Nothing for Tinies at the SL16B Shopping Event

[Garnet Psaltery]

There, I said it.  If you buy only Tiny stuff don't bother going.  No point if you're a Dinkie either.  I saw nothing for furries or other non-humans except for a few avatars and four gifts from the always-generous extremely famous skin-maker whose name rhymes with Dahlia (not sure if I'm allowed to give a name so I didn't).

If you're into *****wear or I-just-picked-this-out-of-last-week's-laundry-basket-wear you're in for a treat!  I'm into neither, though there are a few makers of modest and clean outfits present.

So what's the problem?  Did no-one outside of the currently fashionable feel up to selling anything?  Were Tinies frowned upon because omg some of them still use prims?

Where is the de rigueur diversity, eh?

*sighs and unwraps biggie demos*

Edited June 23, 2019 by Garnet Psaltery
Typo.

[Chic Aeon]

3 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

There, I said it.  If you buy only Tiny stuff don't bother going.  No point if you're a Dinkie either.  I saw nothing for furries or other non-humans except for a few avatars and four gifts from the always-generous extremely famous skin-maker whose name rhymes with Dahlia (not sure if I'm allowed to give a name so I didn't).

If you're into *****wear or I-just-picked-this-out-of-last-week's laundry-basket-wear you're in for a treat!  I'm into neither, though there are a few makers of modest and clean outfits present.

So what's the problem?  Did no-one outside of the currently fashionable feel up to selling anything?  Were Tinies frowned upon because omg some of them still use prims?

Where is the de rigeur diversity., eh?

*sighs and unwraps biggie demos*

 

People could only be PICKED for the event  --- if they APPLIED to the event. There are fewer than ever items for men this round and in my mind too many "middle of the road casual womenswear" shops (and very little howear which I personally was happy about but that's another story).   Very few shoes, more hair than usual; even less jewelry  --- it is always different. 

 

I do believe that diversity is part of the goal of the Hop and Shop; it certainly has appeared that way in the past --- but again, a brand couldn't be included if they didn't apply.  It is my guess that was the problem.  I didn't see any kids stuff either or any vehicles, or animesh or .....   

 

 Next time, poke some of your favorite creators to apply maybe!

 

[Fox Wijaya]

when i see what most sellers of male clothes sell at events since some years, the lack of them on this event doesn't really matter, it's at most a exciting texture on a jogging suit or tanktop... more isn't really done for long time, just more of the same... joggingstuf, sneakers, poses, tanktops and tattoes ... bleghhhh
just a very few stand out on this, but don't seem to be interested to join this big one time a year events.

After the 9999th tanktop or 99999999th pair of joggingpants i can't be bothered to tp in, every new event round gets more depressing than previous month

We.. the people with male shapes should get a non mainstream event.. or shoplist    so tired of hoodies, tanks, flossy beards third arms and full inked big muscle shapes...
To warm here to make a real rant

[Claireschen Hesten]

The thing that stood out most to me at the shop and hop was the number of hair stores a lot of places had gifts that required a group join and one that in the past has had their particular sim rammed because they offer store credit wasn't offering anything at discount only a couple of freebies and store credit requiring a group join. something i did like was many booths had a pic of their freebie making it easy to decide if i wanted the gift or not

[Beth Macbain]

I don't think I saw any stores that only had a group gift and not another gift for any and everyone. 

The sad thing is that there are far more women shopping in SL, and women period, so there absolutely isn't the same variety available for men. If the demand was there, someone would create it. 

Second Life needs more men. 

Also, the term 'ho-wear" or however you want to spell it, is really offensive. It may not be your thing, and that's cool, but there's no need to be so derogatory towards women who do wear those clothes. 

[Orwar]

15 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Second Life needs more men.

   It's gotten to a point where one has to ask what came first, the lack of men in SL or the lack of apparel for them? It might just be me, but I see fewer male avatars around these days than I used to, and I know that I for one simply got bored of using a male avatar as there frankly wasn't enough choice of apparel. I still keep an eye on all the men's "fashion" events, but as mentioned - it's just tank tops and board shorts (and poses, and tattoos, and hair - usually all unisex anyway). Then when a creator goes and makes something for men, that isn't a re-textured prefab of a T-shirt or tank top that's already been done to death, they come up with... Suits. And to be blunt, you can only have so many suits.

   There are a few great creators that make stuff for men, but it's usually pretty niche and it can be months between releases. Whenever I went out with the mindset that I was going to treat myself to a whole new outfit, dressing up from top to bottom in new stuff, I'd just get headaches after hours of scouring the MP and going to in-world stores, and in the end buy nothing (perhaps an accessory here or there), and put back my old clothes on. I don't think that there's a lack of buying power in men - sure, it's smaller than for women (but you also have less competition, eh?), but the men I do see often wear clothes from some of the brands that I deem as decent (even if they seldom put their avatars well together otherwise, which can make them look pretty comical).

   As for the 'tinies' community, I don't know how large or active it is as I've never partaken in it myself, but it feels like a lot of the 'communities' that SL advertise for (or used to advertise, and still have remnants of - like the MP 'communities'), are pretty much dead. Goths? Not so much, unless you speak German - or if you want to hang out at EoD where you'll seldom find someone who isn't AFK for the sploders. Vampires? Well, there's vampires still but after all the 'no biting' and the vampire phobia of the mainstream community banning them on sight, it's not doing as well as it used to. Steampunk? Again, there's some old sims that are still around, but dead and desperately outdated. I've personally been chased off sims because I 'appear to be a vampire', and I've been banned from places just for being a Bloodlines player, even if I never did anything on the sim. Anyway, it's a shame LL don't care to include their minority communities in their events.

 

[Chic Aeon]

3 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

The thing that stood out most to me at the shop and hop was the number of hair stores a lot of places had gifts that required a group join and one that in the past has had their particular sim rammed because they offer store credit wasn't offering anything at discount only a couple of freebies and store credit requiring a group join. something i did like was many booths had a pic of their freebie making it easy to decide if i wanted the gift or not

 LOL. I hit the publish key before writing anything. Duh.

 

I got "most" all of the hairs without joining any group; there were a few that I knew I wouldn't like from the photo so didn't try and get those. Not going to try and fight the shoppers to check.

 

I DID get ones from no.match, iconic, elikatira,  lamb, ayashi, vanity hair, limerence and jellyroll.  None of those needed a group. 

 

The rule for the event was that you MUST have a free for all (no group needed ) gift. Many stores had both and sometimes it was difficult to find the gifts.

 

I do agree that one store obviously broke the rules (not the first time) by not having ANY items at a discount. Plenty of chatter about that. Another store didn't use the "discount" method at all (again, part of what you agreed to when applying).  So obviously rules are not always followed or enforced.  

Edited June 23, 2019 by Chic Aeon
added limerence to hair list

[Chic Aeon]

55 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

 

Also, the term 'ho-wear" or however you want to spell it, is really offensive. It may not be your thing, and that's cool, but there's no need to be so derogatory towards women who do wear those clothes. 

Only derogatory if you take it that way. I blog "not safe for work" clothing and the term I used is very prevalent among creators -- including those that make the products.  Personally I lived in Mexico for many winters and never took the term "Gringo" as being derogatory unless SAID to me in that manner. I had friends there that used the term often and lovingly.  It's all in perception. 

 

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Chic Aeon said:

Only derogatory if you take it that way. I blog "not safe for work" clothing and the term I used is very prevalent among creators -- including those that make the products.  Personally I lived in Mexico for many winters and never took the term "Gringo" as being derogatory unless SAID to me in that manner. I had friends there that used the term often and lovingly.  It's all in perception. 

 

It's all fun and games until someone calls you el puto gringo or la puta gringa. 

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Only derogatory if you take it that way. I blog "not safe for work" clothing and the term I used is very prevalent among creators -- including those that make the products.  Personally I lived in Mexico for many winters and never took the term "Gringo" as being derogatory unless SAID to me in that manner. I had friends there that used the term often and lovingly.  It's all in perception. 

Can I get a list of those creators so I can make sure I don't buy from them? My perception is that the word wh*re is derogatory. If a woman wants to call herself that, it's certainly her prerogative, but I don't want to pay money to a creator whose opinion of me is so low. Is there a non-derogatory way to call a woman a wh*re?

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Can I get a list of those creators so I can make sure I don't buy from them? My perception is that the word wh*re is derogatory. If a woman wants to call herself that, it's certainly her prerogative, but I don't want to pay money to a creator whose opinion of me is so low. Is there a non-derogatory way to call a woman a wh*re?

Do you also object to a whole shopping event calling itself Wh*re Coutour? There's a huge list of merchants who participate in that event. Are you going to boycott all of them? I don't have an issue with the word being used personally. Though I'm not a fan of the fashion style. It's just not my cup of tea.

In response to the suggestion that SL needs to be targeted to 20 somethings .. I seriously don't think SL will ever have a wide appeal to that age bracket. Their lives are just too full of living with raising families and building careers, and they don't begin to have the kind of disposable income of those in their 40s and 50s.  They might spend some time online playing games but to invest time in a virtual reality? I don't think so. I think you'd have a better chance targeting late 30s and early 40s. Their families are well established and their earning power is greater. They have more free time on their hands. 

[Beth Macbain]

5 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Do you also object to a whole shopping event calling itself Wh*re Coutour? There's a huge list of merchants who participate in that event. Are you going to boycott all of them? I don't have an issue with the word being used personally. Though I'm not a fan of the fashion style. It's just not my cup of tea.

You know what? You are absolutely right. I shop there and always look forward to the event. 

Thank you for pointing that out... I was wrong in my belligerence, and being extremely hypocritical. 

I'm sorry, @Chic Aeon, for wrongly jumping down your throat. 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Beth Macbain
Added needed apology.

[Polenth Yue]

I also found the shopping side of the event disappointing. My main areas of interest are gardens and (non-breedable) pets. It turned out to be mainly wearables for humans and very little of anything else. I'm not surprised they didn't want people like me, because it's only usually big brands that get in. But there are a whole bunch of big brands that aren't clothes and the like. Only a token number of those were represented.

It wouldn't have mattered if it'd been promoted as a fashion faire, but it was technically supposed to show the range of stuff available in SL.

[Selene Gregoire]

9 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

because it's only usually big brands that get in

This is why I stopped going to events years ago. The big brands have already been well established and are well known. They don't need the advertisement. It's the smaller, lesser known businesses that should be showcased. 

[Chic Aeon]

7 minutes ago, Polenth Yue said:

I also found the shopping side of the event disappointing. My main areas of interest are gardens and (non-breedable) pets. It turned out to be mainly wearables for humans and very little of anything else. I'm not surprised they didn't want people like me, because it's only usually big brands that get in. But there are a whole bunch of big brands that aren't clothes and the like. Only a token number of those were represented.

It wouldn't have mattered if it'd been promoted as a fashion faire, but it was technically supposed to show the range of stuff available in SL.

Again --- or maybe you missed my comment above -- brands had to APPLY in order to be chosen. If they didn't apply, they didn't get in (well perhaps a few were asked to filled in for missing folks; I don't KNOW that -- but possible).  There have been plant brands in the past, not sure about pets. But if the plant folks didn't do well (at least one I remember was a very big name) then it probably wasn't worth the time and effort to set up shop and they simply didn't apply.  Also this is a SALES event and not everyone is into putting their goods on sale. 

 

All that figures in to who ends up at the event. 

 

If you look at the Marketplace OR the inworld stores, it is easy to see that women's fashion is the biggest category and has the most creators.  So it is easy to see why there are so many represented at the Hop and Shop.  

 

 

[Polenth Yue]

55 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Again --- or maybe you missed my comment above -- brands had to APPLY in order to be chosen. If they didn't apply, they didn't get in (well perhaps a few were asked to filled in for missing folks; I don't KNOW that -- but possible).  There have been plant brands in the past, not sure about pets. But if the plant folks didn't do well (at least one I remember was a very big name) then it probably wasn't worth the time and effort to set up shop and they simply didn't apply.  Also this is a SALES event and not everyone is into putting their goods on sale.

All that figures in to who ends up at the event.

If you look at the Marketplace OR the inworld stores, it is easy to see that women's fashion is the biggest category and has the most creators.  So it is easy to see why there are so many represented at the Hop and Shop. 

I saw your comment. I just didn't agree with it. The stores weren't chosen at random, so which category had the most applicants wouldn't have made a difference. The organisers chose the percentages of stores of each type. They could have made different choices.

I don't believe for a moment that they didn't have a flood of stores of many types as everyone tried to get in, but let's suppose that wasn't true and only a handful applied. If an event isn't getting stores of a certain type applying, there is a reason for that which isn't about the stores. Other events have no trouble getting a range of stores. If this event had trouble, it implies people thought they didn't have a chance based on previous events, which is on the organisers to solve. They could have approached people in categories they wanted, if that had been an issue that mattered to them.

Maybe the plant brand didn't sell when they were the only plant store in a sim of clothes shops. This year, they could have chosen to put the few home and garden stores next to each other, but they've spread them out. If that ends up harming sales, and if that harms the chances of those stores applying next year, it's an issue with event organisation rather than the stores.

But even if I'm entirely wrong and the stores present were almost all of those who applied, and the organisers tried to get other stores and were turned down, it doesn't stop it being a disappointing event for me.

[Blush Bravin]

2 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

because it's only usually big brands that get in.

In no stretch of the imagination could my brand be considered a big brand and yet I got it. I also have a variety of products not just women's clothing.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

27 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

In no stretch of the imagination could my brand be considered a big brand and yet I got it. I also have a variety of products not just women's clothing.

Yeah and I bought a couple.... I was only supposed to be there for free things! *shakes fist*

[Chic Aeon]

37 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

In no stretch of the imagination could my brand be considered a big brand and yet I got it. I also have a variety of products not just women's clothing.

Or MINE!  Little fish. "Game Asset Baked Mesh with SMALL footprint LOL)... 

and I have been in four times (I know not why really, but likely being the first one completely set up each time could have  helped LOL . I also sign up on the first day although I have no reason to believe that matters).   And I also do very well and report as such. 

 

There are some very "small" and "niche" brands in Hop and Shop this time; there have  been each round. There are also some new creators  that I have seen at  "Top Tier" (a term Home and Garden folks use quite often anyway) events.  I, personally only know one brand that applied that didn't get in. This was an H and G brand and IMO with "better made products" than some that did get in. But "I" am not the one running the show. The omitted brand is fairly well known as they have been in good events (Tier Two) for many years..  So we can't say that it was ALL about how well-known someone was. We don't KNOW THE CRITERIA. 

 

It is important to remember (and I think this likely is a reasonable assumption for most events, not just Hop and Shop) that the people choosing brands to include are going on information people send in. So how your Marketplace site looks, how your blog or FB page looks, how great your vendor and Flickr photos are --- ALL come into play. I am guessing that some event owners visit main stores and some do not. But anything that someone can see in a couple of clicks is pretty much part of your brand's package -- and MAY need to be looked at if you didn't get in. (This by the way not aimed at Polenth; I didn't do any sleuthing, just a general comment).  

 

I don't agree with Polenth, simply because we don't KNOW if any mesh pet places or plant makers applied (there is a store with animated mesh creatures by the way and one with lots of potted plants (not original plants though so I am not counting that one ).  Or automobile makers, or men's facial hair appliers makers, or (insert missing niche market here). 

 

So HOW could that niche market possibly get in if none of the creators applied?  If three or four folks that make reasonably good looking plants post to this thread and say " I applied and didn't get in!" --THEN I will take that premise seriously.  With all the events I have been in over the years the idea just isn't working for me; it would be too different than the norm.   

 

Personally I am very grateful for the event (and was grateful for it even before I got in). It is big and fun and free to the creators  AND there are some very nice gifts along the way.  No event is ever perfect. This one is better than most IMO. 

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by Chic Aeon
spelling of course

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/23/2019 at 2:40 PM, Polenth Yue said:

I also found the shopping side of the event disappointing. My main areas of interest are gardens and (non-breedable) pets. It turned out to be mainly wearables for humans and very little of anything else. I'm not surprised they didn't want people like me, because it's only usually big brands that get in. But there are a whole bunch of big brands that aren't clothes and the like. Only a token number of those were represented.

It wouldn't have mattered if it'd been promoted as a fashion faire, but it was technically supposed to show the range of stuff available in SL.

Every year there's this issue. Maybe the big home & garden creators are too overworked, and don't want to put out gifts and sale items as required for SLBs. Understood.

One thing that would help is if the Lindens would set up the shopping as, say, Swank and other big events do, putting corridors for women's, men's, home & garden, etc. They could likely fit the existing home & garden on just one sim. It's so hard culling through laggy, crowded sims to find the handful of H&G.

[Polenth Yue]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

One thing that would help is if the Lindens would set up the shopping as, say, Swank and other big events do, putting corridors for women's, men's, home & garden, etc. They could likely fit the existing home & garden on just one sim. It's so hard culling through laggy, crowded sims to find the handful of H&G.

If they'd split it, that would have improved things. I can see some merchants falling a bit between the categories, but they could pick the one that best described their store.

Another thing that occurred to me was varying shop size more. If they had some smaller ones, like market stalls, it'd spread the range of merchants and provide a way for new participants to get a feel for the event (and for organisers to get a feel for who turns up and follows the rules... it's easier to get a last minute replacement for a little stall).

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

One thing that would help is if the Lindens would set up the shopping as, say, Swank and other big events do, putting corridors for women's, men's, home & garden, etc. They could likely fit the existing home & garden on just one sim. It's so hard culling through laggy, crowded sims to find the handful of H&G.

Keep in mind that each "booth" at the Hop and Shops is a 1024 parcel, not a 3 x 6 meter stall. Not all creators use the whole space but many do. The ones that want less space make walls and create their own "smaller" store. 

I think having types of stores intermixed get folks seeing places they would not normally visit and that is -- in part -- the purpose of the event so while they could rearrange the whole venue into "areas" I think it is unlikely. 

And ONE MORE TIME -- if you have a sim for MEN say and there aren't enouhg brands for men applying then there would be no way to fill it. This isn't rul like many other events where the event owner invites folks.  There were many stores that would have had a difficult time deciding where they should be and not enough of the really niche creators to fill a sim. Hence most likely not a workable plan. 

[Prokofy Neva]

Chic, you yourself are a Home & Gardens merchant. I assure you that I don't need to be trapped in a lag fest of women's clothing -- or even men's clothing which I seldom buy -- for 20 minutes just to buy a chair and get a gift. They could easily put all the H&G on one sim, and if it doesn't fill the sim, that's fine, but it would all be on one sim. You need to see how this system loses you business.

[Yhishara Cerise]

On ‎6‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 6:54 AM, Garnet Psaltery said:

There, I said it.  If you buy only Tiny stuff don't bother going.  No point if you're a Dinkie either.  I saw nothing for furries or other non-humans except for a few avatars and four gifts from the always-generous extremely famous skin-maker whose name rhymes with Dahlia (not sure if I'm allowed to give a name so I didn't).

If you're into *****wear or I-just-picked-this-out-of-last-week's-laundry-basket-wear you're in for a treat!  I'm into neither, though there are a few makers of modest and clean outfits present.

So what's the problem?  Did no-one outside of the currently fashionable feel up to selling anything?  Were Tinies frowned upon because omg some of them still use prims?

Where is the de rigueur diversity, eh?

*sighs and unwraps biggie demos*

*blinks eyes and raises eyebrows*  

I didn't know Tinies were even still a thing in SL.   Every time I looked for them I found next to nothing related to them and what I did find was very outdated.   Nice to know they are still around.

***************

As for menswear, I agree, there is a sad lack of male related items in SL and even the "men only" events seem to have a few female items thrown in.   

 

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Chic, you yourself are a Home & Gardens merchant. I assure you that I don't need to be trapped in a lag fest of women's clothing -- or even men's clothing which I seldom buy -- for 20 minutes just to buy a chair and get a gift. They could easily put all the H&G on one sim, and if it doesn't fill the sim, that's fine, but it would all be on one sim. You need to see how this system loses you business.

I understand how you might feel that  an H and G sim would be better for my business  and it does SEEM that way, but time and time again events with ONLY H and G have failed. I have been in several that did so.  Most H and G folks will agree I think (judging only by all the H and G creators I talk with on a continuing basis) that a MIXED event works better for H and G sales.

 

Even if that were not the case and I would do better just with other H and G folks, I am looking at things from a longer view -- about the event as a whole, not just my tiny corner of it.   Honestly, towards the end of the event the shopping is usually very easy and anyone only looking for H and G  only can hop from region to region camming to find H and G of interest (or just hair or just ...). That is pretty much what I did before the event opened. 

 

I am doing well there and have each time, so I have no complaints regarding the setup.  In my mind, Hop and Shop wasn't made to reproduce monthly venues -- indeed there are rarely new exclusive items offered; it reminds me more of shopping a decade ago when giant malls were the rule and wandering part of the experience.  I like the difference.