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36 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The fans were contributing by paying for rentals. LL said because nonprofit, rentals are no longer allowed.

Would you be so kind to supply a link ? I' d like to read on that.

PS  nm .. found it.

Edited by TDD123
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I see in the NWN article the assertion that it's a new policy that regions taking the non-profit discount can't offer rentals, but AFAIK that's how it used to be long ago, too, so was there a time when non-profits could both claim the discount and collect rent?

Historically, some nominally non-profit operations who got their regions at a discount would undercut rents from landlords who paid full price to the Lab. I have no reason to think that was happening here or anything, I'm just wondering what the policies really were, and when.

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8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

 I'm just wondering what the policies really were, and when.

I only know I found this : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Education_and_Non-Profit_Discount_Terms_and_Conditions

Which states : "The Discounted Regions must be used for primarily non-commercial purposes. For avoidance of doubt, Discounted Regions (or any parts thereof) may not be subleased."

I'm miffed about this 'avoidance of doubt' . LL could easily assert an exception to the rule. This non-profit had rentals to pay the tier-expenses. There was no profit made afaik.

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1 minute ago, TDD123 said:

There was no profit made afaik.

it's not about making profit, but enjoying the non profit rebate on the region maintenance costs. That rebate was/is substantionatly compared to the maintenance fee "normal" regions cost. For me quite understandable seeing rentals on non profit regions aren't allowed.
Not knowing how this developed on this specific case, but could be it's been in violation with the rules for quite some time.
 

 

4 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

LL could easily assert an exception to the rule.

they could, but all regionowners, landlords and whoever else owns regions, will contact the Lab for the same level of maintenance fees.

I have no idea what happens on that sim, but only seeing the pics here, it could raise some questions like "what's educational" there, just being a very great nice show place doesn't forfill the requirements to apply for that status.

 

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13 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I only know I found this : http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Education_and_Non-Profit_Discount_Terms_and_Conditions

Which states : "The Discounted Regions must be used for primarily non-commercial purposes. For avoidance of doubt, Discounted Regions (or any parts thereof) may not be subleased."

I'm miffed about this 'avoidance of doubt' . LL could easily assert an exception to the rule. This non-profit had rentals to pay the tier-expenses. There was no profit made afaik.

The English language is as squishy as a sponge - this could as well be read as "You must always comply with this rule and here is the reason why."

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4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's not about making profit, but enjoying the non profit rebate on the region maintenance costs.

OK .. that' s covered with "  Any accredited educational institution or organization with a 501(c)(3) charitable non-profit tax status is eligible for a discount. "  Since the sim has been running for 14 years, I' m just gonna assume all requirements for the discount were met.

 

6 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

I have no idea what happens on that sim, but only seeing the pics here, it could raise some questions like "what's educational" there, just being a very great nice show place doesn't forfill the requirements to apply for that status.

Then go ahead and visit it. It' s perhaps not educational to the bone, but it' s certainly an artform that should be preserved for years to come.

If educational sims would have these standards in b uildling, SL would be the learning university they want(ed) to be. Would at least contribute to a whole different experience to learn from.

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1 hour ago, TDD123 said:

These scenes are gorgeous here. Would be such a shame to wreck this just because of policy. Why not kill off a whole lot of fugly mainland first ?

I don' t get that LL just kills all of this off.

HL_005.png

HL_006.png

Why don't you get your wallet out and pay the region fees for a few years?

If it's such a great place it's a small price to pay don't you think?

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1 minute ago, Fionalein said:

The English language is as squishy as a sponge - this could as well be read as "You must always comply with this rule and here is the reason why."

Agreed.

Then again there' s also the saying : "To every rule  there are exceptions." Religious institutions RL can be excempt from tax. Why couldn' t this sim be excempt from tier if needed to sustain it ?

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12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's not about making profit, but enjoying the non profit rebate on the region maintenance costs. That rebate was/is substantionatly compared to the maintenance fee "normal" regions cost. For me quite understandable seeing rentals on non profit regions aren't allowed.
Not knowing how this developed on this specific case, but could be it's been in violation with the rules for quite some time.
 

 

they could, but all regionowners, landlords and whoever else owns regions, will contact the Lab for the same level of maintenance fees.

I have no idea what happens on that sim, but only seeing the pics here, it could raise some questions like "what's educational" there, just being a very great nice show place doesn't forfill the requirements to apply for that status.

 

All good art is always educational, as it is to find ourselves in the presence of beauty. 

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1 minute ago, TDD123 said:

Then go ahead and visit it.

nah, not really my thing

 

2 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

If educational sims would have these standards in b uildling, SL would be the learning university they want(ed) to be. Would at least contribute to a whole different experience to learn from.

perhaps yes, but you see what happens with these things in this specific case again, as many before... it's not really carried by a organisation but by a single person, and as soon finances get a struggle, nobody is at home... now you hear a few.."we'll donate" ... but that doesn't help, it needs structural streamlined income.

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1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Why don't you get your wallet out and pay the region fees for a few years?

If it's such a great place it's a small price to pay don't you think?

I' m not J.D. Rockefeller. And a few years fee is no small price.

Did you fall on your head this morning ?

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1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

It's easy to say that this or that should be safeguarded when you're not the one footing the bill.

Mainland has many empty regions just laying about there as useless as ever. Only with a few residing there, paying an inch of amount of tier, while the rest of the land is just barren and unused since ages.

These servers run anyway and LL is not reeling in money there like they should. This region can easily be sustained like that for preservation.

I don' t expect LL to give them an financial break, but at least upto now they could break even. Now they can' t.

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Sorry TDD but Mainland and Private Islands are - like it or not - two different beasts.

Also like it or not Linden Lab cannot allow an image to grow where any person can buy an Island/set of Islands, slap down (or truly create) enough to make a popular destination and then expect Linden Lab to take over when they cannot pay.

They make the rare exception, yes ... Those are exceptions however - not the rule.

Too many places have come and gone, they will continue to come and go.

Do I like the place (based on what I've seen so far)? Sure. Do I wish I'd found it sooner? Yep. Do I wish it would continue on? Absolutely.

I can want and wish all I'd like. it's up to the Lab to decide if this will be an exception and they have to think very carefully on that.

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I've been a renter/supporter of Hangars for about two years. When I first found out about the place I fell in love with it, and I'd hate to see a 12 year old sim just disappear. Djehan built that place from scratch, it doesn't matter if you don't like cyberpunk, or you've never heard of it, and the rentals alone are not enough to sustain the place to pay tier. So maybe instead of going back and forth about the rules and trivial irrelevant comments that have nothing to do with the subject at hand, go see for yourself. And a thank you to those who are doing what they can to help. 

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This keeps happening to large French sims built by cultural organizations. There was a full-scale Versailles in SL at one time, but the tier was too much. So it's gone.

Can Hangars Liquides be saved into an Open Simulator sim? It's a shame to lose this.

I've been there many times. I've explored, taken friends there, and even brought in a motorcycle to drive around the ramps.

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I don't think I have been there before or if I had I didn't spend long there because the scale of it whilst immersive is also bewildering.

Spent 30 minutes exploring it again and it is undoubtedly a work of art. Despite all its complexity it is well optimised, I had none of my usual problems with textures and objects not bothering to load. It is a fine example of what is possible to do here.

I would have made a donation to keep it going, but it seems past that point now. Such a shame and frustrating these get your attention when it all seems too late. I hope it can be preserved in some form

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