Jump to content
Zed Avedon

Its amazing how strong SL seems to be!?

Recommended Posts

Why is always the answer somewhere in these threads

Make sl more gamey.

For Penny's point 1

There is a few assumptions in that

1) That people like games will come when there are many better custom made games of any genre that could be done in SL

2) That the gamers that come would be a good thing....frankly I can do with out the toxic brats that are found in most online games. SL on the whole is a pretty friendly place

3) That gamers, a group notorious for hopping from game to game like locusts would hang around

 

As for point 2 Its ugly

Well no SL isnt ugly and where it is, well thats mainly down to the residents itself. The only place you have a point is the linden builds

For point 3 It runs poorly

Well it does on potato pc's. Seems to run just fine on mine and my pc is almost 5 years old now with a graphics card back in the gtx9xx series you could probably buy my system now for around 400 maybe 500. SL runs fine for me even at ultra graphics, sometimes in busy areas I crank it down to high.

Point 4 I don't really have a view on, I have never been a content creator, never desired to be one either. Nor have most of the people I have met. I don't know what percentage of SL creates but I suspect its quite a small percentage. Better tools may well be a great thing but at the end of the day would it really bring in more people or retain people to a large enough extent to make it worth it.

Personally I think what the labs need to do is pick a time period and email a questionaire out to everyone who joined in that period asking why they stopped logging in or stayed logging in. Most will get discarded but enough would reply hopefully so that meaningful results could be collated. Then they should post those results and ask us residents for idea's.

At the end of the day we all have views why people dont stay. Until we have proper data though then its purely anecdotal

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Personally I think what the labs need to do is pick a time period and email a questionaire out to everyone who joined in that period asking why they stopped logging in or stayed logging in.

I've made a similar comment, except that it needs to be a personal phone call to get real info. Spamming SurveyMonkey links doesn't help much.

You don't need a huge number of calls. A good exercise for a company is to have each employee make a few such calls. That gives them a better sense of what customers need. Bill Gates used to take Microsoft customer support calls once in a while, to get a feel for what was bothering customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, animats said:

I've made a similar comment, except that it needs to be a personal phone call to get real info. Spamming SurveyMonkey links doesn't help much.

You don't need a huge number of calls. A good exercise for a company is to have each employee make a few such calls. That gives them a better sense of what customers need. Bill Gates used to take Microsoft customer support calls once in a while, to get a feel for what was bothering customers.

That is what marketing research firms, like the one I used to work at, are for. LL could get feedback from every resident, not just a handful here and there, which does not give an accurate picture. All residents need to be involved, not just some (or at least those willing to participate). This is one of many mistakes LL has never learned from.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

That is what marketing research firms, like the one I used to work at, are for. LL could get feedback from every resident, not just a handful here and there, which does not give an accurate picture. All residents need to be involved, not just some (or at least those willing to participate). This is one of many mistakes LL has never learned from.

After you've talked to a hundred randomly chosen users, you have most of the info you'd get from talking to 100,000. Depth, not breadth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, animats said:

After you've talked to a hundred randomly chosen users,

And received no answer from the 35 of them who are bots . . .

Although actually, that might be almost a useful thing to know.

I think a more targeted survey might be useful. Finding out why people joined up in 2006 is likely to be less useful than learning about the user base that dates from, say, 2013 to 2019. It's a very different online landscape, and real world, now than it was even a dozen years ago.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, animats said:

After you've talked to a hundred randomly chosen users, you have most of the info you'd get from talking to 100,000. Depth, not breadth.

No, you just miss details you need to have. You don't get the depth without the breadth.

 

We're talking surveys here, not focus groups.

 

ETA: Think Neilsen ratings. How many times have you ever been asked to participate in those? I've only been asked once and the questions were invasive so I didn't take part. The problem is most of the people who do, have very different ideas and tastes in what they watch from me. Very. Different. So the shows that I like and are worth a damn get cancelled while the fillers get the highest ratings. So Nielsen is missing out on a lot of information. You may have the opinon that info is valueless but what you think isn't the be all and end all.

 

ETA2: And I probably didn't explain that very well. Hopefully you at least get the gist of it and understand.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

Personally I feel the media attention drawn to so many different sexes now is ludicrous. That isn't to diminish or trivialise those struggling with said issues, but I worry more for the bigger picture. It saddens me people would rather get offended over 101 new genders rather than save a planet that may not be here to support us when we've sorted out our collective gender issues.

 

Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:
10 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

Personally I feel the media attention drawn to so many different sexes now is ludicrous. That isn't to diminish or trivialise those struggling with said issues, but I worry more for the bigger picture. It saddens me people would rather get offended over 101 new genders rather than save a planet that may not be here to support us when we've sorted out our collective gender issues.

 

 Isn't that exactly what you're doing?

As a Trans Ally, I’m offended. Thanks for highlighting the offensive bit. I literally wore a “Trans Rights are Human Rights” shirt at my LGBTQ church today. I swear, most of these “haters” seem to be trolls.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

As a Trans Ally, I’m offended. Thanks for highlighting the offensive bit. I literally wore a “Trans Rights are Human Rights” shirt at my LGBTQ church today. I swear, most of these “haters” seem to be trolls.

But how do we, in a way that is inclusive and not divisive, get to the point where the response to "Trans Rights are Human Rights" is "of course!".  It seems to me that as a society we've become really splintered by issues, and we get wrapped up in focusing on the issues that are most important to us as an individual (and being offended by those that don't see the same issues we see) that we forget that we still need to bring resolution for all these issues back together as part of the 'common good' which does need to as inclusive as possible.  If we splinter too much, we'll all be in our little enclaves without a common resolution even being possible - or part of anyone's vision - any longer.      

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

But how do we, in a way that is inclusive and not divisive, get to the point where the response to "Trans Rights are Human Rights" is "of course!".  It seems to me that as a society we've become really splintered by issues, and we get wrapped up in focusing on the issues that are most important to us as an individual (and being offended by those that don't see the same issues we see) that we forget that we still need to bring resolution for all these issues back together as part of the 'common good' which does need to as inclusive as possible.  If we splinter too much, we'll all be in our little enclaves without a common resolution even being possible - or part of anyone's vision - any longer.      

Easy- boost positive messages, openly disagree with negative messages.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, moirakathleen said:

But how do we, in a way that is inclusive and not divisive, get to the point where the response to "Trans Rights are Human Rights" is "of course!".

I think you've introduced the most important word into this conversation, here.

There is a healthy segment of our culture who, when they accuse the LGBTQ community (or any other community) of being "divisive," really mean "Why must you be so different? Can't you be more like us?" In most cases, these are people who are liberal enough to accept homosexuality, but who would really like gay, bi, and trans people to assimilate themselves to other aspects of heteronormative culture.

And, of course, there are plenty of people in the LGBTQ community who want this for themselves. They don't want to "stand out," or be perceived as "different."

But, of course, there are many others for whom those differences, the things that define who they are, are absolutely central. Such people are often treated as "divisive," when all that they are really doing is insisting upon their own difference, upon the things that define who they are. And for those differences to be meaningful, they need to be not merely accepted, but recognized and acknowledged. A salient example is the controversy over gender pronouns: calling people by their chosen pronouns is almost the very definition of "inclusivity": it is acknowledging who they are, and in this way participating in their expression of their difference.

That's what inclusivity is. It's not about insisting that everybody be alike: that's assimilation. We are inclusive when we recognize and acknowledge difference because we recognize not only the justice of allowing people to define themselves, but also the way in which diverse perspectives make us stronger. A poor analogy, but imagine a BIG project that involves design, engineering, construction, aesthetics, marketing and communications, and management, and that employs 1000 people. Well, you wouldn't hire 1000 engineers, or 1000 marketing experts, because you know that you need a diversity of skills -- differences -- to make the project work.

So, inclusivity ensures that "difference" isn't "divisiveness" but rather "diversity." And far from hindering us from dealing with the big issues, it is a vital part of tackling them successfully.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The selfish gene grows stronger, and although technology can bring support to those who are outside the binary "norm", it also rallies those who live by intolerance, bigotry and prejudice.

I've always believed in "live and let live" and that should be how the world is, unless extremism of any sort has to be challenged, but that's not how the world is. It probably never will be if history is any guide.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2019 at 10:27 AM, Mahala Roviana said:

You seldom, if ever, see Second Life advertised at all anymore. There are many people who don't realize it still exists. Surely LL can afford a small ad campaign. I occasionally see an ad on the blog of current residents, which is read mainly by people who have already signed up, so there's no point really. I agree that it would be best if the new homes were completed first and a few improvements were made, but a total re-branding and advertising campaign would work wonders, in my opinion.

This is an aberration of targeted marketing. Unless you have searched on "trigger keywords" that the Lab advertises on, you won't see ads for SL.

On my blog I sell space to Google Adwords. When I go to SL pages I almost always go via bookmark. After a time of not making any searches for an SL related 'thing' the SL and virtual world ads disappear from my site... well, stop appearing for me. Since I see my blog's homepage often I notice the change in ads appearing there.

I was just helping a client pick out a new desktop and researching prices. My site is currently filled with Dell ads.Take a look and see what comes up for you. Probably not Dell ads.

My point is that it is VERY difficult to know how much the Lab is spending on marketing SL without asking them. 

20 hours ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Can you imagine the oldie rage. No longer shall they be able to look down upon others who have not been in SL as long as they!

Lot of assumptions there... None of which I think are accurate.

8 hours ago, Penny Patton said:

If you want to improve SL's ability to draw in and retain new users, you have to identify what keeps people from checking SL out, and what drives away those that do before they get "hooked".

Penny makes valid points. But, are these the things that the Lab really should do? Or are they just Penny's opinion?  They are her opinions. I agree with most. But, if I were to be spending my money I would want something more than one person's opinion.

How many are aware...

I don't see anyone bringing up the history and information about the Lab's extensive, and on on going, A-B testing. Shouldn't those objective stats and experiments decide what is best to spend time and money on?

And there are numerous studies by serious eggheads paid to determine what actually works. Have you read Longevity in Second Life by Chun-Yuen Teng and Lada A. Adamic at University of Michigan?

I suppose this thread proves the point what we learn from history is we don't learn from history...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2019 at 6:39 PM, RaeLeeH said:

 media saturation that has turned sex, race, gender, nationality, and pretty much every other defining characteristic of what makes us "us" into not just political agendas but divisive issues. And I don't want any part of that.

Um, yes. In SL, by the way, gender is a floating point number between 0.0 and 1.0. What creators do with that number is up to them, but it can potentially be connected to avatar appearance, if there's enough of a market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

And there are numerous studies by serious eggheads paid to determine what actually works. Have you read Longevity in Second Life by Chun-Yuen Teng and Lada A. Adamic at University of Michigan?

 

"By far it is interaction with others, whether friends or strangers, that correlated most with long user life."

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about an ad campaign along the lines of "Who do you want to be today?" accompanied by dozen of diverse avatars (in no particular order, say: animals scampering around, anthropomorphic furries, faeries, daemons, vampires, happy families, fashion models, different gender expressions, cultures, races, ages and RPs, clubbers, creators, drivers, sailors, pilots, friends hanging out, romances, just a bit of everything. Cause that's one of SL's greatest strengths. With some ingenuity, we can find a way to express who we are and what we'd like to be.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

How about an ad campaign along the lines of "Who do you want to be today?" accompanied by dozen of diverse avatars (in no particular order, say: animals scampering around, anthropomorphic furries, faeries, daemons, vampires, happy families, fashion models, different gender expressions, cultures, races, ages and RPs, clubbers, creators, drivers, sailors, pilots, friends hanging out, romances, just a bit of everything. Cause that's one of SL's greatest strengths. With some ingenuity, we can find a way to express who we are and what we'd like to be.

Sadly not true, there appears to be absolutely no morris dancing in sl so the ad would have to be "almost anything you want to be"

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, animats said:

"By far it is interaction with others, whether friends or strangers, that correlated most with long user life."

^^^ This is probably the issue in a nutshell. I chatted to people almost from day 1. It's my nature to do that. This created connections which have lasted, ok, only just over one year in my case, but I look forward to chatting with, and hanging out with those people. So this is one thing (of several) which brings me back every day.

On the opposite side of this coin, while visiting what turned out to be a melancholy sim for the first time, I briefly chatted with a solitary guy, who was clearly lonely, and actually said to me that SL was no fun alone. I felt so sorry for that guy, but SL is full of ways to connect with people, and sitting on a deserted sim isn't going to provide many opportunities. If you are shy or not comfortable talking to strangers, then I guess it's much harder.

Breakfast Club is a great place to start though! :)

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Sadly not true, there appears to be absolutely no morris dancing in sl so the ad would have to be "almost anything you want to be"

There could be, if someone wanted to. It's just some attachments, animations and clothes. Most of it would have to be original, but that's the point. If you want to do it, you can.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

There could be, if someone wanted to. It's just some attachments, animations and clothes. Most of it would have to be original, but that's the point. If you want to do it, you can.

Once I had a go at Morris dancing........... Although it looks and sounds rather odd, it was such good fun. Ok the alcohol probably helped.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bows out of the gender/sexual identity/whatever term you least find offensive conversation this has become.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

^^^ This is probably the issue in a nutshell. I chatted to people almost from day 1. It's my nature to do that. This created connections which have lasted, ok, only just over one year in my case, but I look forward to chatting with, and hanging out with those people. So this is one thing (of several) which brings me back every day.

On the opposite side of this coin, while visiting what turned out to be a melancholy sim for the first time, I briefly chatted with a solitary guy, who was clearly lonely, and actually said to me that SL was no fun alone. I felt so sorry for that guy, but SL is full of ways to connect with people, and sitting on a deserted sim isn't going to provide many opportunities. If you are shy or not comfortable talking to strangers, then I guess it's much harder.

Breakfast Club is a great place to start though! :)

 

I joined sl on my own, but to establish a social network quickly I joined a bloodlines clan. Worked great and though I no longer take part in bloodlines I still have folks from those days as friends

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 imagine a BIG project that involves design, engineering, construction, aesthetics, marketing and communications, and management, and that employs 1000 people. Well, you wouldn't hire 1000 engineers, or 1000 marketing experts, because you know that you need a diversity of skills -- differences -- to make the project work.

So, inclusivity ensures that "difference" isn't "divisiveness" but rather "diversity." And far from hindering us from dealing with the big issues, it is a vital part of tackling them successfully.

Actually, to get it 'working' I would. Then sack some and hire the rest to sell it - which is why I am not allowed to be in charge of anything more complex than a whelk stand these days.

(and yes agree more or less with the rest that I nicked that bit from)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

Sadly not true, there appears to be absolutely no morris dancing in sl so the ad would have to be "almost anything you want to be"

That could be used as a positive marketing campaign ;)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 7/6/2019 at 6:39 PM, RaeLeeH said:

I get the point you're trying to make but speaking from my experience if I saw the gay and trans avatars I would probably avoid too. I'm hetero but my best friend is gay. I'm not by any means or shape homophobic and nor do I condone homophobia, and I sincerely believe that people of consenting age are free to love who they want. But I have to be honest; I'm drowning in well-intentioned media saturation that has turned sex, race, gender, nationality, and pretty much every other defining characteristic of what makes us "us" into not just political agendas but divisive issues. And I don't want any part of that.

EDIT: I'd rather see a wider array of options as opposed to honing in on one particular "area". Though that just takes us back to where we are now in terms of being too broad and ill-defined.

How did you come to that conclusion the media is 'well intentioned'?

When it comes to marketing SL lay people want to go with what they think and that is based on what they have heard and observed in their RL world and social circles along with their preferences, which color everything. The pro people go with marketing studies (not the egghead kind of study) and objective data. In the US the LGBTQ... demogrphic makes up between 3 to 5 % of the popuation and 11% that have 'experiemneted' with best estimates nearer 3% for those with a consistent preference of LGBTQ. But, almost every statement of these numbers comes from a single original source. The numbers for world-wide are unknown because of the distortion introduced by totalatarian governments.

Marketing-wise one would only target a corresponding percent of the marketing budget at that demogrphic unless your product or service better served them and ad dollars produced better results with that group. Conversely, if the remaining 97% of the market has an aversion to your efforts to target the LGBTQ demogrphic you must decide if you can target your LGBTQ ads well enough to not get in the face of the 97% or whether to reduce or forego those promotions. In the Internet age targeting is marviously accurate. If Google has done their job well, you as a straight person are not going to see the ads or at least few.

Of course we do have to deal with an ad manager's decisions, which are often not objective or practical. Nike made a decision that annoys a large majority of US citizens. I can't see that as a 'business' or 'financially smart' decision. I class it in the realm of politcal statements. The Lab has some of the same challenges, base decisions on what is best for the Lab or participate in some degree with social issues...

As to 'not wanting any part of that'... Since Plato's time the thinkers have known better,

Quote

Plato — ‘The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.’ 

I am not saying you are apathic. But, that addage '...good men standby...' If you don't like it, get in the middle of it and clean it up.

So, with catering to the LGBTQ community... I think it smart to assure they know they are welcome and provide information they can easily find as to what is avialable in SL. I also think that effort has to be kept proportional to the demographic they make up.

If one wants to avoid offending the LGBTQ peeps then why would it not also be important to avoid offending those in the other 97%?

Edited by Nalates Urriah
...some words I am sure were there, dropped out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...