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5 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

The problem is, that many ppl are assuming a lot, and are basing their thinking on that. Fact is, I just had another chat with Dhehan, and she laid it all out to me. As I told Fiona, it's not my place to explain things, save to say I'm now re-assured that what she's doing is completely legal, and fully inside the TOS, and in no danger of ever deemed murky business. :) 

It's been that way through the whole thread. That's just how some humans are.

People make erroneous assumptions about me and things I say and do every day. All. day. long. Not easy to deal with but you get through it.

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4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It's been that way through the whole thread. That's just how some humans are.

People make erroneous assumptions about me and things I say and do every day. All. day. long. Not easy to deal with but you get through it.

The written word is by nature imprecise though. It's not ideal, but misunderstandings and erroneous assumptions are inevitable. All we can do is smile, and if the mistake was made in good faith (as they usually are) then correct the problem graciously.

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1 minute ago, AyelaNewLife said:

"Everything is fine but I'm not going to tell you how or why everything is fine instead you just need to trust me" is a pretty terrible line of thinking. And it just gives off the impression that you're talking out of your backside and don't actually understand what is going on here.

If you genuinely understood that the sim comprised of one full, discounted region and four undiscounted homesteads, then you would have said so a dozen pages ago. Instead you made wild accusations about people trying to smear Hangars Liquides, and other nonsensical ramblings. It's not a good look.

 

You must really stop with all this hateful vitriol. It's not nice. Truth is, you know sh*t. You all sit here, playing sleuth, whereas no one has even bothered to go talk to Djehan. Would it really kill you to inform yourself a bit?! And yes, you're smearing, and making continual ad hominems, and imputing all sorts of sinister motives to anyone, whereas you could be educating yourself a bit, instead.

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9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It's been that way through the whole thread. That's just how some humans are.

People make erroneous assumptions about me and things I say and do every day. All. day. long. Not easy to deal with but you get through it.

 

At this point, I should really just bow out of this thread, honestly. It's pointless, and waaaay too toxic for my usual level of comfort. If anyone wants to know what's truly up, just talk to Djehan. She's very friendly, and doesn't bite. :) 

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Just now, kiramanell said:

You must really stop with all this hateful vitriol. It's not nice. Truth is, you know sh*t. You all sit here, playing sleuth, whereas no one has even bothered to go talk to Djehan. Would it really kill you to inform yourself a bit?! And yes, you're smearing, and making continual ad hominems, and imputing all sorts of sinister motives to anyone, whereas you could be educating yourself a bit, instead.

What's easier? For every single person posting and reading this thread to individually convo Djehan and separately ask how renting out "5 regions" is compatible with the non-profit discount? Or for any one of the people who claim to have already had that conversation to post "it's 1 discounted region and 4 undiscounted rental homesteads"?

Especially when those "in the know" have spent half of this thread trying to convince everyone that because Hangars Liquides is a special RL non-profit it can claim the discount despite renting, which isn't what is happening here. I tried to "inform myself" by reading the posts made by supporters of the sim, only to find that they were both outright incorrect and openly hostile to anyone with questions.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

You must really stop with all this hateful vitriol. It's not nice. Truth is, you know sh*t. You all sit here, playing sleuth, whereas no one has even bothered to go talk to Djehan. Would it really kill you to inform yourself a bit?! And yes, you're smearing, and making continual ad hominems, and imputing all sorts of sinister motives to anyone, whereas you could be educating yourself a bit, instead.

While it is all well and good that you know what is going on and blame others for spreading hate etc., I find it most interesting that we have to personally contact Djehan to find out how they are doing this, when we have the self declared spokesman for HL Lawrence in this thread, which he could easily clear things up by telling us how they are doing this. Not to throw abuse but to see if others can benefit from it.

Why are you, Lawrence and others constantly saying it is not your position to say how this is being done. Good grief, surely a way in which other non-profit organizations could benefit from something like this in SL is a good thing. Why is it however, in this thread, it is being treated like a state secret from the cold war that needs to be protected at all cost unless you ask only one person to divulge the info if you have clearance?

Edit: damn it Ayela beat me to it. Why isn't reply auto notification working today for me >_>

Edited by Drayke Newall
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Just now, AyelaNewLife said:

What's easier? For every single person posting and reading this thread to individually convo Djehan and separately ask how renting out "5 regions" is compatible with the non-profit discount? Or for any one of the people who claim to have already had that conversation to post "it's 1 discounted region and 4 undiscounted rental homesteads"?

Especially when those "in the know" have spent half of this thread trying to convince everyone that because Hangars Liquides is a special RL non-profit it can claim the discount despite renting, which isn't what is happening here. I tried to "inform myself" by reading the posts made by supporters of the sim, only to find that they were both outright incorrect and openly hostile to anyone with questions.

 

As I said earlier, were I in her shoes, I'd likely come out and set the record straight myself. But I'm not her, and not in any way officially affiliated with HL. And my knowledge of NPO's is rather limited. I think Lawrence is officially involved, though, and of course Djehan herself. So, if they feel like doing so, they should explain matters themselves. All I'm saying is, the truth actually IS out there, and to be had if one were to talk to ppl of HL themselves.

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30 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

The written word is by nature imprecise though. It's not ideal, but misunderstandings and erroneous assumptions are inevitable. All we can do is smile, and if the mistake was made in good faith (as they usually are) then correct the problem graciously.

I'm not speaking of the written words but of what is behind those words. The experiences, emotions and beliefs that are the driving force, so to speak.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

...the truth actually IS out there, and to be had if one were to talk to ppl of HL themselves.

Well we did. Lawrence revealed he was their official spokesman after I poked him about that - so you cannot say we didn't try speaking directly to them - he dodged the answers more than once and those actions were answers enough in themselves. Being an official spokesman I think he should know pretty well what he is doing there when dodging answers. Might be part of some nihilistic self destructive performance art though - which would be very Cyberpunk. :ph34r:

Edited by Fionalein
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27 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

At this point, I should really just bow out of this thread, honestly. It's pointless, and waaaay too toxic for my usual level of comfort. If anyone wants to know what's truly up, just talk to Djehan. She's very friendly, and doesn't bite. :) 

Personally I don't need to talk to her. I know enough about what is involved, from my own RL experiences, to make an informed decision. 

If I had the financial means to do so, I would get one of the small rentals, if it were a place I would feel comfortable occupying. I must have 'air and light'. A few trees, shrubs and flowers wouldn't hurt. If not and I had the extra, I'd just donate a bit.

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Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

Personally I don't need to talk to her. I know enough about what is involved, from my own RL experiences, to make an informed decision. 

If I had the financial means to do so, I would get one of the small rentals, if it were a place I would feel comfortable occupying. I must have 'air and light'. A few trees, shrubs and flowers wouldn't hurt. If not and I had the extra, I'd just donate a bit.

 

I hear ya. I got one of the small perks, today. Wish I could give more, but yeah, RL and all that. Not sure what I can realistically do with 60 LI, but it's more the thought that counts for me, really: just love the idea of being part of it. :) Trees, shrubs and flowers, you might not see too many of those in the dystopian city; but it's a big place, and I haven't even visited everything. (Or maybe I have, but got lost half-way thru 🤤).

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1 minute ago, kiramanell said:

dystopian

That's my point. Dystopian isn't my thing but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the artist and the work.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

That's my point. Dystopian isn't my thing but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the artist and the work.

 

Things shouldnt be too dystopian for me. No nuclear wastelands and such, but just the right amount of dystopian: dim, but still functional, Blade Runner style. :) Like HL.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Things shouldnt be too dystopian for me. No nuclear wastelands and such, but just the right amount of dystopian: dim, but still functional, Blade Runner style. :) Like HL.

These eyes are getting old and while they do still have a pretty good night vision thing going on, it doesn't work so well looking at a screen or oncoming headlights.

 

ETA: When I was young I loved driving at night because I could see even without the moon. Now... too much traffic on the roads at all hours so I avoid driving at night unless absolutely necessary.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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SL after mesh is not offering nothing new people get bored fast,many role playing places have very stupid rules,big places don't help,when we travel around sims we  look for green dots and rating,if you have 3 avatars like  i saw in Insilico 100s of times and 2 are bots? forget it, i'm looking for alive people like it or not is the way it is.Smaller places are the trend right now,why? smaller places concentrate more people, and people make the place enjoyable no big structures,plus SL capabilities are not right for many things,and not many people have good computer to render such big useless structures. Big sims are going to close fast this year and  i know, like i said before, we look for land rating and green dots is the way it is.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

while Djehan remained suspiciously silent

Wow, Fiona's magic is back. "Djehan remained suspiciously silent" Bam! And all the people who are not attentive enough will think "Hey! This Djehan has something to hide!" What a trick! You're so clever and subtle. Let me answer you about that one: Djehan, as you may have guessed from the thread title, is busy saving the sim. She's talking to donors, to the press, she's even taking the time to kindly answer all the people visiting the sim and approaching her. Now Fiona, are you a donor? No. Are you one of the people who take the time to tp to Hangars and talk to her? No. Are you a Linden in charge of ruling over Hangars fate? No.

Why should she come talk to you? Are you the tribunal ruling over Hangars? No.

The only suspicion left, at this point, is why you put all this effort and energy in making continuous and malicious unfounded assumptions on Djehan Kidd and Hangars? 

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

Lawrence revealed he was their official spokesman after I poked him about that

And here comes again the smearing machine! You didn't poke me, you asked, with your usual class and kindness (Who the hell are you?) And I simply answered. 

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

he dodged the answers more than once

False again! I explained and explained and explained, and you kept going with assumptions. The only thing I didn't disclose (the technical problem) is one that involves LL and I am not going to give anyone the chance to smear a company that has been collaborative in a timely fashion. Once again, are you someone entitled to know? No. 

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections
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8 minutes ago, onix Velde said:

SL after mesh is not offering nothing new people get bored fast,many role playing places have very stupid rules,big places don't help,when we travel around sims we  look for green dots and rating,if you have 3 avatars like  i saw in Insilico 100s of times and 2 are bots? forget it, i'm looking for alive people like it or not is the way it is.Smaller places are the trend right now,why? smaller places concentrate more people, and people make the place enjoyable no big structures,plus SL capabilities are not right for many things,and not many people have good computer to render such big useless structures. Big sims are going to close fast this year and  i know, like i said before, we look for land rating and green dots is the way it is.

giphy.gif

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Once again - since it hasn't seemed to get through: Users asking questions, being persistent in doing so and even going forward with whatever information they have on hand is not at all an attack of any kind nor is it "hateful" or vitriol or any of the absolutely absurd crap that has been sling out.

Grow up.

That's about the nicest way I could put that and honestly doesn't even begin to cover the issues I have with how this has been handled so far. If there is information not being presented then guess what? It needs to be presented - be it by the creator or a designated spokesperson. And no, it has not been presented as of yet.

... This is not that difficult to understand, language/cultural barriers or not.

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Oh for ...

And with the more recent responses here, I'm not going to bother to try and help anyone understand the tone they've set nor how they happen to be coming across because it is fairly obvious that such users simply do not care - at all.

I do hope the place can continue to exist - in spite of the damage to its image some rising to its defense may have caused with their reactions, overreactions and absolute fabrications here.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

The only thing I didn't disclose (the technical problem) is one that involves LL and I am not going to give anyone the chance to smear a company that has been collaborative in a timely fashion.

And by that action you imply favouritism towards your region cluster - great favour you do them here ;).

 

Explanation: You imply we do not see the whole picture and you cannot comment on it - that leaves room to speculations - you actually kinda invited us to speculations... why drop those hints at all otherwise? Why no plain "I won't discuss finances in public" which would have been nonsatisfactory but less blurry?

Edited by Fionalein
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33 minutes ago, onix Velde said:

SL after mesh is not offering nothing new people get bored fast,many role playing places have very stupid rules,big places don't help,when we travel around sims we  look for green dots and rating,if you have 3 avatars like  i saw in Insilico 100s of times and 2 are bots? forget it, i'm looking for alive people like it or not is the way it is.Smaller places are the trend right now,why? smaller places concentrate more people, and people make the place enjoyable no big structures,plus SL capabilities are not right for many things,and not many people have good computer to render such big useless structures. Big sims are going to close fast this year and  i know, like i said before, we look for land rating and green dots is the way it is.

Is it bad that I read this in the voice of Alex Jones?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh for ...

And with the more recent responses here, I'm not going to bother to try and help anyone understand the tone they've set nor how they happen to be coming across because it is fairly obvious that such users simply do not care - at all.

I do hope the place can continue to exist - in spite of the damage to its image some rising to its defense may have caused with their reactions, overreactions and absolute fabrications here.

I am not a lawyer, Solar.

I care for the region as an SL-enduser not as a landowner/baron paying  full price, watching profits go down and is grudging at this non-profit, because land is still overly expensive after years of hardware and software upgrades. Discounts are not a ' one ring to rule them all' priviliges. There is no democracy in discounts. Discounts are at the discretion of the one supplying the discount. Discount will be given behind ' your back' . You can object ... you can argue .. but you don' t try to discredit the one receiving the discount CONTSTANTLY.

That just .. childish. And that' s all over this thread.

We care for the artist, coming from the underground with real world credentials and acknowlegdment, even from this company, and are willing to help her keep this exposition by donations ; putting our mouths where the money is, BECAUSE THAT IS APPARANTLY ALL THAT COUNTS.

And that , my dear Solar .. is in my opinion, SL' s detriment for the future, with this non-profit either paying the full price or not or other non-profits having all their statuses revoked ' to keep it fair.' .

It' s the end of real culture within SL

Edited by TDD123

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No one is "trying to discredit" the artist.

If you care for the artist, stop using such charged language to describe those who have asked questions or pointed out inconsistencies/tone.

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10 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Discount will be given behind ' your back' .

Thanks for confirming our fears ;)...

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