Hangars Liquides is closing!

[Qie Niangao]

53 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

HL has been created as an artwork which took 12 years to develop, and it has been done with rl international art standards in mind. 

Coincidentally, Kowloon is celebrating its twelfth year in SL this coming week. Anybody who hasn't been to that region should stop in and look around. That was the state of the art twelve years ago.

I'd also suggest some time touring modern Japanese regions to get a little perspective on the state of the practice in constructing high density mesh urban settings in SL. Y'all can decide what's art and what's not -- don't make me post a Duchamps readymade to these forums again so soon.

I want to be clear: I'm all in favor of Hangars succeeding or, if it can't succeed within the rules, being preserved at least for occasional availability for however long it will still rez in future viewers. What I cannot support is rentals on regions that get non-profit discounts. That should never have been an option, and is a continued distraction.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

28 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Coincidentally, Kowloon is celebrating its twelfth year in SL this coming week. Anybody who hasn't been to that region should stop in and look around. That was the state of the art twelve years ago.

I'd also suggest some time touring modern Japanese regions to get a little perspective on the state of the practice in constructing high density mesh urban settings in SL. Y'all can decide what's art and what's not -- don't make me post a Duchamps readymade to these forums again so soon.

I want to be clear: I'm all in favor of Hangars succeeding or, if it can't succeed within the rules, being preserved at least for occasional availability for however long it will still rez in future viewers. What I cannot support is rentals on regions that get non-profit discounts. That should never have been an option, and is a continued distraction.

I love Kowloon! As HL, it represent a intellectually honest artist at his best, a great artwork with no compormise, no copybots or prefabs and no ripped texture whatsoever. It has been a sim everyone at HL regarded as a brilliant work and it's an outstanding example of what I would like to see more in Sl. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Miranda Umino]

14 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I am not mad about HL, I love it. Oh, same question fort you, if you like to respond

And working for  "Samsung, le Futuroscope, Singapore Airlines, JVC, Dynastar, Nestlé, KIA Motors, LCI, La Corogne, NBA, and Comité international olympique" ( i quote your own link , i have not verified the contexts )  is not working for corporations ? And Laurent Mialon can t pay his own business ? It s not credible

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Lawrence Celestalis]

46 minutes ago, Miranda Umino said:

And working for  "Samsung, le Futuroscope, Singapore Airlines, JVC, Dynastar, Nestlé, KIA Motors, LCI, La Corogne, NBA, and Comité international olympique" ( i quote your own link , i have not verified the contexts )  is not working for corporations ? And Laurent Mialon can t pay his own business ? It s not credible

You keep making calumnious assumptions about real life people, with the scope of belittling them and putting them under a bad light in the face of the forum readers. Not a street I would personally walk, but have it your way. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Solar Legion]

Oh for ...

Is HL a lovely place? Yes. Should it continue to be on the grid? That'd be lovely.

Stow the attitude and yes, some of those here trying to save it do have an attitude problem and it shows - quite well.

Users asking questions or being suspicious of some of the claims are not "abusive" - sorry, that is reality just as much as the rules that Linden Lab must follow along with the rules HL must follow to qualify for the discount they were getting. The reality is that that discount on offer is either going away and/or Linden Lab finally focused on HL enough to discover the rentals. Like it or not, they've classified those as making a profit - where that money goes or the reason for them being present is absolutely irrelevant - like it or not.

As for "off topic" comments: As has already been pointed out - repeatedly - you do not have any power to declare any comment on or off topic, that power belongs to the forum owners and the moderation team and there is nothing whatsoever you can say/do that makes this any less true.

Your real world work/personal experience is also rather irrelevant here: The only opinion/view that matters at the end of the day - where the sim content is concerned - is that of the service provider. They decide if a sim qualifies for any given program and they decide the criteria to be met. You can debate the fairness of such if you'd like but do not pretend your personal opinions outweigh what they decide.

Seek donations and alternative funding all you want to but remain civil about it. This means you do not make veiled/backhanded comments about those posting here or asking questions that you do not like or that make you uncomfortable/squirm. Don't want to answer? Then don't. Don't like what is being asked? Tough. The overall tone of some of the responses given by some of your supporters and even by the "official" spokesperson ...

Edited to add: It really is a good thing that this thread was made on an LL controlled forum system as the other two that exist to server Second Life (and other places) do not have rules in place that ensure responses are "nice" - being very blunt, if you'd like to see responses that actually come close to abusive ... Seek out the other fora. Maybe then you'll have a bit of perspective.

Look, I have no real dog in this mess and actually would like to see the place continue on. I like it. What I don't like are the attitudes I've seen here thus far.

Best of luck to the sim's owner/creator.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Solar Legion

[Lawrence Celestalis]

20 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh for ...

Is HL a lovely place? Yes. Should it continue to be on the grid? That'd be lovely.

Stow the attitude and yes, some of those here trying to save it do have an attitude problem and it shows - quite well.

Users asking questions or being suspicious of some of the claims are not "abusive" - sorry, that is reality just as much as the rules that Linden Lab must follow along with the rules HL must follow to qualify for the discount they were getting. The reality is that that discount on offer is either going away and/or Linden Lab finally focused on HL enough to discover the rentals. Like it or not, they've classified those as making a profit - where that money goes or the reason for them being present is absolutely irrelevant - like it or not.

As for "off topic" comments: As has already been pointed out - repeatedly - you do not have any power to declare any comment on or off topic, that power belongs to the forum owners and the moderation team and there is nothing whatsoever you can say/do that makes this any less true.

Your real world work/personal experience is also rather irrelevant here: The only opinion/view that matters at the end of the day - where the sim content is concerned - is that of the service provider. They decide if a sim qualifies for any given program and they decide the criteria to be met. You can debate the fairness of such if you'd like but do not pretend your personal opinions outweigh what they decide.

Seek donations and alternative funding all you want to but remain civil about it. This means you do not make veiled/backhanded comments about those posting here or asking questions that you do not like or that make you uncomfortable/squirm. Don't want to answer? Then don't. Don't like what is being asked? Tough. The overall tone of some of the responses given by some of your supporters and even by the "official" spokesperson ...

Look, I have no real dog in this mess and actually would like to see the place continue on. I like it. What I don't like are the attitudes I've seen here thus far.

Best of luck to the sim's owner/creator.

I hear you, and similarly I have the right to respond to uncivil claimings or assumptions based on misinformation and aimed at demonstrating that HL is tricking LL rules and are bad guys, when constant attention and hard work is put into always following the rules. People can be suspicious and still be civil about it. I have replied to questions and even brought up legal documents when some forum user brought up those of an expired company which sole scope was to pay taxes on record sales (when another user was suggesting HL used the status of no profit to trick the law and not pay taxes). If we talk about art, my rl experience I believe does count, as any other experience counts if we're discussing another subject. Once again, experience is nothing to be outraged by. HL estimators I believe were surprised by the constant hate posts aimed at an artwork they love. That said, thank you for your post. As I said before I agree on what you finally say: HL will either be preserved by LL, saved by its donors or disappear and its creator move on to other platforms. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Lawrence Celestalis

[Solar Legion]

How you choose to respond has weight and can often drown out the text of your response - remember that.

You may feel some are being "uncivil" or worse ... but that is all. That is how you feel and simply feeling that it is so, does not make it so.

Again, best of luck.

[Lawrence Celestalis]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

How you choose to respond has weight and can often drown out the text of your response - remember that.

You may feel some are being "uncivil" or worse ... but that is all. That is how you feel and simply feeling that it is so, does not make it so.

Again, best of luck.

If this is true, same can be said on how participants choose to post and how they perceive my posts: they may feel they're "uncivil"... but that is all. I will  anyway put more attention and care in my next posts. Thanks for the wishes, which are much appreciated. 

[Miranda Umino]

24 minutes ago, Lawrence Celestalis said:

I hear you, and similarly I have the right to respond to uncivil claimings or assumptions based on misinformation and aimed at demonstrating that HL is tricking LL rules and are bad guys, when constant attention and hard work is put into always following the rules.

If there were misinformations , it s in basing on YOUR OWN links . In one hand you give us your links to make advertisment on her  and in the other hand you reject them .

Where is your coherence ?

And  where is the uncivility you accuse the others ? It s a curious claim from you , someone  who has some difficulties to describe the civil issues

Anyway , it s sure that governement and fiscality won t care about some blogger or some wikipedia pages to know the truth

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, Miranda Umino said:

6000 dollars ? for a sim who cost 200 dollars ? are you serious  .

And of course , i don t forget there are french subsidies  , no ?

It's more than one region so that's $200 per region per month which for ONE region is $2400 per year. Three regions would be $7200USD per year. There's also VAT if it applies and other fees/taxes that have to be paid.

So that $6000 figure for more than one sim is not unreasonable.

 

ETA: For 5 regions that would be $12,000USD so she is only asking for help with half the amount needed.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, Miranda Umino said:

And so ? Eveybody can reduce the umber of sims 

And i count well , 5 sims don t cost 6000 dollars , specifically for "non profit organisations"

And why subsidies have been refused  , if what you have claimed is true?

And why all these groups/ or djs  in hangars liquides  don t help ?

The "best fans" of hangar liquides don t want anymore to pay the  project of 5 sims .

And it s up to us to pay ? 

Are you serious ?

MY RL other half is a DJ in SL, They don't make the kind of money you think they do.

[Miranda Umino]

6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

MY RL other half is a DJ in SL, They don't make the kind of money you think they do.

We were not talking about DJs on SL . Laurent Mialon was not a SL DJ , but a REAL producer 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Miranda Umino]

6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It's more than one region so that's $200 per region per month which for ONE region is $2400 per year.

For one year ..  Do toy need really help for ONE WHOLE year ? Its more that asking a little help because of closure

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Miranda Umino said:

We were not talking about DJs on SL .

He was also a prefossional DJ on the radio in the US in his younger days.

Try again.

[Miranda Umino]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

He was also a prefossional DJ on the radio in the US in his younger days.

Try again.

And he was manager in an international TV , too ?

And he has worked for several corporations too ?

And has he woned thre labels of music ?

And has he benn producer ?

Try again 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Miranda Umino said:

For one year ..  Do toy need really help for ONE WHOLE year ? Its more that asking a little help because of closure

There isn't a damn thing wrong with paying for the regions upfront for a full year. 

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Miranda Umino said:

And he was manager in an international TV , too ?

And he has worked for deveral corporations too ?

Try again 

Bye bye troll.

[Miranda Umino]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

There isn't a damn thing wrong with paying for the regions upfront for a full year. 

Yeah .. With this kind of reasonnement , why don t you asj for 30 years ? You could live until 80 years , with that 

[Miranda Umino]

4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Bye bye troll.

 . I am sorry , but why do you talk abour your friend who certainly has not the same real  life of Laurent Mialon ?

Don t you think it s totally irrevelant to compare them ? To compare a SL DJ with a producer real of music ?

 

Bye bye troll

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Solar Legion]

Do you have the real world finances of the person you are harping over, right in front of you at all times Miranda?

Rhetorical question: No, you do not. You are making a guess based on your personal assumptions concerning the income of people with similar jobs/titles.

You are barking up the wrong tree and are indeed coming off as trollish. If such is not your intent, prove it by altering your approach.

[Miranda Umino]

18 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Do you have the real world finances of the person you are harping over, right in front of you at all times Miranda?

Rhetorical question: No, you do not. You are making a guess based on your personal assumptions concerning the income of people with similar jobs/titles.

You are barking up the wrong tree and are indeed coming off as trollish. If such is not your intent, prove it by altering your approach.

I am sorry , but it s not me who has wroten his curriculum vitae  .

His cirriculum vitae is clear , and we don t write this kind of curiculum vitae when we are are unemployement

 

Your assumption  that he lives like a SL DJ is based on NOTHING . You can t even prove he has connected himself to SL 

 

Again a time : stop to troll and accuse others to be troll 

Do you know how much costs some material musical used in real performances ? Have you an idea , only ?  And an "organisation" able to give some real preformances to real people requests 6000 dollars to SL users? Don you think there is something wrong , there ?

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino

[Solar Legion]

1. I said nothing concerning any Real Life to Second Life comparisons
2. If you do not have direct, continual access to his finances then you can make no assumptions - period
3. Your overall tone and presentation are giving the impression you are not genuine with your questions - once again if such is not your intent, adjust them
4. As predicted, you went back to edit your posts and either added new/unrelated bits or altered them after the fact to make yourself look good - congrats, you've made your intentions clear

With that, I wash my hands where interacting with you is concerned.

Have a pleasant existence.

Edited July 19, 2019 by Solar Legion

[Jeny Howlett]

4 hours ago, kiramanell said:

I had a little chat with Djehan, the other day (in her HL group). Frankly, I have a hard time understanding how come she has to undergo so much ***** on this forum.  None of the rude detractors here has ever made anything even as remotely beautiful as she has.  None of you. Nary a one. She's truly amazing for keeping up with this abusive behavior alone.

Anyway, I understood it's more of a USA regulators thing, and has far less to do with Linden. But I'll leave that for official spokespeople to talk about, if they so desire. It's good, at least, Djehan isn't here to witness all the abuse levied at her.

this !!!!

[Solar Legion]

Oh dear, someone does not seem to understand how a forum works so I suppose I'll make it rather clear for you: My response is my own and has rather little to do with what anyone else prior has or has not said. You have now made assumptions based on your own - faulty - interpretation of what has been said thus far and of events/post order.

If you are genuine in your responses you will cease conflating people's responses or ascribing some motive/impetus that simply does not exist to the responses you get.

Again, have a pleasent existence. Your continued response is not required nor is it needed/desired.

[Miranda Umino]

18 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oh dear, someone does not seem to understand how a forum works so I suppose I'll make it rather clear for you: My response is my own and has rather little to do with what anyone else prior has or has not said. You have now made assumptions based on your own - faulty - interpretation of what has been said thus far and of events/post order.

If you are genuine in your responses you will cease conflating people's responses or ascribing some motive/impetus that simply does not exist to the responses you get.

Again, have a pleasent existence. Your continued response is not required nor is it needed/desired.

No , no . Your answer was linked with what it was previously said ..

In addition , it surprises me that this crowdfunding is not for "non profit associations " but for entrepreneurs ( indiegogo is for "independant entrepreneurs" if you didn t know it , as tne name tell it "indy " inside indiegogo ) , so for commercial activities

 

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Miranda Umino