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Just now, Ciarra Lexington said:

Whether or not this affects me personally, if it makes the creators leave, then my reason for being here is gone, too. I haven't been a resident for all of these years just to float in pixel space. It's the wonderful creators and what they've turned this fantasy world into, that have kept me here. 

It won't make people leave.

 

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Wow, 18 pages that pretty much are just the same posts over and over and over and over and......................

Apparently lots and lots of people come to the forums to post without ever bothering to read what has already been posted.

 

I'd have thought that LL would have made another post by now though.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ciarra Lexington said:

Whether or not this affects me personally, if it makes the creators leave, then my reason for being here is gone, too. I haven't been a resident for all of these years just to float in pixel space. It's the wonderful creators and what they've turned this fantasy world into, that has kept me here. 

It is possible that those that only cash out tiny sums maybe never had to give LL personal info - maybe only the people that cashed out amounts over some figure.  Now, anyone wanting to cash out will have to give Tilia the identifying info.  So maybe, some of the smaller creators that never cashed much out, might decide to leave rather than give info.  That will not apply to the larger creators though, since they've already given info.

So, very likely your favorite creators are not leaving.

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Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is possible that those that only cash out tiny sums maybe never had to give LL personal info - maybe only the people that cashed out amounts over some figure.  Now, anyone wanting to cash out will have to give Tilia the identifying info.  So maybe, some of the smaller creators that never cashed much out, might decide to leave rather than give info.  That will not apply to the larger creators though, since they've already given info.

So, very likely your favorite creators are not leaving.

I fall into the category of a creator who is neither small, nor been required to give the information Tilia will need. So people like me are left to figure out how to update our information so we're not stuck waiting for approval in August. Can we open a support ticket or something and start the verification process now? The FAQ seemed to imply we have to wait till August 2nd. What if they find something wrong with my documents after having them for weeks and I have to start all over? Could this process potentially take months to get squared away?

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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'd have thought that LL would have made another post by now though.

Well, kinda hilariously, the blog post now includes a link to . . . this thread!

@Garnet Psaltery, you're FAMOUS!!

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59 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

But apparently, Tilia has been handling the buy and sell of L$ for quite some time, yet didn't require us to agree to any TOS and LL has said that we aren't really impacted in any other way if we never cash out or even maintain a USD balance.

All true. Including that "didn't require us to agree to Tilia's TOS" part :SwingingFriends:

But now we are being given a chance to "agree" with the Tilia TOS which when read by several successful  business owners I know (so not dumb folks) leaves SL residents with -- one quote "I read the TOS from Tilia.   Essentially, any user of SL will have NO rights."  

 

THIS is my personal problem; the loss of rights -- even though I am obviously VERY hung up on the "why does EVERYONE need a Tilia account part".   

 

I still plan to "close my eyes and think of Britain" (a few folks will get that) and click through as I don't want to lose my account. I will not however be cashing out for oh so many reasons. Others are apparently doing the same. We do have THAT choice left to us.  We could of course leave. I have said many many times on these forums " their platform; their rules" and I stick by that comment.  I have made my choice which is somewhat of a compromise. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

But now we are being given a chance to "agree" with the Tilia TOS which when read by several successful  business owners I know (so not dumb folks) leaves SL residents with -- one quote "I read the TOS from Tilia.   Essentially, any user of SL will have NO rights."  

 

THIS is my personal problem

Yes, these are creepy conditions to work under and we have at least some rights in RL jobs.  I try not to think about it. I suppose they're worried about being sued.

Nearly every time they've made a mistake  (data loss, charging too much for a sim) they've gone out of their way to try and fix it though -- some Lindens have. I suppose there's a limit in what they can or will do to fix a mistake, and they want to protect this.

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There have been a lot of questions about our recent Tilia announcement , so we've created a new thread as a way for Residents to formally submit their questions.

Please use the new thread to ask your questions specific to the announcement and we'll continue to review and respond where we can. For general comments that are not in the form of questions, we recommend that you continue to use this thread, so that the focus of the new Q&A thread stays on direct questions and answers. 

 

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2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Theresa Tennyson sighs once again.

Or you could assume it means, "Since you've already given a different part of our company that information you consider it okay to send it across the hall to the people who are doing the same thing they did before under a different legal name" - basically, exactly what they just said.

HOWEVER you gave that information to a DIFFERENT part of the parent company with a completely DIFFERENT TOS.

This assuming you have read both --- is the answer to the question why people do not want this. I would PREFER to have all my personal information deleted from the Tilia server after I have cashed out for the last time near the deadline. 

 

And like others I am not happy with the login and passwords being the same so hopefully if we change our passwords in SL they will NOT be the same. That is another question that hasn't been answered. 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Dima Plessis said:

I fall into the category of a creator who is neither small, nor been required to give the information Tilia will need. So people like me are left to figure out how to update our information so we're not stuck waiting for approval in August. Can we open a support ticket or something and start the verification process now? The FAQ seemed to imply we have to wait till August 2nd. What if they find something wrong with my documents after having them for weeks and I have to start all over? Could this process potentially take months to get squared away?

Those questions about timing of providing info was one of the things that LL was supposed to get back to us on.  So, maybe, eventually, they'll get that info posted.

And LL just posted an update with a new thread specifically for questions.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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6 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

You're about as far off as you can get, besides the very first part.

  • Everyone will be given an account for the Tilia service.
  • If you deposit USD into your Tilia account and don't use the service at all for a year, your Tilia account's balance will be charged, not you.
  • You won't need to provide any personal information as long as you do not try to process credit through Tilia into your own bank account.

Thank you for explaining it in terms I can understand. I get lost in all the legal speak and instances and "if's" or "when's". I was in a right panic! lol

As far as this company demanding SS#s' that's going to go over like a lead balloon. In my country, the only "business" who can demand our number is the government. For all the people who will be forced to use this service, I wish you the best of luck and strongly advise you not to give out such information.

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39 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It is possible that those that only cash out tiny sums maybe never had to give LL personal info - maybe only the people that cashed out amounts over some figure.  Now, anyone wanting to cash out will have to give Tilia the identifying info.  So maybe, some of the smaller creators that never cashed much out, might decide to leave rather than give info.  That will not apply to the larger creators though, since they've already given info.

So, very likely your favorite creators are not leaving.

 

Small amounts could be cashed out without any special steps -- until the amount got to 600US (I believe that was the correct amount). Then, this was maybe five years ago when this new rule came into being, you got an email (if you were lucky; I did not) telling you all the steps you had to go to in order to get your US dollars to Paypal. If you did  not complete those steps to their satisfaction you LOST YOUR MONEY (in my case it was around 600 US I believe) and you didn't even know that was possible until after the fact.   

 

It took me almost a month to prove I was "me" to their satisfaction simply because I do not have mail delivery to my house in the town I live in. This was not in their "book of rules". Eventually after maybe six conversations and many documents sent, I pointed out that that my DRIVERS LICENSE had both addresses on it (physical and mailing) and they could see that was how the government did things in my little town.  It was one of my worst SL experiences (well maybe number four --- I've been here awhile). 

 

I agree that some folks that don't cash out much will likely leave or quit creating or as I plan to do -- not cash out any longer. I have heard from a few that is their plan.   But just being a "larger creator" doesn't mean things wont change.  I don't plan to work much in the future and others I know are already in that boat with me. 2019 has not been a good year for creators on the whole and this just underlines the "why do I bother" mentality. We ARE supposed to be enjoying ourselves --- at least I hope we are.

 

As an example, when Sansar change the cashing out rules about half of the "good" creators left there. It wasn't worth it. I will be taking down my stuff there very soon; I was going to wait until the end of the year. Everything was broken this morning when I tried to login or even get to DISCORD (not LL's issue of course) so that is pushed back a bit.  After the TOS changes in 2013 we lost about half of our really great artists -- and they never returned.   I am not suggesting in any way that half of the SL creators will leave; I don't believe that. But that things will be changing somewhat is a pretty good prediction.    

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12 hours ago, Gavin Hird said:

I am of the opinion the terms, as currently presented, does not meet the minimum requirements for a B2C contract based on EU law.

Your opinion doesn't count, unless you are a lawyer working for LL, Tilia, or the EU.

Are you?

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9 minutes ago, November Velde said:

As far as this company demanding SS#s' that's going to go over like a lead balloon. In my country, the only "business" who can demand our number is the government. For all the people who will be forced to use this service, I wish you the best of luck and strongly advise you not to give out such information.

What country is that?  In the USA, we are required to give our SSAN in many situations.  Most applicable to this current issue, it's routinely required when opening an account with a financial institution.  All financial organizations need your SSAN to comply with US government regulations on reporting financial transactions.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Small amounts could be cashed out without any special steps -- until the amount got to 600US (I believe that was the correct amount). Then, this was maybe five years ago when this new rule came into being, you got an email (if you were lucky; I did not) telling you all the steps you had to go to in order to get your US dollars to Paypal. If you did  not complete those steps to their satisfaction you LOST YOUR MONEY (in my case it was around 600 US I believe) and you didn't even know that was possible until after the fact.   

I am the very definition of a small time creator. At the time that I had to hand over my tax info to Linden Lab I had three process credit amounts, $74,  $449, and then $394 which triggered them requesting my identification before they'd send me the $394. So I can attest that the threshold for requesting the information from me was much lower than what Chic experienced. This was in 2013 by the way. Not sure if the time span affects it but just in case. These three withdrawals occurred over a 5 month period.

Edited by Blush Bravin
Added time reference.
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12 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I am the very definition of a small time creator. At the time that I had to hand over my tax info to Linden Lab I had three process credit amounts, $74,  $449, and then $394 which triggered them requesting my identification before they'd send me the $394. So I can attest that the threshold for requesting the information from me was much lower than what Chic experienced. This was in 2013 by the way. Not sure if the time span affects it but just in case. These three withdrawals occurred over a 5 month period.

I think the 600 were "per annum", and cashing out almost 1k from something many people just consider "some online game" within 5 months is for ME far from small time ❤️ you seem to do great ^^ ❤️

 

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13 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Essentially, any user of SL will have NO rights.

This has been true since the very first time you ever started up any SL viewer and clicked that little "I Agree" button before seeing the SL world for the very first time, ever. In other words: what makes this time any different, since you've already signed away any real or perceived "rights" you may have had already, just to log into SL?

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3 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

I think the 600 were "per annum", and cashing out almost 1k from something many people just consider "some online game" within 5 months is for ME far from small time ❤️ you seem to do great ^^ ❤️

 

Oh I'm very grateful for the income I make here in SL. But what I meant is that I'm definitely small time as there is no way I could survive on my SL income. I think to be considered as a big time merchant in SL you'd have to make enough to support yourself RL.

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8 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

This has been true since the very first time you ever started up any SL viewer and clicked that little "I Agree" button before seeing the SL world for the very first time, ever. In other words: what makes this time any different, since you've already signed away any real or perceived "rights" you may have had already, just to log into SL?

Yep some people obviously never read what they signed XD 

And the Lindens were secretly playing with our AVs while we were offline...thats the reason our AVs sometimes had had shoes up their ar..err...back then when you logged in!

And that also was the real reason for the down time while Rolling Restarts, they touched all of our thiiings..and probably they are still going around licking our sandwiches and stuff...today I had @Lost Mole on my parcel! I bet they touched all my foods! *nods*

Nah for real there was ALWAYS like mass panics when something changed in the ToS, or changed in any way in SL XD But as wild as it starts it usually quickly calmes again! XD

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Just now, Gwin LeShelle said:

Yep some people obviously never read what they signed XD 

And the Lindens were secretly playing with our AVs while we were offline...thats the reason our AVs sometimes had had shoes up their ar..err...back then when you logged in!

And that also was the real reason for the down time while Rolling Restarts, they touched all of our thiiings..and probably they are still going around licking our sandwiches and stuff...today I had @Lost Mole on my parcel! I bet they touched all my foods! *nods*

Nah for real there was ALWAYS like mass panics when something changed in the ToS, or changed in any way in SL XD But as wild as it starts it usually quickly calmes again! XD

Ohh I think you are onto something here, because I saw @Lost Mole on my street just last night! If I hadn't been home, I bet he was going to steal my sammiches too! *runs in circles, flailing*

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Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Ohh I think you are onto something here, because I saw @Lost Mole on my street just last night! If I hadn't been home, I bet he was going to steal my sammiches too! *runs in circles, flailing*

Maybe if you would FEED the Moles, then they’d leave your food unmolested.

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Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Ohh I think you are onto something here, because I saw @Lost Mole on my street just last night! If I hadn't been home, I bet he was going to steal my sammiches too! *runs in circles, flailing*

we better watch that!! Im gonna go and buy a mole-safe lock for the fridge and spent some L on new SLupperWare containers that are hard to open for little mole hands!

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1 minute ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

there was ALWAYS like mass panics when something changed in the ToS, or changed in any way in SL XD But as wild as it starts it usually quickly calmes again! XD

it's true, but look at all those big changes.. and also to this minor one..
LL dumps a statement, no explanation, and you do it, you do it when we want it, and because we want it....
And finally...after some hours of riot in threads they come with at utterly useless response, and finally a day later they start with a real explanation. ..so who's to blame?

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4 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

Yep some people obviously never read what they signed XD 

And the Lindens were secretly playing with our AVs while we were offline...thats the reason our AVs sometimes had had shoes up their ar..err...back then when you logged in!

And that also was the real reason for the down time while Rolling Restarts, they touched all of our thiiings..and probably they are still going around licking our sandwiches and stuff...today I had @Lost Mole on my parcel! I bet they touched all my foods! *nods*

Nah for real there was ALWAYS like mass panics when something changed in the ToS, or changed in any way in SL XD But as wild as it starts it usually quickly calmes again! XD

Still splitting my sides over that..."touched all of our thiiings..."hahahha

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