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1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

thank you

had you said this at the start then people would not have had to wonder what the plan is going forward

You're most welcome. I tend to consider a given that we operate legally and everyone should.

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1 minute ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

You're most welcome. I tend to consider a given that we operate legally and everyone should.

Pro tip free of counceling charge : If you keep repeating the "we operate legally" like a parrot even when not asked for ... no one will believe you ;)

 

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3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

You simply don't get it. It is not their rallying - more power to them if they rally for a good cause. It is because of the way they rally. They called everything else inferior.

When this was first published I was hoping for HL to stay on the grid - but then they produced so much vitriol that I could not care less if they left the grid and took the agressive part of their supporters with them - I'd actually welcome it.

What thread are you reading?

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

What thread are you reading?

this one?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Pro tip free of counceling charge : If you keep repeating the "we operate legally" like a parrot even when not asked for ... no one will believe you ;)

 

Thanks for the tip, no way I will say something different from what we actually do. I also do not speak as a parrot. My free tip for you is refraining from insulting people in next posts. Thank you

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

You're most welcome. I tend to consider a given that we operate legally and everyone should.

when dealing with the public then is always good to state the obvious. When we don't then people have to guess at what the public relations officer understands is a given. The Tilia thread on here is an example of what happens when the public have to guess at what public relations officers understand

this said. I see that the immediate goal is 3K before 1 August. It would appear that you guys are on track to make this thru the fund raiser. So good on you! and I hope that you do meet this immediate target in the next few days. And that the larger goal of 64 annual contributors is not  an insurmountable target given the number of people on here and elsewhere on the internet who have expressed support

Edited by Mollymews
3K
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52 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

they got busted with rentals, that is explicitly forbidden on educational project sims.

Their new way is out of SL payment or donation and you get a place offered ...... whats the difference with rental? not a lot...

HL didn't get busted, as I previously explained. Donors apartments will be offered in commercial sims only. Hope that replies your questions. 

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1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

when dealing with the public then is always good to state the obvious. When we don't then people have to guess at what the public relations officer understands is a given. The Tilia thread on here is an example of what happens when the public have to guess at what public relations officers understand

this said. I see that the immediate goal is 3K before 1 August. It would appear that you guys are on track to make this thru the fund raiser. So good on you! and I hope that you do meet this immediate target in the next few days. And that the larger goal of 64 annual contributors is not  an insurmountable target given the number of people on here and elsewhere on the internet who have expressed support

Thank you Molly!

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Posted (edited)

@Lawrence Celestalis

... how did you move on from apparently not even knowing about the 1000 USD per annum rentals in the indiegogo campaign to having a technicaly legal explanation for them in such short time?

I have a hard time believing this. With that said I'm out of here...

Good Luck with saving the project!

Edited by Fionalein

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6 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

@Lawrence Celestalis

... how did you move on from apparently not even knowing about the 1000 USD per annum rentals in the indiegogo campaign to having a technicaly legal explanation for them in such short time?

What are you talking about?? I always knew that.

8 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Good Luck with saving the project!

Thanks for the wishes.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

pretty sure @Lawrence Celestalis had 0 reputation when this topic started 😛

I never engaged before in a thread on this forum. Not sure I will again :D

Edited by Lawrence Celestalis
Minor spelling corrections
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

A technical issue in this overheated thread would put LL in a bad light. We don't want that. You can ask them, and they will reply how they see fit. 

Although superficially true, this is either disingenuous or implausibly naive. If Hangars were dripping in, say, blood diamonds and rhino horn money, the Lab would feel itself duty bound to keep such customer information confidential. I'm guessing that's not the precise problem here... and it's not really anybody's business what is the precise problem, but the story so far has a gap and the edges don't quite line up. It's the kinda thing that can trigger a spell of the ol' evidentiary OCD.

If there's no commercial income generated by any region that benefits from the non-profit discount, everything should be cool -- if that was the problem. Now it seems that there was some other undisclosed "technical issue" -- an unrelated infraction? who knows! -- so that becomes a loose end. But ignoring that for the nonce, again:

If there's no commercial income generated by any region that benefits from the non-profit discount, everything should be cool -- but in fact there's a problem if any region benefitting from a non-profit discount is in turn benefitting regions that generate commercial income. For simplicity, imagine the discount were 100%, so the non-profit gets a free full-prim sim in the middle of a bunch of rent-generating homesteads. All the "atmosphere" is generated by that discounted sim, allowing the rentals to be uncompetitively appealing on the cheap. Other landlords would have every reason to object that this is unfair competition. Because it would be.

The thing is, this line of argument rapidly undermines the whole existence of the non-profit discount. The problem: Imagine the ring of rental homesteads are run by a wholly separate commercial business with a set of officers completely disjoint from the non-profit but who nonetheless contribute just enough money to cover the non-profit's discounted fees for their centerpiece region. Philanthropy at its best, right? Except this produces exactly the same market distortion, still using the Lab's non-profit subsidy to unfairly undercut competition. But how far can you go to prevent such abuse? The easiest solution would be to simply pull the plug on all non-profit discounts -- the direction the Lab took some years ago, one reason many educational regions moved to OpenSim back then, vanishing into virtual world obscurity almost as dismal as moving to Sansar today.

5 hours ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I never engaged before in a thread on this forum. Not sure I will again :D

At least three generations of SL forums ago, my own first thread did not go well. You may find it an acquired skill.

Edited by Qie Niangao
typo "magine" for "imagine"
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

At least three generations of SL forums ago, my own first thread did not go well.

I detect the barest outlines of a pattern developing here.

44 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...wonders how your last thread will go.

Mine will doubtless fade into the perplexed silence from which my first emerged, a voice  "dying with a dying fall / Beneath the music from a farther room."

So how should I presume?

 

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:
1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

At least three generations of SL forums ago, my own first thread did not go well. You may find it an acquired skill.

I detect the barest outlines of a pattern developing here.

56 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...wonders how your last thread will go.

Mine will doubtless fade into the perplexed silence from which my first emerged, a voice  "dying with a dying fall / Beneath the music from a farther room."

So how should I presume?

Qie's first thread did not go well, presumably because he'd not yet acquired his forum skills, but he had a desire to participate.

I have this fantasy in which we all go out in a blaze of glory, tossing our hard earned social skills out the window because we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore.

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52 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...wonders how your last thread will go.

Whatever it is, I expect it, too, will be about markets.

My first, ill-fated thread was an argument that Xcite should be required to open an API because it was effectively a natural monopoly due to network effects -- which it pretty much was, back then, and might still be today were it not for the first rule of customer service: Ignore them and they will go away.

Also, I expect it, too, will contain a typo only discovered the instant I press Submit.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 we're mad as hell and we're not gonna take it anymore.

94dd0-tumblr_mfr8ijye7s1s0jcwqo1_500.gif

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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23 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Qie's first thread did not go well, presumably because he'd not yet acquired his forum skills, but he had a desire to participate.

A lot of my threads don’t go well, so I commiserate.

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37 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

My first, ill-fated thread was an argument that Xcite should be required to open an API

Always the edgy one.

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5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

If there's no commercial income generated by any region that benefits from the non-profit discount, everything should be cool -- but in fact there's a problem if any region benefitting from a non-profit discount is in turn benefitting regions that generate commercial income. For simplicity, imagine the discount were 100%, so the non-profit gets a free full-prim sim in the middle of a bunch of rent-generating homesteads. All the "atmosphere" is generated by that discounted sim, allowing the rentals to be uncompetitively appealing on the cheap. Other landlords would have every reason to object that this is unfair competition. Because it would be.

The thing is, this line of argument rapidly undermines the whole existence of the non-profit discount. The problem: Imagine the ring of rental homesteads are run by a wholly separate commercial business with a set of officers completely disjoint from the non-profit but who nonetheless contribute just enough money to cover the non-profit's discounted fees for their centerpiece region. Philanthropy at its best, right? Except this produces exactly the same market distortion, still using the Lab's non-profit subsidy to unfairly undercut competition. But how far can you go to prevent such abuse? The easiest solution would be to simply pull the plug on all non-profit discounts -- the direction the Lab took some years ago, one reason many educational regions moved to OpenSim back then, vanishing into virtual world obscurity almost as dismal as moving to Sansar today.

yes agree. A funding plan on this basis would create a murky situation for LL were some of the regions able to maintain non-profit discounted tier status. LL will have to sign of on anything like this tho so it may or may not eventuate

the only thing that I can see which helps to shed some light on the Hangars funding model going forward, is that the 4 and 60 rental rates is aimed at raising $10,000 annually, which at full commercial rates is about 3 full and 2 homestead regions

so I think that whoever has developed the fundraising model is cognisant of what the murky for them could be in this situation. That they may have to go full commercial


a speculation. What else could LL do other than dump the discount ?  Speculatively, LL could extend the discount and open it up to everyone with provisos

suppose that LL were to grant an estate, where the regions were arranged as a contiguous area, 1 discounted region for every 5 regions, where the 1 discounted region is strictly non-commercial and forms a unifying center-piece/binding/atmosphere/gathering place for the other 4, then quite a few estates would I think be interested in this model. Whether the estate be educational/non-profit or commercial

whether or not LL could afford to do this at this time I am not sure. But it might be worth them thinking about it. As Belleserria is showing (and old mainland has always shown), there are significant numbers of residents interested in and prepared to pay for unified living, where additional binding regions are provided to them at no extra cost

it may be that the center-piece region doesn't have to be elaborate. Could just be a water sim or a park

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