Sims that ban new people

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

6 to 8 years old? They are some of the biggest arses on grid

Oh god yes.

The dreaded "Middle Childhood" period.

At least they're not teething anymore.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/childdevelopment/positiveparenting/middle.html

 

[BelindaN]

Oh I think it transcends even that.

One sim I visit says "no newbie looks".........You know what? The number of guys I encounter in that golden six to eight year period who are still not mesh.

Yeah I know, it probably makes me a mesh snob, but to counter that, I engage with them, and try to understand why they love their ankle tide marks and blocks of feet, and lack of any sort of realistic shape.

Some are nice enough but others fall into what I call "experienced vets". They've seen it all, done it all, blah blah blah.

The most charming encounters I've had with any avis have been with those in the one to two year zone.

That's my experience so far.

[KforCat]

As someone who had an old account then created a new one and became a “noobie” I think some sims are justified in having age thresholds. Some I use have 2 sims - one for everyone and one for more experienced people. It keeps it flowing in the restricted one better.

I also think that the shear arrogance of some players who have simply held an account open for a number of years is extraordinary. The terrible manners, vile behaviour and impatience towards newer players is most likely to put them off. They know who they are and they are part of the problem and nothing to do with the solution. Shame on them. 

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, KforCat said:

the shear arrogance of some players who have simply held an account open for a number of years is extraordinary.

You do realize that some of those "players" paid for a lifetime membership in 2003 don't you? 

[ItHadToComeToThis]

I have a simple solution for my sim which does annoy some people but still. I don’t allow in any avatars that don’t have payment info on file. The majority of griefers or trolls are using throwaway accounts that they don’t want to link their RL details to. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by ItHadToComeToThis

[Jerilynn Lemon]

6 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

I have a simple solution for my sim which does annoy some people but still. I don’t allow in any avatars that don’t have payment info on file. The majority of griefers or trolls are using throwaway accounts that they don’t want to link their RL details to. 

They probably have a primary (probably?...be real, they DO have a primary) and connecting RL info would be counter. They are aware it's a throwaway being created.

I was once connected to a region that tended to attract griefers (as young as one day old, so cute at that age), it got to the point of posting an age detector. Some went as far as using a name just booted, but attached numbers to the end to get around any ban (hence, age detector).

Everyone has their own way to deal with the trolls and griefers, but if payment info is required to get on sim is used, it hurts those who are most likely legit (but still young and stupid). I'm not faulting you in any way. If it works and complaints are minimal, so be it. I found age limiting to work fine.

[Fionalein]

On 7/4/2019 at 9:40 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

i think it's a very good thing to do, in fact for me nearly whole SL should be locked in the first week, till proven they can dress, move and rezz things.... and first 3 months no freenies or change to mesh

I could do all that late on day one - don't judge from yourself onto others...

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

 don't judge from yourself onto others...

if you read the whole line, the answer for fast learners is there too ..
 

Quote

till proven they can dress, move and rezz things

 

[Selene Gregoire]

3 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

if you read the whole line, the answer for fast learners is there too ..
 

 

Even so your suggestion is going to immediately kill it for most newbies. They will hit that little X, uninstall the viewer and never log in again. You can't restrict people that way and expect them to hang around. 

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Even so your suggestion is going to immediately kill it for most newbies. They will hit that little X, uninstall the viewer and never log in again. You can't restrict people that way and expect them to hang around. 

letting them in doesnt work either, thats clearly to see in the current figures

[Fionalein]

12 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

 if you read the whole line, the answer for fast learners is there too ..
    

And how would they be allowed to proove that? Right now you usually cannot access SL until you finished that obstacle course by the Moles - theoretically all you encounter out in the wild should know how to move - but some still don't.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Fionalein

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

letting them in doesnt work either, thats clearly to see in the current figures

My experience says different.

[Morena Tully]

Well.. One way to think of newbie restrictions (unrelated to regions age locking) is that when people log on to SL for the first time, they probably think of it as a game. In games, you need to progress your skill and knowledge to advance. In SL, you go straight to level cap. Soooo maybe there should be a series of tests fresh avatars need to go through. This is only a thought, and certainly will never happen, but it seems like it would be good in a couple ways.. First, it would engage a newcomer and give them something to work on, they'd learn things as they worked to pass the obstacles, and it would get them invested in who they are as their avatar. People who make alt accounts would breeze right through it, already knowing how everything works, but it might be enough deterrent for those throwaways who want to instantly grief. It's griefers who really are at the root for most age restrictions.

[Selene Gregoire]

Just now, Morena Tully said:

Well.. One way to think of newbie restrictions (unrelated to regions age locking) is that when people log on to SL for the first time, they probably think of it as a game. In games, you need to progress your skill and knowledge to advance. In SL, you go straight to level cap. Soooo maybe there should be a series of tests fresh avatars need to go through. This is only a thought, and certainly will never happen, but it seems like it would be good in a couple ways.. First, it would engage a newcomer and give them something to work on, they'd learn things as they worked to pass the obstacles, and it would get them invested in who they are as their avatar. People who make alt accounts would breeze right through it, already knowing how everything works, but it might be enough deterrent for those throwaways who want to instantly grief. It's griefers who really are at the root for most age restrictions.

LL already did that years ago. They changed it because people weren't staying any more than they are now.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

My experience says different.

usefull answer, we'r going to implement this today ..

[Morena Tully]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

LL already did that years ago. They changed it because people weren't staying any more than they are now.

did they? it must have been 2008-2010- or so when I wasn't here.. I don't recall anything more intensive than what they have set up now.

[Fionalein]

6 minutes ago, Morena Tully said:

People who make alt accounts would breeze right through it, already knowing how everything works, but it might be enough deterrent for those throwaways who want to instantly grief. It's griefers who really are at the root for most age restrictions.

Nope and they are useless, if I learned anything about trolls it is that they are anything but impulsive - the smart ones (And the stupid ones you don't need to bother with as much anyways) just create alts and let them mature for 30 days before using them for mischief... So much for age restrictions...

Edited July 6, 2019 by Fionalein

[Jerilynn Lemon]

2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Nope and they are useless, if I learned anything about trolls it is that they are anything but impulsive - the smart ones (And the stupid ones you don't need to bother with as much anyways) just create alts and let them mature for 30 days before using them for mischief... So much for age restrictions...

Sounds like what one does with a fairly fine wine.

Seriously, the age restriction worked in our favor. Those who were booted (NOT BANNED) would IM an Admin and explained the why's and how's of the problem. Most accepted the explanation and came back when the magic day arrived (31 days in our case). Griefing dropped dramatically and the ones who were hell bent on causing a ruckus were dealt with, likely going off to show their amusement at other regions.

There is no real concrete way to deal with griefers, one day old or ten years old. Whatever works for the situation is the better way to handle it.

[Selene Gregoire]

13 minutes ago, Morena Tully said:

did they? it must have been 2008-2010- or so when I wasn't here.. I don't recall anything more intensive than what they have set up now.

It was 2005/6. Definitely not after 2009.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

13 minutes ago, Morena Tully said:

Soooo maybe there should be a series of tests fresh avatars need to go through.

Yes. Men would have to prove they could put clothes on and remove their appendage when dressed, Ladies should demonstrate emoting a giggle without that infuriating gesture with the cackling baby sound?

Just kidding.

I'm siding more with those above arguing to let the newbies in because they suspect the joining spot isn't appealing enough to ensure joinup retention, but then it's coming down to a few things:

Mentors (already a thread about this, I'm all for it)

Staging areas at RP sims or clubs where newcomers can read advice and information on texture screens (Notecards don't really work as they get lost in all the other stuff welcome mats throw at arrivals)

Minimum age restrictions for sims reluctant to let brand new person in with a set of texture boards explaining why.

[Morena Tully]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It was 2005/6.

oh ok, so probably ended right when I started. Maybe they could revisit it

[Selene Gregoire]

4 minutes ago, Morena Tully said:

oh ok, so probably ended right when I started. Maybe they could revisit it

They won't. People complained it was too much or not enough or this was wrong or that was wrong. Which is what happens every time they change it. It was fine the way it was in 2004/5, it just needed a bit of modernization in the builds. That was all. But noooooo. They had to go and change the whole thing to try to make everyone happy. Which we all know can't be done.

 

ETA: Remembering it, it was one of the most fun, if somewhat frustrating, gauntlets I've ever had to run in a tutorial.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Raevyn Addams]

3 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

Yes. Men would have to prove they could put clothes on and remove their appendage when dressed, Ladies should demonstrate emoting a giggle without that infuriating gesture with the cackling baby sound?

Just kidding.

I'm siding more with those above arguing to let the newbies in because they suspect the joining spot isn't appealing enough to ensure joinup retention, but then it's coming down to a few things:

Mentors (already a thread about this, I'm all for it)

Staging areas at RP sims or clubs where newcomers can read advice and information on texture screens (Notecards don't really work as they get lost in all the other stuff welcome mats throw at arrivals)

Minimum age restrictions for sims reluctant to let brand new person in with a set of texture boards explaining why.

I agree with most of this. But generally speaking from my experience people don't read. They skim. They find the important part, or most relevant parts to them (if any) and ignore the rest. Then comes the bombardment of questions (already answered) to staff or group - if you even get those. That happens with non-noobs as well. People are just impatient.

Its worse when you're new; there's so much to see and do or explore and there's all these possibilities. You're not generally aware of the existence of restrictions or importance of them or even the possibility of ruining immersion as you haven't as yet had a chance to experience it from the other side. Granted there may be the rare few that do, but I'm generalizing. Few are psychic enough to drop into a new platform and pick our way through like an expert within minutes. And while it may be easier to adapt to a platform with a defined purpose (as in a combat game for example), new members run into problems because SL is so broadly defined and not uniform; region rules are not uniform across the board (ToS aside).

There are no doubt well-intentioned noobs who really do want to learn and absorb new information and be a part of RP regions or regions in general, but I can only speak to what I have seen. Running a RP region you see it all. You try and predict and place regulations and restrictions so as to not upset the flow for established members, but you don't want to completely diminish the fresh injection of new players. You can't please everyone all the time. By and large I'd even go so far as to suspect a good percentage of noobs were alts of members that had been booted for causing problems, or new potential characters brought by existing members with the intent to add to ongoing RP without the player taking the time to consider they don't need an army of alts to continue that particular storyline; just some thought and imagination.

I am still of the opinion age restrictions are a good thing, but that runs the risk of losing potentially good players/members. To me it's a risk worth taking if the pros and cons balance each other out.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

5 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

Running a RP region you see it all.

Oh yes, indeed! Although I suspect people running clubs will see just as much. After four years I was quite relieved to step down and take a break. I never had any age limits in place, just as much information up as possible, and several other enthusiastic helpers who tried a meet-and-greet to try and deal with those who didn't read or just skimmed. That in itself threw up a whole new insight into why people go round looking: some of them do not want to be given any personal attention, they're on a solitary quest and just want to be able to view in silence.

So in short, it's purely down to the temperament of the region admins. Age-limits and PoF works well enough of the short-handed, but I'm favouring the mentor approach.

[BelindaN]

My alts don't have payment info on file, because they don't need it. I give them the L$'s they need, or gift them stuff.

I did come across one location with a "no payment details" boot warning as an alt, but strangely it didn't boot me and I've been back for more photos and the same thing happened.

Whereas the newbie boot-out seemed to happen with no warning.