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The New LH Release Plan - Your Thoughts


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5 minutes ago, Clarrellae said:

Lists are great for limited supply of once-in-a-lifetime opportunities.  But Linden Homes are going to be in adequate or even superduper supply at some point. 

For people who want the home now now now before anybody else, well, that's its own stress and agitation. Given that you *will* eventually have your dream home sometime in the near future, isn't that worth being happy about?

I don't give a toss about these new homes, personally, but what I am really grateful for is a) Linden Lab still exists after those earthquakes and b ) Patch and others are reading the threads and weighing in.  I feel really grateful about the world still turning in that light.   Homes are coming ❤️

I'm grateful that @Patch Linden is optimistic enough to believe there could someday be 10 trillion premium SL users vying for new linden homes and he doesn't want anyone to be last on that list.  LOL

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2 hours ago, tinatickles Cummings said:

When going to a popular restaurant, do you make reservations, or just drive there each evening, hoping there's been a cancellation, and you'll be seated?  If you call and they say, "our first opening is a week from Tuesday" you say, great, I'll take it. (.....)  But seeing where I am on a list would allow me to gauge reasonably when I might expect a home, and allow me to enjoy my full premium benefit while I wait.  (.......) It's a silly way of doing things.  A list would be much more professional.

Lists are great for restaurant reservations, agreed! It helps the restaurant know how much salmon to order that day.  The Lindens know how much "salmon to order" already, to keep that metaphor, because they know how many premium accounts to build for, and they are building for that number.  It's just going to take some time. No resident is a priority over another resident, so the way it's unfolding is the most fair.  Can you plan, personally, no... but you can rest assured at least that your home IS being built. 

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2 hours ago, BelleBax said:

That's great - but this is not news.  I think it means you don't know how long it would take to get to 25,000 homes.  So, the comment was a bit flip and doesn't really lead me (someone without new home) to believe you're sincere in your attempt to help find a solution.  If you think the process is fair as is - that's fine.  I do not.  I imagine everyone is working to get more homes released.  I do not know that they are working to improve this process - which I find unfortunate at best. 

I certainly didn’t intend to make a flippant remark and I’m very sorry if you felt I did such a thing.  You are asking LL to predict the future with some sort of a guarantee or prediction that you expect to be able to rely on.  Their promise IS that there will be enough homes for everyone who wants one and LL will NOT STOP until they have delivered exactly what they have promised.  They have been working on this project for approximately 1 year and there are approximately 3,500 (my totally unreliable estimate but anyone may try and count on the map). We know for sure they created 709 from scratch in one month.  We can guess that monthly total will increase each month as they become more efficient.  Only LL knows exactly the number of Premium Accounts they will need homes for because that is what we have chosen to pay them for.  LL has stated that 38,000 older homes will need to be replaced so we know it will be at least that amount. Completely guessing they can produce 1,000 per month for the next 3 or 4 months and possibly 1,200 per month the next 3 or 4 months you can extrapolate an approximate timeframe by studying the process, keeping your own more accurate data and projecting a date.  Keep in mind also that more and more members will probably become Premium during this process as more and more interest is generated and desired in this uniquely original project. 💗 

I do not know if it will be sunny on August 5 but I know there are an average of 265 sunny days per year where I live, so the chances are... 50/50 that it will be rainy or sunny!  I would like a list of available sunny days in August for a family reunion picnic and I’d like to reserve it now... but I must be patient and pay attention to the weather forecast closer to August and plan for a picnic or maybe a day of roller skating indoors if the weather does not occur as predicted.  

My point is no one can know the future because there are just too many variables.  You can guess and I can guess and LL can guess, but NOT predict when your Home will be ready, no matter if you are on a list waiting patiently as 863 or casually clicking on occasion or tearing your hair out and developing repetitive motion injuries.

The very best way to not get all stressed out is to do something which does not cause you or anyone else stress 💗   Come and visit, watch, have fun, have coffee with Guilio in the cafe or come and play a game of darts at the Queenshead Pub or have a horseback ride on a horse from one of the free Animesh horse rezzers inworld, come and listen to some music, do some swimming or boating or learn to sail or fly a plane.  Join a group and chat, visit the houses in the parade of homes, make a model of one or all and decorate it while you are waiting. 🥰 

Edited by BJoyful
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4 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I certainly didn’t intent to make a flippant remark and I’m very sorry if you felt I did such a thing.  You are asking LL to predict the future with some sort of a guarantee or prediction that you expect to be able to rely on.  Their promise IS that there will be enough homes for everyone who wants one and LL will NOT STOP until they have delivered exactly what they have promised.  They have been working on this project for approximately 1 year and there are approximately 3,500 (my totally unreliable estimate but anyone may try and count on the map). We know for sure they created 709 from scratch in one month.  We can guess that monthly total will increase each month as they become more efficient.  Only LL knows exactly the number of Premium Accounts they will need homes for because that is what we have chosen to pay them for.  LL has stated that 38,000 older homes will need to be replaced so we know it will be at least that amount. Completely guessing they can produce 1,000 per month for the next 3 or 4 months and possibly 1,200 per month the next 3 or 4 months you can extrapolate an approximate timeframe by studying the process, keeping your own more accurate data and projecting a date.  Keep in mind also that more and more members will probably become Premium during this process as more and more interest is generated and desired in this uniquely original project. 💗 

I do not know if it will be sunny on August 5 but I know there are an average of 265 sunny days per year where I live, so the chances are... 50/50 that it will be rainy or sunny!  I would like a list of available sunny days in August for a family reunion picnic and I’d like to reserve it now... but I must be patient and pay attention to the weather forecast closer to August and plan for a picnic or maybe a day of roller skating indoors in weather does not occur as predicted.  

My point is no one can know the future because there are just too many variables.  You can guess and I can guess and LL can guess, but NOT predict when your Home will be ready, no matter if you are on a list waiting patiently as 863 or casually clicking on occasion or tearing your hair out and developing repetitive motion injuries.

The very best way to not get all stressed out is to do something which does not cause you or anyone else stress 💗   Come and visit, watch, have fun, have coffee with Guilio in the cafe or come and play a game of darts at the Queenshead Pub or have a horseback ride on a horse from one of the free Animesh horse rezzers inworld, come and listen to some music, do some swimming or boating or learn to sail or fly a plane.  Join a group and chat, visit the houses in the parade of homes, make a model of one or all and decorate it while you are waiting. 🥰 

This is a very nice post and I appreciate what seems to me to be a kinder tone.  I'm not really looking for ways to pass the time while I wait for a new home.  But, if I were - yours are good suggestions. 

As to LL not being able to predict when the homes will be ready precisely - I disagree.  This is software development - when done well (as I imagine LL does it) its a highly predictable process.  I'd be surprised if they don't have a project manager or a product owner with a plan/timeline for each region.   Its possible they underestimated the interest in the new homes, but what is needed to build them and how long it will take... I give LL more credit than that.

I'm not sure where these new homes fall in terms of LL's priorities as they may not be considered revenue generating.  But - LL is spending money to have new homes and communities built, and they have likely budgeted for the effort to be completed by some time - which won't be published (all good).  We don't know these timelines - but LL knows, and so they could certainly support a list or reservation process if they wanted to.  They don't want to - or they don't need to -  or they've determine it's not the best approach - or for whatever reason they're doing the roll out this way.  I have no doubt - this is a choice, not a function of the unknown future.  

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13 minutes ago, BelleBax said:

As to LL not being able to predict when the homes will be ready precisely - I disagree.  This is software development - when done well (as I imagine LL does it) its a highly predictable process. 

This is where a lot of folks go wrong in their thinking.  This is more manual labor that software development.  Software development typically involves folks sitting at a desk coding and testing.  This is mostly true for the Scripting, but as to terraforming the land, laying out the parcels, placing the houses, placing the landscaping, designing and placing the public areas -- those all require someone being inworld manually doing stuff with the land and build tools, just like any other resident that would be designing and setting up a region.  Since every region is laid out a bit differently, it is not really a 'wham, bam, thank you mam' type thing.

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26 minutes ago, BelleBax said:

This is a very nice post and I appreciate what seems to me to be a kinder tone. I'm not really looking for ways to pass the time while I wait for a new home. But, if I were - yours are good suggestions. 

As to LL not being able to predict when the homes will be ready precisely - I disagree. This is software development - when done well (as I imagine LL does it) its a highly predictable process. I'd be surprised if they don't have a project manager or a product owner with a plan/timeline for each region. Its possible they underestimated the interest in the new homes, but what is needed to build them and how long it will take... I give LL more credit than that.

I'm not sure where these new homes fall in terms of LL's priorities as they may not be considered revenue generating. But - LL is spending money to have new homes and communities built, and they have likely budgeted for the effort to be completed by some time - which won't be published (all good). We don't know these timelines - but LL knows, and so they could certainly support a list or reservation process if they wanted to. They don't want to - or they don't need to - or they've determine it's not the best approach - or for whatever reason they're doing the roll out this way. I have no doubt - this is a choice, not a function of the unknown future. 

I would guess that LL does know an approximate date that they expect the next 30 or 40 Regions of homes will be Released or they would not be releasing approximately 3 Regions per week. 🙂 

Beyond that, it becomes less and less accurate and the inaccuracy is compounded exponentially.  What you are asking for is akin to asking a mother on her way out the door of the hospital with a newborn “What day will he be able to walk because I want to buy him some cute shoes?”

This project is unique and the first time EVER such a thing has been attempted.  LL has timelines and ALL the skills and knowledge to do exactly what they have promised but they have no exact previous model to make efficient precise calculations such as how many rubber ducks can be delivered to House of Ducks store by December 14 for the duck races.  Bellisseria is partly like building with blocks, partly like building a replica model train and village.  If you know anyone who has done this and asked them when they will finish, can they tell you a day, or a within week, or a within a month when they will be finished?  It is NOT just putting together a puzzle, or even a 3D puzzle.  It s a work of art as well. 😍

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4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This is where a lot of folks go wrong in their thinking.  This is more manual labor that software development.  Software development typically involves folks sitting at a desk coding and testing.  This is mostly true for the Scripting, but as to terraforming the land, laying out the parcels, placing the houses, placing the landscaping, designing and placing the public areas -- those all require someone being inworld manually doing stuff with the land and build tools, just like any other resident that would be designing and setting up a region.  Since every region is laid out a bit differently, it is not really a 'wham, bam, thank you mam' type thing.

Well... there's a bit or art in software development as well as science.  In fact, the best developers I know majored in the arts (oddly - mostly philosophy).  Terraforming can be as predictable as they want it to be.  They could use templates or not - either way, my thinking is not wrong  - these are predictable activities.  If LL has written a blank check for the creation of new homes and communities - then I will happily concede the point.  I suspect, however, that bids were placed to do so much work in X amount of time.  I'm not suggesting the work is easy - i couldn't do it - or that Moles don't have to think on their toes to work around issues.  But I'd like to think they are working from a plan and not making things up as they go. 

I'm also not trying to rush anyone.  We were discussing a better process for rolling out new homes - and somehow unpredictable timelines became a blocker for what I think is a reasonable solution.  The timelines really should be predictable.  

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36 minutes ago, BelleBax said:

But - LL is spending money to have new homes and communities built, and they have likely budgeted for the effort to be completed by some time - which won't be published (all good).  We don't know these timelines - but LL knows, and so they could certainly support a list or reservation process if they wanted to.  They don't want to - or they don't need to -  or they've determine it's not the best approach - or for whatever reason they're doing the roll out this way.  I have no doubt - this is a choice, not a function of the unknown future.  

Lists in this case would not be good.  I remember being in school. My last name began with a 'Y'.  I was always towards the end of the waiting line.  I feel its more fair and balanced with the random releases for residents to have a shot at grabbing a home.

As for a plan on building the continent out. Of course they have a master plan and its mapped out. And they also have grey areas left open for changes and adjustments.  LL informs us what they can, within reason.  A developer never releases their total plan and blue print to the public. Its just not done. I don't think we should expect LL to behave any differently in this regard either.

Edited by PrudenceAnton
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3 hours ago, Clarrellae said:

No resident is a priority over another resident, so the way it's unfolding is the most fair.  Can you plan, personally, no... but you can rest assured at least that your home IS being built. 

being built? yes, but not right now. most people's homes are still on the drawing board. most people's homes will be in themes we haven't even been told about yet. for those wanting to plan, i'd say, come back in six months and assess the situation then. realistically you're going to struggle to get anything sooner than that. you're up against too many people who want their home NOW.

of course the current system isn't fair, since it gives an advantage to people in certain timezones, with 24/7 internet access, who don't have disabilities or other issues in accessing the signup screen, who can afford multiple alts, etc. etc. but then it's hard to think of a system that wouldn't. whatever system was put in place, people would work out how to game it. my prediction is the site will crash entirely when the trailers are released and they'll either have to block auto-refresh or rethink how homes are allocated.

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2 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

Lists in this case would not be good.  I remember being in school. My last name began with a 'Y'.  I was always towards the end of the waiting line.  I feel its more fair and balanced with the random releases for residents to have a shot at grabbing a home.

As for a plan on building the continent out. Of course they have a master plan and its mapped out. And they also have grey areas left open for changes and adjustments.  LL informs us what they can, within reason.  A developer never releases their total plan and blue print to the public. Its just not done. I think don't we should expect LL to behave any differently in this regard either.

In my opinion, predictability of a list would be preferable to random luck.  Your opinion seems to be the opposite.  Both are reasonable opinions and nothing more.

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10 minutes ago, BelleBax said:

Well... there's a bit or art in software development as well as science.  In fact, the best developers I know majored in the arts (oddly - mostly philosophy).  Terraforming can be as predictable as they want it to be.  They could use templates or not - either way, my thinking is not wrong  - these are predictable activities.  If LL has written a blank check for the creation of new homes and communities - then I will happily concede the point.  I suspect, however, that bids were placed to do so much work in X amount of time.  I'm not suggesting the work is easy - i couldn't do it - or that Moles don't have to think on their toes to work around issues.  But I'd like to think they are working from a plan and not making things up as they go. 

I'm also not trying to rush anyone.  We were discussing a better process for rolling out new homes - and somehow unpredictable timelines became a blocker for what I think is a reasonable solution.  The timelines really should be predictable.  

No... we do not want cookie cutter continents... no copy paste... we want nice hand made regions that are unique... the 2010 Linden homes failed because there was almost nothing unique about those regions on top of their already painful size... Lets just let the Moles do their job and stop trying to be backseat drivers

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6 minutes ago, usagihara said:

 

being built? yes, but not right now. most people's homes are still on the drawing board. most people's homes will be in themes we haven't even been told about yet. for those wanting to plan, i'd say, come back in six months and assess the situation then. realistically you're going to struggle to get anything sooner than that. you're up against too many people who want their home NOW.

of course the current system isn't fair, since it gives an advantage to people in certain timezones, with 24/7 internet access, who don't have disabilities or other issues in accessing the signup screen, who can afford multiple alts, etc. etc. but then it's hard to think of a system that wouldn't. whatever system was put in place, people would work out how to game it. my prediction is the site will crash entirely when the trailers are released and they'll either have to block auto-refresh or rethink how homes are allocated.

I don't that will happen. They can tell the difference between a popular website and an attack.  This is not the same as a DoS when there are massive attacks on a server. This would be planned for by LL and they would most likely develop more resources to carry the load.

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1 minute ago, Keira Raleigh said:

Just noticed that the "terms and conditons" state no skyboxes under 2000 meters  ... so apparently you CAN put up a skybox over your linden home

The skies above Bellisseria over 2,000 meters make for some interesting sightseeing while flying. 

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1 minute ago, PrudenceAnton said:

I don't that will happen. They can tell the difference between a popular website and an attack.  This is not the same as a DoS when there are massive attacks on a server. This would be planned for by LL and they would most likely develop more resources to carry the load.

Read full thread, THEN post, Beth... 

Anyhoo, the site didn't crash when the Pickle was released and that was a mad, mad rush. 

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2 minutes ago, BelleBax said:

In my opinion, predictability of a list would be preferable to random luck.  Your opinion seems to be the opposite.  Both are reasonable opinions and nothing more.

I agree, both are reasonable opinions and at opposite ends.  I wonder if you'll feel the same on a waiting list when a random lottery again is drawn and you end up at the end of the list, waiting for 3 years to have a home?  This is not meant to be snarky at all. Just realistic.  We'd  have many more residents complaining when they end up at the end of the line with no alternative to get ahead and be at the front.

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Just now, PrudenceAnton said:

I agree, both are reasonable opinions and at opposite ends.  I wonder if you'll feel the same on a waiting list when a random lottery again is drawn and you end up at the end of the list, waiting for 3 years to have a home?  This is not meant to be snarky at all. Just realistic.  We'd  have many more residents complaining when they end up at the end of the line with no alternative to get ahead and be at the front.

Oooh, I figured lists for FIFO.

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16 minutes ago, BJoyful said:

I would guess that LL does know an approximate date that they expect the next 30 or 40 Regions of homes will be Released or they would not be releasing approximately 3 Regions per week. 🙂 

Beyond that, it becomes less and less accurate and the inaccuracy is compounded exponentially.  What you are asking for is akin to asking a mother on her way out the door of the hospital with a newborn “What day will he be able to walk because I want to buy him some cute shoes?”

This project is unique and the first time EVER such a thing has been attempted.  LL has timelines and ALL the skills and knowledge to do exactly what they have promised but they have no exact previous model to make efficient precise calculations such as how many rubber ducks can be delivered to House of Ducks store by December 14 for the duck races.  Bellisseria is partly like building with blocks, partly like building a replica model train and village.  If you know anyone who has done this and asked them when they will finish, can they tell you a day, or a within week, or a within a month when they will be finished?  It is NOT just putting together a puzzle, or even a 3D puzzle.  It s a work of art as well. 😍

Right - I think I'm giving LL and their Moles more credit than you are.  I think all these first time factors have been considered and planned appropriately.  This is nothing like predicting when a toddler will walk - that's quite a stretch - I'm not actually sure you're serious. 

Anyway - we agree that there is some predictability for 10 - 13 weeks.  :)  I'd be happy to reserve the last house available on week 13.  Or put me on a list of people who will wait until week 14 for her home.  Week 15?  My point is, and has always been, that I would prefer a list to this random release madness - and again, LL could support the process if they wanted to.  Nothing has been said to realign my thinking - but I'm open minded. 

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12 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

No... we do not want cookie cutter continents... no copy paste... we want nice hand made regions that are unique... the 2010 Linden homes failed because there was almost nothing unique about those regions on top of their already painful size... Lets just let the Moles do their job and stop trying to be backseat drivers

Who is 'we'?  And how does this discussion interrupt or distract the Moles?  And what backseat driving are you speaking of??? And absolutely no one I've seen here or elsewhere has ever ever ever advocated for cookie-cutter anything.

I'm new here ... maybe I'm doing this wrongly, but I thought this was a thread where we discussed release plans for the new home.  If that means being a cheerleader for the current process - I really am doing this wrong.  If this is a place for a thoughtful exchange (which I'm enjoying btw) about our thoughts on the linden homes releases  why try to shut down the discourse? 

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15 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

I agree, both are reasonable opinions and at opposite ends.  I wonder if you'll feel the same on a waiting list when a random lottery again is drawn and you end up at the end of the list, waiting for 3 years to have a home?  This is not meant to be snarky at all. Just realistic.  We'd  have many more residents complaining when they end up at the end of the line with no alternative to get ahead and be at the front.

Are you saying you believe it's going to take LL three years to build enough new homes to accommodate all their premium members?  I have more faith in them than that.  Wouldn't it be great if LL told us when they expect to have all the new homes built? Then we could do away with these artificial hypothetical.  And this -  would not be the first time I've had to stand in back of the line.  

To answer your question, I would not find it valuable to sit on a three year wait list for a new linden home.  I'd think it was really poor planning on their part if you're right about the timeline and I likely wouldn't maintain my premium standing while waiting for 3 years, but I might reinstate after 3 years when homes become available.  

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while i absolutely believe that the lindens have a timeline on this and it isn't the completely organic and random process some people on this thread appear to believe that it is, i also believe there is no chance in hell of them ever sharing said timeline with their customers. because they're not going to meet it. and people would be super mad about that.

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6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

All the list talk is pretty irrelevant at this point since Patch has recently said that it won't happen.

He did - and I acknowledged as much.  

24 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

It could be.  I don't honestly know. I just know being last sucks, especially with no chance to get up in front.  😉

Someone is going to be the last person to get a new linden home.  I think that's unavoidable.  

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