Beth Macbain Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 "a good portion of 'the masses'" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said: @Chic Aeon reports that Linden Lab has been caught deleting users' questions about Tilia: https://ryanschultz.com/2019/07/11/linden-lab-caught-deleting-users-questions-about-tilia/ I'm really disappointed that you took this approach, Ryan. You know I hold you in high regard. So it's not easy for me to call you on this. Quoting from the official thread: Please use this space to ask your questions specific to the announcement and we'll continue to review and respond where we can. For general comments that are not in the form of questions, we recommend that you continue to use the other forum thread, so that the focus of this thread stays on direct questions and answers. Off topic commentary may be removed or moved from this thread. We'll also be holding a Tilia Town Hall event inworld in Second Life on Friday, July 12 at 1 p.m. (SLT/Pacific). For those who can't make the live event, we'll make available a video and transcript soon thereafter. That thread is there for a specific reason. Questions that are repetitive or not objectively stated may or may not have been deleted. The point is there are other threads to post in or vent as many have been doing in the guise of asking a question in the official thread. A link to the other thread is given at the beginning of the official thread. The information about the town hall meeting is also given. Please don't jump to a conclusion about the motives in regards to why some content has been removed from that thread. I do not for one moment believe that Linden Lab is using censorship in order to control the conversation as you stated in your post. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 As I mentioned over in the Q&A thread (inappropriately AF) I don't really think that approach is working out well, at least not in these forums. I don't know what would work better, to try to communicate answers and collect questions all in a tractably sized space. Adding paranoia about "censorship" though is definitely not helping anything. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said: As I mentioned over in the Q&A thread (inappropriately AF) I don't really think that approach is working out well, at least not in these forums. I don't know what would work better, to try to communicate answers and collect questions all in a tractably sized space. Adding paranoia about "censorship" though is definitely not helping anything. It is rare for such a Q&A thread to go well for any kind of Online Service (let alone a VW or actual game). People are suspicious of change and very quick to believe or invent almost any sort of ulterior motives or conspiracies - often whole cloth at that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 23 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Quoting from the official thread: Perhaps Chic and Ryan merely missed what you quoted in the thread. If so, then why make a big deal of it? People make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Perhaps Chic and Ryan merely missed what you quoted in the thread. If so, then why make a big deal of it? People make mistakes. Because they both wrote blogs about it and as such are spreading more rumors that are based on what .... a mistake? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Because they both wrote blogs about it and as such are spreading more rumors that are based on what .... a mistake? Was it? Or was it an answer without using words? Sorry but if this action created rumours they were self-inflicted. Edited July 11, 2019 by Fionalein 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Fair Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: That thread is there for a specific reason. Questions that are repetitive or not objectively stated may or may not have been deleted. The point is there are other threads to post in or vent as many have been doing in the guise of asking a question in the official thread. A link to the other thread is given at the beginning of the official thread. The information about the town hall meeting is also given. Please don't jump to a conclusion about the motives in regards to why some content has been removed from that thread. I do not for one moment believe that Linden Lab is using censorship in order to control the conversation as you stated in your post. Sorry, not buying it. How did they decide which questions were to be deleted? What is "off topic"?!?? Chic Aeon has been monitoring the situation carefully and blogged about LL deleting users' valid questions, why would she lie? But (as the tagline of my blog states) my blog is about “news and views” (viewpoints). What is going on with Linden Lab is newsworthy, and I do want to continue to share what I really think and feel about what I am reporting on. Otherwise, I am just a corporate shill, a PR parrot. I want to have the freedom to report on news and events in the evolving metaverse, to praise and criticize the various companies as I see fit. Edited July 11, 2019 by Vanity Fair 6 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanity Fair Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Because they both wrote blogs about it and as such are spreading more rumors that are based on what .... a mistake? I don't consider Linden Lab deleting users' perfectly valid questions to be a "mistake". LL did this deliberately. LL should know better. Edited July 11, 2019 by Vanity Fair 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) Nevermind. I'm not going to get drawn into a debate on fair reporting with you or anyone else. Just really disappointed. Edited July 11, 2019 by Blush Bravin 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) ( Lightheartedness injection ) Hmmmh ... Would be quite something if someone would get rich off of Lindens quickly, while selling pitchforks, barrels of tarr and broken featherfilled pillows in a region near to the townhallmeeting of Tilia and cashing out before 1st of August. Edited July 11, 2019 by TDD123 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiera Clutterbuck Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: debate on fair reporting I know. So much of the media refuses to agree with me, therefore they are not reporting fairly. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) "I know. So much of the media refuses to agree with me, therefore they are not reporting fairly. " Mr. President, Please only use your Twitter-account and refrain from statements elsewhere. Sincerely, The White House PR Dept. Edited July 11, 2019 by TDD123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said: Sorry, not buying it. How did they decide which questions were to be deleted? What is "off topic"?!?? Chic Aeon has been monitoring the situation carefully and blogged about LL deleting users' valid questions, why would she lie? But (as the tagline of my blog states) my blog is about “news and views” (viewpoints). What is going on with Linden Lab is newsworthy, and I do want to continue to share what I really think and feel about what I am reporting on. Otherwise, I am just a corporate shill, a PR parrot. I want to have the freedom to report on news and events in the evolving metaverse, to praise and criticize the various companies as I see fit. Well I had to laugh as when I tried to give you a "thank you" I got a "Sorry we are unable to comply at this time" message LOL. Since I and several others have both copies and screenshots (and many folks are making their OWN screenshots on posting and mentioning it on these forums) we KNOW that posts are being deleted rampantly. My comments -- for the people who read them - - - was NOT talking about the chatter or the questions that were repeated (AND NOT ANSWERED after nine days) and said as much. I agree that the chatter and off comments should disappear. It was about the hard questions that were asked in a quiet, sane and thoughtful manner and have not been answered and instead deleted. I really don't care about MINE --- I am looking at the overall picture. Perhaps the people that are saying everything is OK are not up at 2 AM when the moderators are asleep and they don't see all the long and thoughtful and IMPORTANT posts that have come and gone. If it was one or two? Not a big deal. But eventually even "I" get political (SO NOT MY THING). I hate feeling manipulated and I am feeling that way now. I am HOPEFUL that Linden Lab has some real answers at the Town Hall and I am grateful that they are giving out a transcript. And yes Hamlet you may quote me if you want --- if you get to see this LOL. CC screenshot 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Tabloid headlines and yellow journalism. Fear and sensationalism. This is how Trump got elected. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said: Blushed has a point. I *AM* cranky this week. Taking a break from my blog:https://ryanschultz.com/2019/07/11/why-im-taking-the-rest-of-this-week-off/ Take some rest. Don't regret saying you piece. If everyone was quiet in the face of adversity or unfairness we would be even worse off than we are now (this not only virtual). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyelaNewLife Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 (edited) Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the whole Tilia situation, Linden Lab need to seriously reflect on why they bother paying their PR team anything. The vast majority (but not all) of the complaints raised have been down to their poor wording of their initial announcement; and overzealous moderation at a time like this is akin to pouring petrol on the flames of outrage. It's been amateur hour around here, and the damage is almost entirely self-inflicted. Edited July 11, 2019 by AyelaNewLife 7 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Vanity Fair said: @Chic Aeon reports that Linden Lab has been caught deleting users' questions about Tilia: https://ryanschultz.com/2019/07/11/linden-lab-caught-deleting-users-questions-about-tilia/ 40 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said: Since I and several others have both copies and screenshots (and many folks are making their OWN screenshots on posting and mentioning it on these forums) we KNOW that posts are being deleted rampantly. My comments -- for the people who read them - - - was NOT talking about the chatter or the questions that were repeated (AND NOT ANSWERED after nine days) and said as much. I agree that the chatter and off comments should disappear. It was about the hard questions that were asked in a quiet, sane and thoughtful manner and have not been answered and instead deleted. 2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said: I do not for one moment believe that Linden Lab is using censorship in order to control the conversation as you stated in your post. 2 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said: It's been amateur hour around here, and the damage is almost entirely self-inflicted. THIS THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS One might actually expect a semi-competent PR team to, as Blush says, "control the conversation": that is what PR teams are for! And yes, that is a form of "censorship": controlling the narrative, manipulating the online "buzz" to your advantage, absolutely does attempt to shut down damaging counter-narratives. And we should be entirely unsurprised about any attempt to do that: LL is not a government, it's a privately-owned corporation trying to make profits, or in this case retain disgruntled customers. This is not exactly a new or weird thing, right? Every corporation with a public presence does this, when they package good news, or try to contain the damage from bad news. What's really weird about this is that they are doing such an honestly gawd-awful job of it. There is almost no apparent logic or pattern to the stuff that has been removed. And it's not just questions that have been deleted, but sincere attempts by residents to answer the sometimes panicky and generally poorly informed posts from people who have heard rumours of what is happening, and haven't bothered to read through the FAQ at the beginning of the official Tilia post. And indeed, so poorly presented and organized is that material, that its no wonder. If this is "censorship," it's a laughingly incompetent version of it; if it's "public relations," it's an utter disaster. It's like they want to be evil, but are almost endearingly awful at it. And in the final analysis, there's a chance that it will not just be LL and SL that suffer as a result, but everyone with any kind of stake in the ongoing health of the platform. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiera Clutterbuck Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: What's really weird about this is that they are doing such an honestly gawd-awful job of it. There is almost no apparent logic or pattern to the stuff that has been removed. And it's not just questions that have been deleted, The poor person in charge probably read a few of the threads of late and ran screaming....only to emerge from time to time to click a few things and seek safety. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Just now, Kiera Clutterbuck said: The poor person in charge probably read a few of the threads of late and ran screaming....only to emerge from time to time to click a few things and seek safety. That more or less corresponds to my mental image of this "process" (she said, laughingly). What I suspect has happened is that a few people have been delegated almost randomly, and without clear direction, to get in there and do cleanup. It's hard to believe it's just one person, so inconsistent is the way it's been approached. I honestly feel terrible for anyone who is thrown out into the line of fire to deal with this mess now. I mean, I like most of the Lindens who are likely going to have to deal with this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: as Blush says, "control the conversation": I was quoting Vanity ... I don't believe LL is deleting posts to control the conversation. I do believe they are deleting posts that simply keep repeating the same basic question or those that are in essence simply venting in the form of a question. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: I was quoting Vanity ... I don't believe LL is deleting posts to control the conversation. I do believe they are deleting posts that simply keep repeating the same basic question or those that are in essence simply venting in the form of a question. Fair enough. The point I'm sort of making, Blush, is that they should be "controlling the conversation" -- at the very least, in their own official thread. There are two different routes they could follow here. One is to simply open it up to all sorts of views and perspectives, and acknowledge and respond to the criticism that becomes public as a result. The second is to do what any competent organization with an actual PR team in place would do, which is to, as Vanity says, "control the conversation." LL is doing neither: they are failing utterly to contain the negativity, while simultaneously looking as though they are trying to shut down those with criticisms. And it's a really bad look all round as a result. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiera Clutterbuck Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 47 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: I do believe they are deleting posts that simply keep repeating the same basic question or those that are in essence simply venting in the form of a question. I haven't seen that much consistency in what they delete or what they don't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: It's like they want to be evil, but are almost endearingly awful at it. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. “A little bit pregnant”, comes to mind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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