Tilia takes over

[Gavin Hird]

1 minute ago, Parhelion Palou said:

All they have to do is point Tilia's logins to the same system they use to log into the SL website and SL itself.

 

Exactly. Or they could share the username and the hashed password (which cannot be decrypted). 

[Parhelion Palou]

Just now, Ginger Shostakovich said:

For a company which places so much value on user-created content, this "shoot first and answer questions later (if at all)"-approach tastes bitter. 

Some warning would have been nice, some explanations even better. 

You have to accept their TOS in order to continue using Second Life? No way to opt out of Tilia? Well. 

Welcome to the reason they raised the process credit fee from 2.5% to 5%. It looks like the US Government has added some new requirements that would affect SL itself adversely if the money handling was kept with SL. I'd guess it meant requiring everyone to provide proof of identity ... the way out of it is to move that to another company that's only involved in the part the gov't cares about.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Ginger Shostakovich said:

For a company which places so much value on user-created content, this "shoot first and answer questions later (if at all)"-approach tastes bitter. 

Some warning would have been nice, some explanations even better. 

You have to accept their TOS in order to continue using Second Life? No way to opt out of Tilia? Well. 

But we got a fair amount of warning, the complete overhaul will not be until August 1st. How is that not a fair warning? I do agree their explanation was a little cryptic, and maybe in the next few days, they will explain it to us. I do have one question though, I know here in Ontario Canada, that only employers can have access to your social insurance number(The equivalent to the Social Security number) How will LL comply with laws outside the US? Will they expect me to scan my ID? Will they expect me to send a photocopied version over to them, via snail mail. I am not gonna give out my personal info like that, until I know more info.

[Ginger Shostakovich]

3 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Welcome to the reason they raised the process credit fee from 2.5% to 5%. It looks like the US Government has added some new requirements that would affect SL itself adversely if the money handling was kept with SL. I'd guess it meant requiring everyone to provide proof of identity ... the way out of it is to move that to another company that's only involved in the part the gov't cares about.

 

That actually makes sense, if that's the reason they're doing it. But then why not just say so? 

"Hey guys, the Government need us to do this so we set up a new company. Don't worry, nothing much is going to change for Normal User X. If you need to get money out of Second Life,  you already provided us with all the info we need, and if you let us know that you are OK with the new co handling this instead of ourselves, that'd be cool." 

See? Sorted. 

[Fionalein]

@Linden Lab

Does that mean I have a temporary positive Tilea balance during limit buy and none with direct buy?

[Ginger Shostakovich]

2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But we got a fair amount of warning, the complete overhaul will not be until August 1st. How is that not a fair warning? I do agree their explanation was a little cryptic, and maybe in the next few days, they will explain it to us. I do have one question though, I know here in Ontario Canada, that only employers can have access to your social insurance number(The equivalent to the Social Security number) How will LL comply with laws outside the US? Will they expect me to scan my ID? Will they expect me to send a photocopied version over to them, via snail mail. I am not gonna give out my personal info like that, until I know more info.

What irks me personally is the "accept our new toy or you can't play any more"- thing. Yes, it's going to be another month until this is implemented. 

And speaking of non-US people, I think someone above already mentioned GDPR and how it would affect this new system. We're not all US citizens after all. 

[Fox Wijaya]

11 minutes ago, NeoBokrug Elytis said:

 as a registered money services business

but they deny that they are by stating they are not reliable for data loss and other misery when it happens at their side .. with that said they will NEVER get european permission to act as money service in any sort for the EU citizens.

[Parhelion Palou]

1 minute ago, Ginger Shostakovich said:

That actually makes sense, if that's the reason they're doing it. But then why not just say so? 

"Hey guys, the Government need us to do this so we set up a new company. Don't worry, nothing much is going to change for Normal User X. If you need to get money out of Second Life,  you already provided us with all the info we need, and if you let us know that you are OK with the new co handling this instead of ourselves, that'd be cool." 

See? Sorted. 

Who knows? Maybe the law requires them to keep quiet so the bad guys don't know about it (see Patriot Act). One of the Lindens hinted at it back when the furor over the process credit increase started. He said that it was costing LL more to process credits, and they might not be able to do process credits otherwise.

[Fox Wijaya]

6 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But we got a fair amount of warning, the complete overhaul will not be until August 1st. How is that not a fair warning?

it's not fair because they first tricked a lot of premiums for additional prepaid subscriptions.. THATS simply really bad behaviour, and should be refunded for them changing the rules.

[Bree Giffen]

So confusing. I need a flow chart to understand this better.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

ETA: Ok, so I'm confused. A bit. Does this impact the buying of Lindens for in-world purchases? I'm assuming so?

I don't believe that it does. I think it's directed toward those who process credit (which, in my understanding, is where you withdraw cash from your SL cash balance). I expect you are like me, and do not have a cash balance. You can check on your Dashboard under Account Summary to make sure. 

[Fionalein]

4 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Who knows? Maybe the law requires them to keep quiet so the bad guys don't know about it (see Patriot Act). One of the Lindens hinted at it back when the furor over the process credit increase started. He said that it was costing LL more to process credits, and they might not be able to do process credits otherwise.

Maybe it is the Lab pulling the good old "paypal is not a banking service" trick that only works in countries like the US

 

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Fionalein

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I don't believe that it does. I think it's directed toward those who process credit (which, in my understanding, is where you withdraw cash from your SL cash balance). I expect you are like me, and do not have a cash balance. You can check on your Dashboard under Account Summary to make sure. 

I do have a cash balance, but I am not an SL content creator. I upload money, that goes towards my premium payments. So does that mean it will affect me too?

[Fox Wijaya]

9 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Will they expect me to scan my ID? Will they expect me to send a photocopied version over to them, via snail mail. I am not gonna give out my personal info like that, until I know more info.

in europe there are "masks"for making a copy of your ID, all numbers that lead to possible recognition of personal data are not showing. That is the only way we are officially allowed to share documents with non government organisations.

[Psiberangel]

Begs another question...if they now have to be compliant with this new financial setup, can reporting transactions to the IRS be a part of that?

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

I do have a cash balance, but I am not an SL content creator. I upload money, that goes towards my premium payments. So does that mean it will affect me too?

I have no idea. It seems to be directed toward those who "process credit". 

[Fox Wijaya]

1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

So does that mean it will affect me too?

yes it does, USD balances are going to be owned by Tilia

[Chic Aeon]

Well I guess I got my email later than you guys OR you just read the new Knowledge base article?  I am going to paste in the (small type so it could be a single screenshot email that I just received as I know folks don't always get them. 

I pretty much think I am opting out of the whole thing (not SL I will still be here, but taking money out -- and I do take a fair amount out.  There is mention of a fee (doesn't look like the one animats was talking about with arbitration but a "user fee" for cashing out. HOWEVER I can't find any information on that fee UNLESS I sign up with Tilia. AND the TOS can change at any time and they will post on their website -- meaning we don't even KNOW what fee we are agreeing to and won't know if it goes up until it is too late in the future --- unless of course we check their webpage often.  So a lot of this isn't working for me AT ALL.

 

I feel very sorry for the folks that make their living in SL and NEED THE MONEY. Happily I do not.  

 

Anyway here is a screenshot of the email I received a few minutes ago -- for those that didn't get theirs.  Since I have no plans to close my store (well who knows what I decide but not at the moment) it will be a bit like me playing the "what would you do if you won a million dollars" game -- back when a million dollars was a lot more than it is now LOL.  But an adventure in itself.  This makes opting out of BlogOtex  because of the privacy rules bloggers were asked to agree to seem like nothing. And JUST when I though LL was making some progress with its citizenry.  

 

[Fox Wijaya]

2 minutes ago, Psiberangel said:

Begs another question...if they now have to be compliant with this new financial setup, can reporting transactions to the IRS be a part of that?

they already do that for many years

[Qie Niangao]

I've never seen so much ado about nothing.

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I do have a cash balance, but I am not an SL content creator. I upload money, that goes towards my premium payments. So does that mean it will affect me too?

As far as I understand the inactivity fee would affect you as well but you would not need to provide further ID... But who am I to understand that strange legal US text,...

Btw. Tilea needs seperate EU servers for EU customer data to remain GDPR compliant, have fun solving the constraints of international business, LL

 

[Sapphy Rotaru]

I am not a US citizen, I do not drive & have no passport! We also do not have official photo ID in the UK so how on earth will I qualify?

[ananoelle]

Id be interested in what exactly a virtual token is. Are they going to be the new currency? 

3.1.1. Acquiring Virtual Tokens

If Virtual Tokens are offered by Tilia in connection with your use of a Provider’s Platform, you may acquire Virtual Tokens in the following ways:

• As part of a premium subscription (e.g., Tilia may furnish a certain number of Virtual Tokens to you each month if you pay for a premium subscription from a Provider);
• From another Platform user for performing a service for that user within a Provider’s Platform;
• From another Platform user in exchange for a virtual item that the user creates in a Platform (this type of exchange may occur through individual interactions between Platform users or through an In-Platform Exchange, which is described in Section 3.2 of these Terms); or
• By purchasing them through an In-Platform Exchange.

No more L$300 per month instead we get a token or is this on top of the L$300?

Is this like a WoW token type thing?

Questions so many questions.

[Fox Wijaya]

4 minutes ago, ananoelle said:

No more L$300 per month instead we get a token or is this on top of the L$300?

Is this like a WoW token type thing?

 

L$ are the token for SL

[Parhelion Palou]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I've never seen so much ado about nothing.

I agree. It's really simple: the rules changed. Linden Lab is now required to get identification information in order to process credit to someone. They could have continued to handle that in SL, but likely the law was worded in a way that leaving the money handling in SL could end SL. LL worked out a way around that, but they still have to get the identification. At least it's not all of us who have to do it.

From the blog post: "We understand that there may be some questions and concerns about these new procedures, but these changes are required in order for Linden Lab to continue offering Second Life services without disruption to its economy." Think not being able to get money out of SL would hurt its economy?