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The Pirate DJ Treaty of Bellisseria

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11 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said:

 

 

In case anyone was wondering what happens at private Mole parties...

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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

In case anyone was wondering what happens at private Mole parties...

Sending in a covert spy for a closer investigation!
 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Needs more dance pole!

This may or may not be getting framed and hung on my wall.

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2 hours ago, hawksea80 said:

wants to hear this!

Since we seem to be at "good"  in here:

 

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I just want to clear up a few things since someone is going around spreading lies that Markus knew about the tip jars and didn't tell anyone else.

The Mole we had was Missy. Patch was also there, as were several other Moles. We were working on this event even before there was a Fairgrounds. At no point was the Tip Jar policy spoken to us, including after asking several times for clarification, and including my own support ticket which was answered by Guy, which was the same answer as everyone else who was asked previously, and they simply redirected to the Commerce policy of the Covenant, which is indeed also in place at the Fairgrounds.

None of us were paid, we all volunteered because we love this community and want to see it flourish.

We would have loved to have Doc put out a Tip Jar as he worked very hard to make our party awesome. I am glad some people tipped him privately, though even that was met with derision by people.

There needs to be a policy set in stone by the Lindens, and that policy needs to be for everyone and not just a single DJ at an event which contained many.

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This thread puzzles me a bit.  The only thing I see in the Bellisseria covenant pertaining to commercial activity is this:

Quote

Activities and items that could be construed as commercial and for profit by Linden Lab are not permitted in the residential homes and houseboats in Bellisseria.

Oh, and the covenant forbids ads intended to show up on the map.

I think the statements early in this thread about tip jars in the fairgrounds violating covenant may be simply mistaken; the fairgrounds are not residential spaces. The way I read the covenant, tip jars are not permitted in homes, and there is not yet any policy in the covenant relating to events thrown in public areas.  There may be such policy stated elsewhere, but I don't see it in the covenant.

I think the Pirate DJ group is doing a great thing, since I'm sure there are those who feel pressure when tip jars (particularly the obnoxious ones that announce the amount of every person's tip), are present.  I just think that if people want to use the fairgrounds for an event featuring their favorite DJ whom they can't afford to pay, it would be nice if tip jars were an option.

It could also be the case that a significant portion of Bellisseria residents may want to throw a benefit event in a public space, e.g. for RFL or Creative Park (Parkinson's).  Such an event would be impossible without donation kiosks.

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3 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

This thread puzzles me a bit.  The only thing I see in the Bellisseria covenant pertaining to commercial activity is this:

Quote

Activities and items that could be construed as commercial and for profit by Linden Lab are not permitted in the residential homes and houseboats in Bellisseria.

Oh, and the covenant forbids ads intended to show up on the map.

I think the statements early in this thread about tip jars in the fairgrounds violating covenant may be simply mistaken; the fairgrounds are not residential spaces. The way I read the covenant, tip jars are not permitted in homes, and there is not yet any policy in the covenant relating to events thrown in public areas.  There may be such policy stated elsewhere, but I don't see it in the covenant.

I agree, but here is the issue. Every time someone has mentioned tip jars, including a direct response to a support ticket, we've always just been redirected to that section of the covenant. Yes, the Fairgrounds are an event space, however, when a Linden (Guy Linden) quotes the section in the Covenant about commerce when asked, I am going to assume that applies there as well, no matter the type of region, especially since that covenant is in place on the Fairgrounds too. It is not a separate section of the Linden Homes Estate.

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43 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

This thread puzzles me a bit.  The only thing I see in the Bellisseria covenant pertaining to commercial activity is this:

Oh, and the covenant forbids ads intended to show up on the map.

I think the statements early in this thread about tip jars in the fairgrounds violating covenant may be simply mistaken; the fairgrounds are not residential spaces. The way I read the covenant, tip jars are not permitted in homes, and there is not yet any policy in the covenant relating to events thrown in public areas.  There may be such policy stated elsewhere, but I don't see it in the covenant.

I think the Pirate DJ group is doing a great thing, since I'm sure there are those who feel pressure when tip jars (particularly the obnoxious ones that announce the amount of every person's tip), are present.  I just think that if people want to use the fairgrounds for an event featuring their favorite DJ whom they can't afford to pay, it would be nice if tip jars were an option.

It could also be the case that a significant portion of Bellisseria residents may want to throw a benefit event in a public space, e.g. for RFL or Creative Park (Parkinson's).  Such an event would be impossible without donation kiosks.

I second this. Bay City Fairground performers have been allowed the use of tip jars. That is a Governor Linden owned area. I was told by Missy that the performers had the ability to rez out tip jars. I didn't even think to question that. We went with what we were told. I'm hoping she's not getting a lot of flack after this. She was a huge help and we will always be eternally grateful for her help.  As to "someone" telling lies. I said maybe the message got dropped from one organizer to the next, but I didn't know. I also said maybe policy changed or maybe we worked with different people which seems we did since you guys spoke with Guy Linden and we didn't. The Lindens and Moles sometimes don't always have the same message one to the next, that happens in every company or group. It's not a knock on them. We are after all playing a big game of "telephone" here. One person gets told something and in the mix and bustle of planning that message gets lost. It's not a blame game. It's not a slur. Stuff just happens like that.  Goodness knows that happened to us now and again in planning this. It's why we try our best to write everything down in our discord channel so that messages don't get lost and even then... they do. It happens. We all do our best and we move on to the next event having learned from the previous ones. Either way we wish everyone a very happy Slife and many many awesome events to be planned in the future. 

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I'm not sure I'd look to Bay City as an example, since there is no covenant and therefore no prohibition against commercial activity on any of the parcels there. 

At any rate, hopefully there will be official clarification before the next big event, so that everyone is on the same page. 

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15 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I which case Patches argument for no commercial activity around homes does not really apply, since there is no neighborhood 3900 meters in the sky. Above 2000 meters, basically anything goes, except don't ever set an item for sale inside your skybox invisible building.  Patch needs a better reason for no commercialization inside invisible low traffic skyboxes.

It absolutely applies and I don't need a better reason. 

You can not have commercial anything, at any altitude, except where we may designate it.  

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15 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Well... this certainly blew up while I was asleep.

Let me be clear... I have absolutely, positively NO problem with the Pirate DJs. I think you guys and gals are fabulous and I love what you're doing and how you're doing it!

I don't have a problem with a DJ who didn't know the rules coming in and earning a buttload as long as he truly didn't know the rules. DJs make money from tips... we all know that's just standard practice and I'm going to go on the assumption that he didn't know he was breaking the rules, or there was a special dispensation of the rules for this event that wasn't passed on to everyone. 

Let's not get out in the weeds on this and make it a "well if he can do this, why can't I do that" kind of thing. We all know perfectly well that the answer to than is just "No." Clearly. The covenant is absolutely clear on that. 

Somewhere yesterday there was a miscommunication, either from the organizers to the DJ, or the Lindens to the organizers, or the organizers to the Lindens, or the organizers and/or Lindens to the rest of the community to let us know an exception to the rules had been made for the ONE TIME event, and if an exception was made, that's okay.  

We don't have to make this a big deal, and it doesn't need to be a witch hunt. It's a question the event organizers can answer (and I probably should have gone straight to them. My mistake and I apologize.)  I understand that the organizers worked their butts off putting the event together. Things slip through the cracks and that doesn't mean it's the end-all and be-all of every thing ever. It's a learning experience for everyone who plans on using the fabulous fairgrounds in the future. 

Let's look for solutions instead of finger-pointing and assuming the worst. Perhaps a contract of sorts needs to be put together that is specific to the Fairgrounds? Something publicly available for the community to see, and that anyone organizing an event at the Fairgrounds needs to agree to beforehand? It could even be a stickied thread here. The rules, and then the organizers have to acknowledge them publicly in the forums? I don't know... I'm sure there are other and better ways.

I don't know that I have an issue with tip jars being allowed at big events like that, either. DJs work hard. It's not a matter of just turning on a stream. 

I just think that it's wise to get out ahead of this before we get too far down the road and another 4,000 residents have moved in with their own ideas of what is acceptable or not. 

And the end of the day, we have to remember that Bellisseria is the bomb-diggity from top to bottom and we want it to stay that way because it's a fabulous gift provided by the Lindens and Moles and we LOVE IT!

Thanks for this.  This is a good take on the situation I've read so far.  This is not the malice or huge ordeal (and I haven't read past this yet), that I suspect it is being made out to be.  Somewhere along the lines there was miscommunication.  Somewhere, at some time, someone came up with some sort of treaty that we had no involvement in, or were frankly aware of.  We can't be privy to everything going on out there.  In any case, I'm still reading through, but I wanted to call this out as a good response.

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14 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Don't give some people ideas.  I had that happen to the 1/4 sim next to me on a private island - except they started the stacked box homes at 100 meters, ruining any sky view for my sunset.  They never rented out a single box though, and left after a month.  And I moved after the first week.

I do plan on putting a loft skybox above my houseboat, and renting it to my alt for $1L/week.  I suppose that violates the no commercial activity covenant, even if my alt's home is 3500 meters up. :)

 

 

6ppaj1.jpg

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Ok, now that I've been through the entire thread, and I also have Missy's information I can see the confusion.  We were following, and with no intent to exclude anyone, our general stance on tip jars being permitted in other event venues.  SL16B is one of those for example.  SL16B is a non-commercial event, and has very strict language governing it, but likewise this is the one area of exception. 

Clearly we can't have nice things without the rule of law being thrown down, so going forward tip jars will not be permitted at the Fairgrounds event venues.  

Hopefully it is clearer now.

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Posted (edited)

Well that's unambiguous. And so...here's a graphic I was just working on for the Pirate DJs of Belli site I'm brewing up. Thanks for the clarity, Patch. Now maybe we can get back to creating and having fun together and let the Lindens & Moles focus on making more homes for new Bellisserians.

48228325622_4023370d2c_o.jpg

Edited by Kitten Kaos
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@Patch Linden

I don't usually comment on the forums because things tend to get out of hand rather kickly, but...

I've been to many events for the SL16B celebrations and seen the tipjars for the performers there. I don't think of them as business, but as a way of thanking somebody for entertaining us, and I think they should be allowed. That's the reason why I didn't see anything wrong with that tipjar at the Fairground celebrations. The Fairgrounds were given to us by the amazing Moles and Lindens to help us celebrate the amazing community Bellisseria is. There is no obligation to tip anybody, but you have that option if you want to use it. I must confess that I tip performers even if they do not have a tipjar, and if there is a tipjar out you can see how much money has been donated, so I find them useful.

Residents cannot set up a business on their land, no matter if said business is on the ground or 4.000 metres up in the sky, and I think we all understand this, or we should. The Fairgrounds are not resident owned, they belong to the Lindens, and they should be able to create any rules for them that they deem necessary. The only problem here, I think, it was one of miscommunication, Bellisseria and the Fairgrounds are pretty new, mistakes can be made, and are made, because nobody is perfect, and nobody is out to get you...

I, for once, would love it if I never had to think 'This is the reason why we can't have nice things.' ever again.

Hugs.

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14 minutes ago, Dreamer Pixelmaid said:

@Patch Linden

The only problem here

the only problem is that LL thinks residents are reasonable and self reflecting entities... surprise, most arent and only think about themself under a cover of communitysauce.
Many who throw theselves up as organiser are motivated by power.

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There may be other Dj's, but in most cases, entertainers or Dj's are paid in advance for the release. It would only be justified if it served a charity. It's the same with Bay City, and you get a gift for the donation, if I remember that right. In addition, someone who relies on donations to conduct an event should better keep their hands off of it.

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21 minutes ago, Dreamer Pixelmaid said:

@Patch Linden

I don't usually comment on the forums because things tend to get out of hand rather kickly, but...

I've been to many events for the SL16B celebrations and seen the tipjars for the performers there. I don't think of them as business, but as a way of thanking somebody for entertaining us, and I think they should be allowed. That's the reason why I didn't see anything wrong with that tipjar at the Fairground celebrations. The Fairgrounds were given to us by the amazing Moles and Lindens to help us celebrate the amazing community Bellisseria is. There is no obligation to tip anybody, but you have that option if you want to use it. I must confess that I tip performers even if they do not have a tipjar, and if there is a tipjar out you can see how much money has been donated, so I find them useful.

 

That was pretty much my position on it too. :) But Patch has spoken, and, far as I'm concerned, that pretty much closed the case.

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43 minutes ago, Dreamer Pixelmaid said:

I've been to many events for the SL16B celebrations and seen the tipjars for the performers there. I don't think of them as business, but as a way of thanking somebody for entertaining us, and I think they should be allowed.

Given that argumentation the stage designers should be allowed to put out tipjars too, same goes for the greeters ... see where that leads to?

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1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Does this mean DJ's can no longer say "Thanks for the Linden Love"?

They still can but they might have to wait for Patch or his colleagues to decide to hug them first ;)

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The "tip jars at Fairgrounds?" discussion was always secondary to the main OP of the thread, lol. But I'm very glad we now have a definitive, unambiguous policy about tip jars across Bellisseria. The question had been lingering across a few threads for the past couple months and left up to diverse interpretation. Thank you, Patch, for clarifying! 

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2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Given that argumentation the stage designers should be allowed to put out tipjars too, same goes for the greeters ... see where that leads to?

Before that idea gets in heads. None of our organizers were paid, we were all volunteer. No donations.  We wouldn't ask for them. We planned this event before the fairgrounds were even made aware to us. We planned it because people in the group asked for it back in May. Everything you saw was either created buy us or bought buy us. North and bebe made the turtle race and stage. I made the main stage. Mirah has a load of games. Everything else was purchased or dug out of our inventory.  I paid for the entertainment because I hired them for us all to enjoy. We enjoyed doing this and look forward to the opportunity to do it again. 

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