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Hello everyone,

We understand that there are a lot of questions in relation to this recent update. Please understand that we are actively monitoring this forum and looking in to providing even further information where applicable. While we look into addressing some of the misunderstandings, please be sure to read through the existing Knowledge Base article, if you have not already done so. We'll be answering many of the questions posted here in a post shortly, so please stay tuned.

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So this is from the Knowledge Base and might be pretty important to folks although I suspect that most cashed out a lot (happily I did) before the rate went up.  So don't lose whatever you have after August 1 if you are note willing or able to comply with the Tilia cash out identity requirements. 

 

What happens to my US dollar balance if I don't comply?

Your stored U.S. dollar balance remains on your account. We will not accept any process-credit requests until we have received and reviewed the requested documents.

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The whole thing with not owning the money in your balances is pretty standard. I sell books on Amazon and that money isn't mine until they send it to me. Amazon could terminate my account and keep it all without there being anything I could legally do about it.

Inactivity clauses are also popping up in other places, to deal with abandoned accounts. It's designed to drain credit from an account where nobody is coming back, rather than have it sit there unable to be accessed by anybody.

What I'm not a huge fan about is how inactivity is being judged. It's at twelve months of no activity, so I could see a possibility for a person with an annual premium account to get hit by it, because they renew just outside of the twelve months. Something like fifteen months would be better for safety (this is assuming that paying for premium is considered activity, which it really should be... if someone's paying, it shouldn't matter if they log in or not).

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30 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I"ve given my info to LL on three separate occasions. Perhaps Tilia already has my info because of Sansar. *shrugs* It is what it is. I'm just tired of sending it to them. :) 

Yeah... Tilia has been powering Sansar for a while now (if not always). But again, Sansar is a separate platform to SL. Ergo, providing proof of ID *directly linked* to your SL persona(s) avoids possible Chinese Walls.

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1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

Maybe this is meant to easen the transfer of in game currency between SANSAR and SL? It has been announced long ago... you know back when SANSAR was not yet released.

Mmm! I agree... I am thinking we are on the way to experiment the "fussion" of Second Life and Sansar as twin platforms with the same currency: the Sansar Dollar or Token. Could be the end of lindens as custom currency? Or, the financial actual support of lindens will be the basement of Sansar dollar and the reinforcement of the virtual project. Read carefully the Chapter 3 of Tilia's terms and conditions. Is more "easy" to do that as a first step instead and against the technical difficulties to merge both 3D virtual platforms, the more hard challenge. 

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4 minutes ago, Inara Pey said:

Yeah... Tilia has been powering Sansar for a while now (if not always). But again, Sansar is a separate platform to SL. Ergo, providing proof of ID *directly linked* to your SL persona(s) avoids possible Chinese Walls.

I've given them the info for my SL accounts, my Sansar account, and once when I won a contest in Sansar. It's not like it's really a big deal except that when they keep asking for it, it makes me wonder how many different places do they have the information stored in. The more places the less secure it seems to me. But at this point it's just speculation. If I have to submit it again, I will, but it will nag at me. 

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2 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

In the Featured news there is this article:- https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/2577-important-changes-to-your-second-life-account-introducing-tilia/ which in brief announces that from 1st August your USD transactions are to be handled by Tilia, a specially created subsidiary.  All the details are in the article.

A problem for some will be to provide identification required in order to process credit.  I'm not a US citizen so I'd have to obtain a passport just for this purpose.  I never do process credit but I know many do.  How will it affect you?

Anyone remember that bombshell I was talking about not too long ago? Yeah. Bombshell number 1 just dropped and it's only the beginning.

To answer the OP's question, unless a miracle happens and I start selling stuff like hotcakes (when I finally get it done) I won't be cashing out at all so it shouldn't affect me. Even if I did make enough to cash out I likely wouldn't unless I was desperate for cash in RL. I'd prefer to put it back into creating and be able to rent a bit of land to build on. Even if I were desperate enough to cash out, it would take too long in an emergency type situation so unlikely to happen anyway.

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Even if I were desperate enough to cash out, it would take too long in an emergency type situation so unlikely to happen anyway.

I cashed out Friday morning and the money was in my paypal by end of day Monday. That's pretty dang fast.

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I don't bother cashing out anymore either. But then again, I don't put much content back in.

If we don't need to re-send verification for keeping premium membership, then I'm cool. My husband, however, doesn't want to continue with premium if we have to delve further into dealing with Tilia (going through the wait to re-verify).

But I doubt the average consumer in SL is going to need to deal with it. Poor merchants, though!

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Thank you, everyone, for your detailed and interesting responses.  I haven't commented further as I didn't have anything to say but I knew there would be plenty to be said. 

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3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Even if I did make enough to cash out I likely wouldn't unless I was desperate for cash in RL. I'd prefer to put it back into creating and be able to rent a bit of land to build on. Even if I were desperate enough to cash out, it would take too long in an emergency type situation so unlikely to happen anyway.

I agree and I behave such way. I prefer use the cash, when I have it to pay the account or tier fees or reinvest. So, while cash is well administered I don't find a big trouble or pernicious effect with all this about.

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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

So how many people here remember the 

AUGUST 2013 TOS????????

I was mostly absent that year so I never saw it. :ph34r:

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One last comment from me doing Ecco to some voices ahead. I believe that Linden Lab and Tila (as subsidiary) not only can but have to cross the information without the signing or intervention of users already registered, since we already signed with the first one the terms and conditions. I understand that legally Tila need the consent with our signing but such "inner crossment" could be just a bureaucratique treatment without further effects. And, by the way, if you visit Tila, there are no way to sign the terms. And, within the SL account, in Credit details, there are not any way to do so either. I guess SL is on the way to add the necessary inside the dashboard to do and clarify all this.

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2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The LL blog post is missing some info that I think we need.

The Tilia TOS sounds like it might be set up to allow for interaction with multiple online services, not just SL. 

As far as SL is concerned, I can't figure out is Tilia is ONLY for process credit out, or if it also gets involved to pull money from your payment method for buying L$ or paying Premium and Tier fees.  Also, when you sell L$ and get a USD balance, is that balance now going to be sitting at Tilia?

 

@Linden Lab- Your blog post is not specific enough.

Not yet sure if anyone has replied to this yet but we have already been using the tilia all over secondlife. Marketplace purchases have been using it since they had redid how our purchases were made and the tilia is already on our accounts for those that have been cashing it. They switched it over when they had moved where we find the link for the process credit on the account overview. They're now just making it official and doing the last few steps of enacting it.

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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

Well I guess I got my email later than you guys OR you just read the new Knowledge base article?  I am going to paste in the (small type so it could be a single screenshot email that I just received as I know folks don't always get them. 

I pretty much think I am opting out of the whole thing (not SL I will still be here, but taking money out -- and I do take a fair amount out.  There is mention of a fee (doesn't look like the one animats was talking about with arbitration but a "user fee" for cashing out. HOWEVER I can't find any information on that fee UNLESS I sign up with Tilia. AND the TOS can change at any time and they will post on their website -- meaning we don't even KNOW what fee we are agreeing to and won't know if it goes up until it is too late in the future --- unless of course we check their webpage often.  So a lot of this isn't working for me AT ALL.

 

I feel very sorry for the folks that make their living in SL and NEED THE MONEY. Happily I do not.  

 

Anyway here is a screenshot of the email I received a few minutes ago -- for those that didn't get theirs.  Since I have no plans to close my store (well who knows what I decide but not at the moment) it will be a bit like me playing the "what would you do if you won a million dollars" game -- back when a million dollars was a lot more than it is now LOL.  But an adventure in itself.  This makes opting out of BlogOtex  because of the privacy rules bloggers were asked to agree to seem like nothing. And JUST when I though LL was making some progress with its citizenry.  

 

image.thumb.png.efb5799f51d3bd7b7fa8dd1ced419e9a.png

Interesting.  As of yet, I haven't seen an email - and I have 8-10 SL accounts with payment info on file, though only 4 are still Premium and thus subject to reoccurring charges.  Or did they only send the email to folks that have previously taken money out of SL?  Even though all of us will have to still agree to the Tilia TOS on Aug 1.  

I just happened to go look at the blog shortly after they posted the info.  Sometimes LL has the strangest ways of notifying their customers of stuff.

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I agree with Ginger ( "What irks me personally is the "accept our new toy or you can't play any more"- thing") Not much in the way of an explanation from LL about this either. If we don't agree with Tilia TOS, does that mean we can't use SL? I'm confused.

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1 hour ago, ananoelle said:

Id be interested in what exactly a virtual token is. Are they going to be the new currency? 

3.1.1. Acquiring Virtual Tokens

If Virtual Tokens are offered by Tilia in connection with your use of a Provider’s Platform, you may acquire Virtual Tokens in the following ways:

  • As part of a premium subscription (e.g., Tilia may furnish a certain number of Virtual Tokens to you each month if you pay for a premium subscription from a Provider);
  • From another Platform user for performing a service for that user within a Provider’s Platform;
  • From another Platform user in exchange for a virtual item that the user creates in a Platform (this type of exchange may occur through individual interactions between Platform users or through an In-Platform Exchange, which is described in Section 3.2 of these Terms); or
  • By purchasing them through an In-Platform Exchange.

No more L$300 per month instead we get a token or is this on top of the L$300?

Is this like a WoW token type thing?

Questions so many questions.

I think they have worded it this way so that they can later offer these same "financial services" to other online games - and also Sansar.

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44 minutes ago, Linden Lab said:

Hello everyone,

We understand that there are a lot of questions in relation to this recent update. Please understand that we are actively monitoring this forum and looking in to providing even further information where applicable. While we look into addressing some of the misunderstandings, please be sure to read through the existing Knowledge Base article, if you have not already done so. We'll be answering many of the questions posted here in a post shortly, so please stay tuned.

I like how everyone has just ignored this.

It's much easier to just freak out than wait for answers, isn't it?

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I am not cool with having to provide my SS# to anyone. I don't give it to the store clerk when I buy things with my debit /credit. I am NOT getting credit from Second Life so why do they need my social security number for me to buy lindens ?This just smells all wrong so after 10 yrs I may have to leave if u HAVE to accept this just to play.

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I understand that part of the thing is that you do not have to provide your SSN unless you are cashing out. Apparently.

I can say that I would rather stop playing SL than give out my SSN to LL. I don't trust their infrastructure enough to give my SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER to LL.

Honestly, my BANK doesn't even require my SSN and offers alternatives to it.

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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

So how many people here remember the 

AUGUST 2013 TOS????????

Boy was that ever a sh.t show

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

I like how everyone has just ignored this.

It's much easier to just freak out than wait for answers, isn't it?

I read the knowledge base ... and this quote from it is the reason I posted.

I have already submitted my photo ID. Why do I have to do it again?

The financial-related services that are offered by Linden Lab are now managed by Linden Lab's wholly-owned subsidiary, Tilia Inc. Tilia is required to comply with applicable U.S. laws and regulations. As part of our ongoing risk management process, we obtain, verify, and record information about our customers for whom we offer financial-related services. Your personal information will remain protected and will only be used for purposes that are outlined in our Privacy Policy, which can be accessed on our website.

 

If you look back not only have people read it but they've been quoting from it. And since Grumpity said they are reading the thread and pulling questions from the thread to answer I think it's a good thing that people are posting their concerns and questions.

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Welp.. there goes SL, tilia will kill it just like the other games it is part of, I will never EVER give my personal information to this piece of trash EVER! 😡🤬

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