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Daniel Voyager

Last Names Still No ETA

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8 minutes ago, Oz Linden said:

Last I heard, we fixed that some time ago.

Awesome! (I don't use it, though a friend was complainin' about it last week - I'll go plonk them in the head). :D

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Posted (edited)

Selectable last names is a cash cow waiting to happen, I for one would be willing to part with 10 bucks usd for a 'cherished plate'.   :D   . Make it so, LL. I was at the speech yesterday and understand the code goes deeper than deep, and therefore we may need to be patient a while yet. 

Edited by rasterscan
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I have updated my blogpost on changing your first and last name with the information from yesterday's interview with Oz:

https://ryanschultz.com/2018/03/22/more-details-on-the-upcoming-ability-to-change-your-user-name-in-second-life/

I am quite disappointed that Linden Lab is not going to meet its most recent deadline on this (last November they said second quarter 2019). It's clear that this is going to be delayed again. I myself have a couple of alts I would gladly bring up to Premium if I could rename them.

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Pay to change a name? Seriously? Why would I pay to replace something with equal function? Its not a phone with a better camera and more storage space. I understand paying for land. I understand paying for group space. I understand paying for sales on the marketplace. You give Linden Lab money, you receive functionality you otherwise would not have.

But on top of asking me to pay way too much for land, you'll ask me to pay for something I already have?

I sure hope its under 5 bucks or a couple thousand Linden dollars.

If it really is because of the servers having to update everything - which they will or won't no matter the financial windfall, so forgive me for not buying that - then put us in a queue when we order a new name and make us wait for them to be processed in a smooth manner. But for the love of God don't make us pay for this.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

Pay to change a name? Seriously? Why would I pay to replace something with equal function? Its not a phone with a better camera and more storage space. I understand paying for land. I understand paying for group space. I understand paying for sales on the marketplace. You give Linden Lab money, you receive functionality you otherwise would not have.

But on top of asking me to pay way too much for land, you'll ask me to pay for something I already have?

I sure hope its under 5 bucks or a couple thousand Linden dollars.

If it really is because of the servers having to update everything - which they will or won't no matter the financial windfall, so forgive me for not buying that - then put us in a queue when we order a new name and make us wait for them to be processed in a smooth manner. But for the love of God don't make us pay for this.

Way back when they first talked about this, they stated that you would have to be Premium in order to do the name change -- so there is that fee -- and then it would cost roughly $25-35 US for each time you wanted to do the name change.  

The payment is primarily to discourage folks from doing it too often as it will cause a rippling effect throughout everything on the server. I imagine part of it is also to help recoup some of the cost that LL is putting out in doing the project at all,  especially given that it now is involving a whole lot more work than originally planned -- heck, developers aren't cheap, after all. 

I definitely support them wanting to charge that much for it - for both of the reasons noted above.  I don't necessarily support the Premium requirement.  I also think that everyone with a last name of Resident should be give one freebie so they can get a last name.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Way back when they first talked about this, they stated that you would have to be Premium in order to do the name change -- so there is that fee -- and then it would cost roughly $25-35 US for each time you wanted to do the name change.  

The payment is primarily to discourage folks from doing it too often as it will cause a rippling effect throughout everything on the server. I imagine part of it is also to help recoup some of the cost that LL is putting out in doing the project at all,  especially given that it now is involving a whole lot more work than originally planned -- heck, developers aren't cheap, after all. 

I definitely support them wanting to charge that much for it - for both of the reasons noted above.  I don't necessarily support the Premium requirement.  I also think that everyone with a last name of Resident should be give one freebie so they can get a last name.

The payment to discourage is a poor excuse when you can make it impossible to change it too often (We can't update our freebie display names more than once a week. Linden Lab has made that technically impossible).

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5 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

The payment to discourage is a poor excuse when you can make it impossible to change it too often (We can't update our freebie display names more than once a week. Linden Lab has made that technically impossible).

And Oz did mention that even with the fee, if people started changing too frequently, they might put a forced time limit on it - like the display name stuff.

Given the number of development and testing hours that will ultimately be consumed for this particular project, I think a fee to help recoup some of that is valid.  They have all sorts of fees that are charged to the people using the service -- land fees, cash out fees, etc... -- so I think it is perfectly valid to have the people that actually use the service help pay for the project costs.

In some ways, I can even see making it a Premium perk - especially since one of their goal is to get more Premium signups. 

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And Oz did mention that even with the fee, if people started changing too frequently, they might put a forced time limit on it - like the display name stuff.

Given the number of development and testing hours that will ultimately be consumed for this particular project, I think a fee to help recoup some of that is valid.  They have all sorts of fees that are charged to the people using the service -- land fees, cash out fees, etc... -- so I think it is perfectly valid to have the people that actually use the service help pay for the project costs.

In some ways, I can even see making it a Premium perk - especially since one of their goal is to get more Premium signups. 

Forgive any ignorance, but did they hire developers for this project specifically or are they paying the same employees they would be paying anyway to do other things?

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31 minutes ago, Adam Spark said:

Forgive any ignorance, but did they hire developers for this project specifically or are they paying the same employees they would be paying anyway to do other things?

It doesn't matter.  It is not uncommon for companies to charge for the research and development and testing costs associated with doing a special project requested by and likely only to be used by a subset of their customers. 

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11 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It doesn't matter.  It is not uncommon for companies to charge for the research and development and testing costs associated with doing a special project requested by and likely only to be used by a subset of their customers. 

Likely only to be used by a subset of their customers because of the price tag associated.

Make me pay for the value you are returning to me. Don't make me pay for your investments in the improvement of your product. That's your responsibility.

Let me put it to you this way. There is a number of use cases for changing your name. Maybe you made a spelling mistake. Maybe you want your partners last name (looks like that won't be a use case here thanks to the limited set of last names, but thats another rant). Maybe you've thought of a better one. Maybe its for roleplay purposes.

Taking two minutes out of your day to make the name change for the purposes I listed above is easily justified.

Taking 30 bucks out of your wallet to do so, when you already have a name? Not so much.

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Posted (edited)

I happy to pay a lot more to have a second name - if they asks for two hundred dollars, I pays that - it been nearly nine years for me without one, as I was one of the first folks to be a resident.

During that time I and many other residents was treated poorly due to our status. Even today, when you looks at store owners and the persons who is significant in the world, you most times see avatars with second names in those situations. Even when not, it likely gonna be some alt of someone else who has a surname on their true avatar.

I not think many persons realise just how poorly the "residents" has been treated by others, especially for the first four years, where it was assumed that anyone without a surname was some newbie with only the week of age or worse. Only now is that suspicion fading away and it been a long time coming.

I would even accept the surname "resident" as it was the name the system seems to think we has - but that not being offered as an option - why so?

At least dat name would have meaning, as a mark of what we has endured and come through.

Edited by Chronometria
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20 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

furthers the sentiment that residents are second class. I do not feel we are a priority to the Lab to make happen in a timely fashion (late 2018 - mid 2019)

Do you feel so hard done to as a "second class" resident before or after...

-Animesh

-Bakes on Mesh

-Lowering tier, increasing land count as far as 30k

-EEP Project

-All of the under the hood improvements

-Moving to the cloud

-New linden homes

-Increasing the premium land ownership from 512 to 1024

-Various improvements to the marketplace

...All of which have been developed for the benefit of no one other than the "second class" residents you describe. Sounds pretty first class to me to be honest

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6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Pay to change a name? Seriously? Why would I pay to replace something with equal function?

By god you are right. How dare they...a company of all things...try to make a little extra money so they can keep the lights on for a few years longer. Never mind that those pesky enhancements they keep releasing such as EEP, Bakes on Mesh and Animesh require hours of paid coding and development. Never mind that they are trying to make up the short fall in the other various financial cuts they have made to things such as land. But you are 100% right, how dare they make you Adam Spark (the f are you btw?) pay for name change. No other game/world/experience does that....oh wait...

 

6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Its not a phone with a better camera and more storage space. 

It really isn't, I am glad you can tell the difference on that btw I was starting to worry. However let me elaborate..

 

6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

I understand paying for land. I understand paying for group space. I understand paying for sales on the marketplace. You give Linden Lab money, you receive functionality you otherwise would not have.

..what it is is a whole different name that better reflects your identity and allows you to be part of a larger less connected family. And if you are a resident you get a Spanky shiny new last name to go along with it. It allows couples to change their surname to a shared one to further their commitment to one another. It allows families in SL to all go under a single surname. It allows those avatars who haven't the creativity to think up something original to finally change their names from EhBibble123123 etc etc etc blah blah flog a dead donkey blah. AND it makes linden lab a little money on the side to go toward funding all of the new stuff they keep releasing. Go Lab!

 

6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

But on top of asking me to pay way too much for land, you'll ask me to pay for something I already have?

You are looking at it from too narrow a view point. I get that you feel absolutely violated by the labs sneaky underhanded charges and that you have you to come to the forum with a triumphal sense of derring do to set the record straight, demand justice and burn your jock strap. But..you seem to labouring under the impression that this name change only exists to give avatars a last name. It doesn't. You can change either your first name, your last name, or both. You can even change your base resident name to another resident name from what I gather. You could change yours to Madam Spark, don taffeta and strut about in heels whipping the house boy if you so did wish. Dealers choice!

 

6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

I sure hope its under 5 bucks or a couple thousand Linden dollars.

I sure hope that when I wake up in the morning my boobs will be bigger and my third nipple will have finally vanished and the masses will finally stop referring to me as "Triple Tit Witch" but sadly we don't always get what we want.

 

6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

If it really is because of the servers having to update everything - which they will or won't no matter the financial windfall, so forgive me for not buying that - then put us in a queue when we order a new name and make us wait for them to be processed in a smooth manner. But for the love of God don't make us pay for this.

Ya know I could go into a whole spiel here about the lab being a company, needing to turn a profit, investors to satisfy, staff to pay, increases in costs to make up for decreases in other areas, increased operating costs over the years and the decrease in population over the last decade, net profits, net loss etc etc but...I fear it would be lost on you so I will end with this...

Chill child

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24 minutes ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

Do you feel so hard done to as a "second class" resident before or after...

Being a 'Resident' has always come with a social price, and that will only increase once it's opt out (unless you have an astoundingly good single name that is).

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, investment in an SL identity (even if it feels forced) will be good for retention, but don't for one second expect people to like it. Especially if premium is a mandatory prerequisite (and it should be .. precisely because of the social aspect).

Obviously this isn't going to make me popular with everyone who refuses to ever pay LL a dime.

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6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Taking 30 bucks out of your wallet to do so, when you already have a name? Not so much.

You have a last name so you wouldnt have to pay unless you wanted to change your name. 

This name change thing appeals mostly Resident last name holders and Sandy8163838282 type usernames. 

I want this! it's no secret this out of all the changes this one I want the most and yes I'll happily pay for it. I want a capital A at the start of my darn name that is all .. the last name is a bonus.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

Pay to change a name? Seriously? Why would I pay to replace something with equal function?

You never played any mmos, did you? The account services usually include name changes, server transfers and similar things. And even in games which are made with such features in mind, without 1.5 decades worth of spaghetti code (like in SL) and doing some of those operations is literally just running a script that changes a flag in the database, it still costs 20$ to 50$ for some of those services. If you see no need or value in those, you can, you know, just not buy it. Same for the name change whenever it'll be available. But some people and not just "Residents" might want it, so why not let them buy it and support the company in doing so?

And if speak about "value" on the big scale, then all you have here; land, clothes, avatars, vehicles and whatever has any value to you, might be completely useless for someone else, yet you probably paid some (or even a lot) for it through the years in SL. In the end it's just pixels anyway, the important part is to enjoy yourself and your time in SL. I know that whenever I'll finally be able to change the name on my "main", I'll enjoy that time a tiny bit more, so for me it's worth it.

Yeah, sure, I'd like if LL made first name change cheaper or even free, who wouldn't? For example PSN (Sony) recently added this feature too, also after over a decade+ long wait. First change is free, all others are 10$ for non PSPlus subscribers and 5$ for PSPlus users. But it's not the end of the world if much smaller company like LL would ask for more than that.

 

1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Especially if premium is a mandatory prerequisite (and it should be .. precisely because of the social aspect).

That part I don't really get. It's just 10$ more for someone without premium, why even make such requirement? They can sign for a month, change the name and just not renew. I highly doubt LL would want to tie name change to the active premium status, i.e active - have your new shiny name; inactive - back to the bob12345 Resident. It will feel pretty terrible for everyone who would pay for the change and then (maybe even a few years later, but you never know what life can bring you even tomorrow) wouldn't want or be able to renew the premium and get forced name change back.

If anything, I think LL can use it to promote the premium. They could make it something like 35$ for basics and 25$ for premiums (and 15-20$ for those new super premiums that should be available by then). Then getting one month of premium would be pretty good value and maybe someone would like increased groups limits and faster access time to full regions so they'd actually renew and if not, then it would still be same fee they pay to LL, give or take a couple of bucks.

 

Edit: I'm a bit sad it takes so long. There's also a chance that I won't like first batch of last names, then it'll be even more waiting until next rotation comes out.

Edited by steeljane42
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1 hour ago, ItHadToComeToThis said:

By god you are right. How dare they...a company of all things...try to make a little extra money so they can keep the lights on for a few years longer. Never mind that those pesky enhancements they keep releasing such as EEP, Bakes on Mesh and Animesh require hours of paid coding and development. Never mind that they are trying to make up the short fall in the other various financial cuts they have made to things such as land. But you are 100% right, how dare they make you Adam Spark (the f are you btw?) pay for name change. No other game/world/experience does that....oh wait...

 

It really isn't, I am glad you can tell the difference on that btw I was starting to worry. However let me elaborate..

 

..what it is is a whole different name that better reflects your identity and allows you to be part of a larger less connected family. And if you are a resident you get a Spanky shiny new last name to go along with it. It allows couples to change their surname to a shared one to further their commitment to one another. It allows families in SL to all go under a single surname. It allows those avatars who haven't the creativity to think up something original to finally change their names from EhBibble123123 etc etc etc blah blah flog a dead donkey blah. AND it makes linden lab a little money on the side to go toward funding all of the new stuff they keep releasing. Go Lab!

 

You are looking at it from too narrow a view point. I get that you feel absolutely violated by the labs sneaky underhanded charges and that you have you to come to the forum with a triumphal sense of derring do to set the record straight, demand justice and burn your jock strap. But..you seem to labouring under the impression that this name change only exists to give avatars a last name. It doesn't. You can change either your first name, your last name, or both. You can even change your base resident name to another resident name from what I gather. You could change yours to Madam Spark, don taffeta and strut about in heels whipping the house boy if you so did wish. Dealers choice!

 

I sure hope that when I wake up in the morning my boobs will be bigger and my third nipple will have finally vanished and the masses will finally stop referring to me as "Triple Tit Witch" but sadly we don't always get what we want.

 

Ya know I could go into a whole spiel here about the lab being a company, needing to turn a profit, investors to satisfy, staff to pay, increases in costs to make up for decreases in other areas, increased operating costs over the years and the decrease in population over the last decade, net profits, net loss etc etc but...I fear it would be lost on you so I will end with this...

Chill child

All I will say to this is I have advocated for many price increases due to my understanding of the business. I would love to see increases across the board in exchange for lower land costs. I don't feel violated by their charges, because quite frankly I don't see any justification for paying for a name change and therefore won't. I'll save my money for things of value like tier.

The purpose of these forums is to voice opinion. I did that. That is all.

Chill child.

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32 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

You never played any mmos, did you? The account services usually include name changes, server transfers and similar things. And even in games which are made with such features in mind, without 1.5 decades worth of spaghetti code (like in SL) and doing some of those operations is literally just running a script that changes a flag in the database, it still costs 20$ to 50$ for some of those services. If you see no need or value in those, you can, you know, just not buy it. Same for the name change whenever it'll be available. But some people and not just "Residents" might want it, so why not let them buy it and support the company in doing so?

And if speak about "value" on the big scale, then all you have here; land, clothes, avatars, vehicles and whatever has any value to you, might be completely useless for someone else, yet you probably paid some (or even a lot) for it through the years in SL. In the end it's just pixels anyway, the important part is to enjoy yourself and your time in SL. I know that whenever I'll finally be able to change the name on my "main", I'll enjoy that time a tiny bit more, so for me it's worth it.

Yeah, sure, I'd like if LL made first name change cheaper or even free, who wouldn't? For example PSN (Sony) recently added this feature too, also after over a decade+ long wait. First change is free, all others are 10$ for non PSPlus subscribers and 5$ for PSPlus users. But it's not the end of the world if much smaller company like LL would ask for more than that.

I have played mmos. The fact that they do it too is not a justification for me to like it. I never paid them for it either. As for "let them buy it", my opinion doesn't preclude anyone from doing anything.

My point about value is this: When I get a shirt, or a house, or an avatar, it is something I didn't have that lets me look a certain way or do something. I have a name already, even if I have interest in changing it.

I guess my biggest gripe was this. I have been pleading for years for a basic return to first name/last name. It used to be free. It used to be just the way it works. Thats what I have requested. Thats what I feel the community has requested for years. Not this paid extra.

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If it costs a lot of money to fix the code to make name changes possible, then they won't do it unless they think they'll recoup the costs. Either in direct payments or in better user retention leading to the money coming back through tier payments, MP fees, etc. It doesn't make sense to offer a service that won't help them make money, whether directly or indirectly.

So if they don't think that name changes are going to pay for themselves by making users spend more money on other things, they have two choices - charge to change, or don't let people change at all. Having the option to change one's username at a price is better than no choice at all.

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11 minutes ago, callistanull said:

If it costs a lot of money to fix the code to make name changes possible, then they won't do it unless they think they'll recoup the costs.

On going software development like SL (or Chrome, or iOS) is never a zero sum game. Of course projects have to be budgeted but that almost never takes into account the direct revenue the end result might generate. Names, like animesh, EEP, BoM or old style profiles are just something the lab feel they need to advance the platform. Sometimes we really do get what we ask for and this is one of those times, although hopefully people can take away that simple requests don't always have simple solutions.

Personally, I'm really glad Oz and Co didn't entirely appreciate just how deep this particular rabbit hole went before committing to it, it's always easier to justify projects that can be clearly ring fenced with more straight forward development cycles. It's a real danger that epic projects can end up eating a huge amount of time and never actually make it to meaningful production.

As to why they are going to charge to change names, because they can. Simple as that really.

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6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

I guess my biggest gripe was this. I have been pleading for years for a basic return to first name/last name. It used to be free. It used to be just the way it works. Thats what I have requested. Thats what I feel the community has requested for years. Not this paid extra.

But this isn't "a basic return to first name / last name" because it affects existing account names. If the project had been to again offer the first+last name combo for new accounts, as we had for free for the first few years of SL, then it wouldn't be such a big deal to implement. Instead, the only relevant project worth having now must enable folks to change their existing account names.

That's a big effort and all that development cost is going to be recouped from residents, one way or another. Charging a "user fee" for the feature offsets at least some of what would otherwise be pure opportunity cost against all other possible development. Maybe someday they can use the proceeds to hire an intern to work on fixing the wiki or something.

Also, the ability to change the name of an account that already has a first+last name isn't merely more difficult than re-enabling first+last name account creation, it's also a more valuable feature. Accounts acquire inventory along with other reasons to remain intact through a name change rather than being abandoned and replaced by a whole newly-named account.

Personally -- unexpectedly -- I now see how that could add value for one or more of my old accounts. Granted, most existing two-named accounts will never use this feature -- a fact wholly irrelevant to those of us who just might pay a modest fee to do so.

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6 hours ago, Adam Spark said:

My point about value is this: When I get a shirt, or a house, or an avatar, it is something I didn't have that lets me look a certain way or do something. I have a name already, even if I have interest in changing it.

You probably have a shirt or house already and you definitely have an avatar already. By your reasoning, why would you pay for a different one?

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5 minutes ago, Les Couturier said:

Will I be able to change my last name to resident, so I can join the biggest family on the grid? 

only if Resident is offered as a Last Name in the drop down list. Probably not but never know !!!

maybe you can start a petition asking for this. If get like 1000s of people sign up and all willing to pay money then LL will defo do it

annnnd you might even be able to like get some old last names Resident to sign the petition also. So they can change to the new shiny Resident last name, and not have the old not shiny last name Resident like all them other people

😺

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Oz Linden Comments on complexity approximately 28:00 - 33:00.  Q&A approximately 38:00 - 48:00.

 

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