a good model for others, not only Non-Profits, and LL might want to consider making that configuration of regions a Land product, for the same pricing to everybody.

That sounds suspiciously like good marketing to me.

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Lets see. 4 Homestead surrounding a Full region (non profit).

Following the indiegogo compain, that's 16 rentals per homestead, is that considered "low density rental?" If all the prims where available for the rentals that would be a little more than 300 per rental.

To be fair, the idea of for-profit regions grafted to a non profit doesn't sit well with me, the presence of the non profit region, after all, greatly improve the perceived value of the rentals.

If this ends up flying under the "non profit" pricing rules, i expect our dear land barons to jump on the opportunity.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's true. Well, the "preserve for free" thing isn't the ideal option here, but the general point is valid. Maybe the Atlas program is a better analogy: Nobody knows what the discounts were (are?) for the Atlas high-rollers. I don't think they knew what rates other Atlas members got. The first rule of Atlas club...

But as you say, you have no idea whether the Lab is really doing anything special here. And I kinda think we worked out what the offer was, and it seems pretty innocuous. In fact, @Mollymews suggested earlier that it could be a good model for others, not only Non-Profits, and LL might want to consider making that configuration of regions a Land product, for the same pricing to everybody.

That sounds suspiciously like good marketing to me.

 

Yeah. The 'preserve for free' was perhaps not the best example, as I think they actually do have written-out criteria for that.

But from doing the math -- err, from *others* doing the math -- looks like nothing untoward going on with HL, really.

Edited by kiramanell

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19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's true. Well, the "preserve for free" thing isn't the ideal option here, but the general point is valid. Maybe the Atlas program is a better analogy: Nobody knows what the discounts were (are?) for the Atlas high-rollers. I don't think they knew what rates other Atlas members got. The first rule of Atlas club...

But as you say, you have no idea whether the Lab is really doing anything special here. And I kinda think we worked out what the offer was, and it seems pretty innocuous. In fact, @Mollymews suggested earlier that it could be a good model for others, not only Non-Profits, and LL might want to consider making that configuration of regions a Land product, for the same pricing to everybody.

That sounds suspiciously like good marketing to me.

It does.

And managed properly (and monitored), might it not provide a partial alternative to LEA? Essentially, provide this model to those who commit to either creating, or hosting, art?

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45 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And managed properly (and monitored), might it not provide a partial alternative to LEA? Essentially, provide this model to those who commit to either creating, or hosting, art?

I like it, until I think of the potential drama. Is it ART? Who decides?

As much as I'd like there to be promotion of new art and artists in SL, in this case maybe best to leave unrestricted that Full region centerpiece.

There may be variants of the product, though. Maybe the middle could also be a Homestead, for free as long as the other four Homesteads were all maintained, too. Like a 20% quantity discount on Homesteads.

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2 hours ago, TDD123 said:

I go back inworld, do my own unpacking and building ....

.. and hope more donations are made so the sim will make it after August 1st.

All I really CAN say.

Why don’t you buy a sim, and pay like the rest of us? Why are YOU special?

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10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Why don’t you buy a sim, and pay like the rest of us? Why are YOU special?

I made 3 donations already of 100 EUR each. That can be checked.

 

I cannot pay for the full sim and actually not expect anything in return. I want the sim to just stay.

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54 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I like it, until I think of the potential drama. Is it ART? Who decides?

As much as I'd like there to be promotion of new art and artists in SL, in this case maybe best to leave unrestricted that Full region centerpiece.

Oh, monitoring compliance, not to mention establishing guidelines, would be a nightmare. You'd need some reasonably transparent set of criteria. And maybe a . . . committee! Yes, a committee!!

I understand that there may be some newly unemployed artsie committee members available soon . . . ! Maybe THEY'D consider serving?

😉

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5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

transparent

a totally transparent ( like empty) region be like art. Where you go and just imagine what the artist was meaning 😺

 

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I'm a little disappointed in LEA. I said they wouldn't last 10 years. They folded in 8. I still won the bet.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a totally transparent ( like empty) region be like art. Where you go and just imagine what the artist was meaning 😺

 

Nah, it would only be art with a single prim cube at 12/123/1234 - of course now that I posted it - it isn't very creative anymore....

Edited by Fionalein
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1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

a totally transparent ( like empty) region be like art. Where you go and just imagine what the artist was meaning 😺

 

Where the stream was a symphony by Philip Glass . . . consisting of 6 hours of utter silence.

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9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Where the stream was a symphony by Philip Glass . . . consisting of 6 hours of utter silence.

Even without external sound...I never have utter silence.  The voices keep me company.

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Where the stream was a symphony by Philip Glass . . . consisting of 6 hours of utter silence.

(all the rabid John Cage fans sulk)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, kiramanell said:

looks like nothing untoward going on with HL, really.

erm... seriously? All that has been indicated by everyone supporting HL has been that they have homesteads with rentals providing a way to get money to pay for a non-profit sim, which as far as all those asking questions and debating in this thread are suggesting, that to their knowledge, is against the NP TOS. How is that not untoward?

If this is indeed the case then all anyone is asking is for evidence of such to allow others to know about a way non-profit sims can be supported by the same means.

If on the off chance LL are letting them keep their non-profit discount by offering land for "donations" off the linden exchange or are indeed offering them a behind the scenes discount then it is favouritism. This will not sit well with many users, especially non-profit people that have stuck around despite loosing their sims due to not being able to support them financially because they stayed true to the ToS.

It also, as mentioned by Kyrah, sets a precedent within the system that allows for abuse. I can't see lab wanting this as all it will mean is someone finding about the loophole and replicating it. Loosing LL profit and even further diminishing their public image.

Additionally the very silence on the issue, not by Lab but by HL, is doing the very opposite that HL representatives believe it is by staying silent. They seem to think that staying silent will protect LL and HL from abuse etc., however as proven in this thread it is only making them look like the bad guys doing behind the door discount deals.

I hope the place stays open, have been there and it is very well made. But I also don't like people getting preferential treatment.

Edit: Its funny, my post on the first page to this thread was about Mark Kingdon when he was CEO. He had a reputation for removing this and that and also showing favouritism to the select few. In his case, business owners. My post was intended as a joke, but if favouritism is being shown again by Lab then I hope it doesn't turn ugly for Lab like it did then. I suspect it isn't Lab doing all this, but prove me wrong.

Edited by Drayke Newall
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LL does do the hush hush thing when negotiating. People understand it where there is a nondisclosure type of agreement between LL and TPVs but they aren't quite so understanding when it comes to other kinds of nonprofits. 

And yes I do know for a fact about nondisclosure type of agreements between LL and TPVS which are run purely by volunteers and are nonprofits as I used to work on the support team for one of those TPVs and saw it with my own two eyes. Agreed to one or two as well.

There are other incidents that come to mind as well. RedZone for one. I know there have been many others but those two examples should be sufficient.

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There is the ring of NDA about this thread, but a "double secret" NDA where nobody can say it exists? Now that would be an innovation in the true spirit of Silicon Valley. 

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14 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

It needs to be presented - be it by the creator or a designated spokesperson.

I'll make my very last post here, because you seem very authoritarian in your judgements. Is that an order? So let me ask you, are you a moderator here, or are you in charge of any superior power in the forum? If so, please be so kind to state it. Or are you a forum member like anybody else? If the latter is true, then your opinions are as good as anybody else, and same goes when you say HL people fabricated things. I've read endless assumptions and fabrications not responding to reality, and all those seem okay to you. City supporters have come to me horrified by some of the users in the thread and even more committed to support. One last thing, I've read about discounts under the table, this has never been the case with HL, which has always paid all that was due. 

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looks like you guys have got to the immediate goal of $3,000 with 24 people.  So that's a good start and takes a lot of pressure off and gives you a month to find the next month's worth of tiers. I think that based on this then while you would want it to fill sooner, a take up rate of 8-10 annual subscriptions each month until you get fully subscribed is doable

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I'll make my very last post here, because you seem very authoritarian in your judgements. Is that an order? So let me ask you, are you a moderator here, or are you in charge of any superior power in the forum? If so, please be so kind to state it. Or are you a forum member like anybody else? If the latter is true, then your opinions are as good as anybody else, and same goes when you say HL people fabricated things. I've read endless assumptions and fabrications not responding to reality, and all those seem okay to you. City supporters have come to me horrified by some of the users in the thread and even more committed to support. One last thing, I've read about discounts under the table, this has never been the case with HL, which has always paid all that was due. 

Oh for ... For someone who is supposed to be the PR rep, you have no idea how to do your job.

At all.

I've been nice, I've been patient. You have been noting but blind and judgemental to anyone who has dared to ask even the simplest question and outright dodged several of the harder/more involved questions. If you cannot pass on the information, you state so and why - that is common sense. Those statements must be grounded in facts with absolutely none of your own personal feelings/emotions coloring them - or as close to it as you can get.

Your response above is a prime example of what not to do.

No one has come to you - at all. You can put that tired attempt to sound like you're "in the right" away now. How can I say such? Simple: We have only your word for it and frankly that simply does not fly and never has flown. When responding in a forum, the only person you speak for is yourself with the only exception being official PR and even then you can only speak for the person/company/firm/etc you represent - no one else.

Welcome to reality - if you're really their official PR rep act like it. If not, sit down and stop acting as such as that oh so lovely little opener of yours cuts both ways - you speak from a position of authority concerning HL that no one actually in charge has bothered to come in to verify and so far you've been given the benefit of the doubt by many who have responded with questions or concerns.

Your presentation and attitude in some responses is unbecoming of someone who is supposedly managing a public image.

Have a pleasent day Lawrence, and perhaps you'll stick to that having been your "very last post" as from what I have seen thus far ... you've made a few "last" posts. Each time you proclaim such at that, casting further and further doubt on your own position and abilities where PR is concerned.

Edited to add: It is a blessing for you that this thread exists on Linden Lab's official forum as if this had appeared on some of the external fora, you'd be seeing responses from some that come far closer to your perceptions.

Edited by Solar Legion
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10 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

LL does do the hush hush thing when negotiating. People understand it where there is a nondisclosure type of agreement between LL and TPVs but they aren't quite so understanding when it comes to other kinds of nonprofits. 

And yes I do know for a fact about nondisclosure type of agreements between LL and TPVS which are run purely by volunteers and are nonprofits as I used to work on the support team for one of those TPVs and saw it with my own two eyes. Agreed to one or two as well.

There are other incidents that come to mind as well. RedZone for one. I know there have been many others but those two examples should be sufficient.

So, is like Fight Club?

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16 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And maybe a . . . committee! Yes, a committee!!

 

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I just did give some money for Hangar Liquid's Indiegogo funding, because I can and I like well made scifi regions like Hangars. IMHO it would be great lost if we lose regions like Hangar.

Haven't bothered to read messages and don't know what is fuss about here.  I just rented apartment (maybe for year) with great views.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

Edited to add: It is a blessing for you that this thread exists on Linden Lab's official forum as if this had appeared on some of the external fora, you'd be seeing responses from some that come far closer to your perceptions.

Oh how I miss reading SL Universe's forums. As you say even if he didn't post on their forums it would have been a hoot to read the reaction thread on those forums to this one.

As to the NDA thing, sure maybe for a TPV but for something like this I highly doubt it.

Edited by Drayke Newall

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