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"That is not what I meant, at all": How to Connect Respectfully


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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

Oh, things (thingies?) have MUCH improved since the days when xcite was the gold standard! 

Oh, so I've been told. I have to admit that I've never . . . um . . . "sampled" the new mesh ones.

Though I do have a friend who, as I think I've mentioned before, tells me that his "helicopters"?????

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3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's such a fascinating borrowing from RL culture! Are there cultures within SL that value the appearance in women of being "settled and established"?

I think that, for the men whom I have described as valuing what you term "arm candy," the status is carried over into SL because, mostly, they hang out with other men and women of the same cultural background. In that sense, this particular RL model of male-female relationship has sort of colonized SL even though, in practical terms, it actually makes no real sense here.

You see it in the relationship forums so often. People (male and female) that are new in SL and are right away looking for a partner and family. The need to be in a relationship is strong on both genders in and out of SL. No matter the motivations. Probably a good thing, or we could end up being extinct ;)

Being quite on the opposite myself, not overly social, no needs for much bonding at all, I am always somewhat surprised by people looking for SL family, have brothers, sisters, moms and dads, even children. But I know I am "anti social" in that way, so do understand other peoples needs for that are quite different to mine.

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5 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

You see it in the relationship forums so often. People (male and female) that are new in SL and are right away looking for a partner and family. The need to be in a relationship is strong on both genders in and out of SL. No matter the motivations. Probably a good thing, or we could end up being extinct ;)

Being quite on the opposite myself, not overly social, no needs for much bonding at all, I am always somewhat surprised by people looking for SL family, have brothers, sisters, moms and dads, even children. But I know I am "anti social" in that way, so do understand other peoples needs for that are quite different to mine.

I don't think there's anything at all wrong with wanting a "family" or stable relationship, as such. Where issues may arise is when those who are looking for that (be they men or women) bring other kinds of baggage, by way of attitudes and expectations, to that relationship. I'm sure, though, that there is a very diverse mix of kinds of "family" or "couple" in SL.

The thing that puzzles me about the particular model I was describing -- the sort of old-fashioned male who wants the status of "having a woman" -- is how little it seems to have to do with actually liking the prospective partner.

In another thread -- the "worst lines" one, I think -- I described my experience of getting proposals from men at a particular sim where I was working literally within a half an hour or less of chatting with them. I guess they'd decided I wasn't actually toxic, or something, and I would "do"?

Again, I mean . . . that's fine, I suppose. And the men in question were very nice, and took rejection with a sort of shrug.

But . . . weird.

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4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The thing that puzzles me about the particular model I was describing -- the sort of old-fashioned male who wants the status of "having a woman" -- is how little it seems to have to do with actually liking the prospective partner.

In another thread -- the "worst lines" one, I think -- I described my experience of getting proposals from men at a particular sim where I was working literally within a half an hour or less of chatting with them. I guess they'd decided I wasn't actually toxic, or something, and I would "do"?

I guess its somewhat comparable how pickups work in for example a bar. You chat up with someone, hit off well and in no time can be ending up flirting/kissing without really actually knowing each other or if you actually even like each other outside of the "bar setting". Can be good enough for a night of fun though, and just that is what a lot in SL are looking for too

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Traditionally marriage was more of a business arrangement, wasn't it? Some cultures, unfortunately, still view a woman as property to be sold between a father and the prospective groom. It's not about liking the woman for who she is as a human, it's about how much money/property the father has and if she looks like she has good birthing hips. 

And then there is the whole debacle surrounding the incels, of which there are sadly more than a few in SL and you can find them in the pseudo-BDSM communities. They believe they are owed a woman of their choosing. Or women, since the first one will invariably get used up and become worthless. They don't actually like women. They resent them. 

The incels unfortunately have a hero now (no, not Elliot Rodgers) in their ideal twisted version of masculinity. Had he not been born into money, he would be the typical bitter hateful incel. Instead, he has collected and discarded trophy wives and stolen a presidency.

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6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

The thing that puzzles me about the particular model I was describing -- the sort of old-fashioned male who wants the status of "having a woman" -- is how little it seems to have to do with actually liking the prospective partner.

In another thread -- the "worst lines" one, I think -- I described my experience of getting proposals from men at a particular sim where I was working literally within a half an hour or less of chatting with them. I guess they'd decided I wasn't actually toxic, or something, and I would "do"?

Again, I mean . . . that's fine, I suppose. And the men in question were very nice, and took rejection with a sort of shrug.

But . . . weird.

I agree it’s weird. Like Zeta said, peruse the relationship forum and you’ll see a lot of people, male and female, looking for a partner, any partner, with no particular stipulations. They just want anyone available to fill that partner box. It makes me a bit sad for some reason.

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When i joined  sl i was told some viewed this as a game , others to create , i was also told that  some who viewed this as a game part was to see how many partners you could obtain  on many levels  thus  the avi who asks for relationship   usually a guy 

but wanting pixel sex  and getting it got higher score ,

                      I do not know if there was or is any truth to what i was told but i do know the first few months  it was very uncomfortable  and i hid in my linden home and slowly learned to build a few modest items.

                    I look as second life as a outlet to create  and if i am blessed with friends  i am grateful.   I still get confused when i meet couples in second life  and i think in real life they are couples and no  just role playing , it is very confusing  🙁

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3 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I guess its somewhat comparable how pickups work in for example a bar. You chat up with someone, hit off well and in no time can be ending up flirting/kissing without really actually knowing each other or if you actually even like each other outside of the "bar setting". Can be good enough for a night of fun though, and just that is what a lot in SL are looking for too

Yes, in bars, or on Tinder, or whatever.

I'd have been pretty unsurprised by that . . . but these men made absolutely no reference to sex. There was no "come-on," no sense that they wanted to boast about their own sexual prowess. I didn't even get the usual "Wow UR hawt" kinda stuff. It was really and truly about the relationship status, rather than a hookup.

6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Traditionally marriage was more of a business arrangement, wasn't it?

That is almost, I think, where this was coming from. It's a sort of evolution of that idea, with the concession to modernity that, at least, the prospective bride must consent.

I'm actually sort of convinced that it was a weird blending of the pursuit of a modern middle class idea of acquisitiveness, and this older notion of a prescribed and very hierarchical roles in a family relationship. Sort of a translation of modern models into a very traditional context.

9 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

It makes me a bit sad for some reason.

It does me, too. I don't know that it should, intrinsically. Lots of people use SL to attain things they can't achieve in RL, and arguably, a girlfriend or boyfriend is a bit like that?

What would make me more legitimately sad is knowing that the resulting relationship was in some way or another repressive. But I'm sure that many, maybe most, aren't?

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Oddly, over my years here, I've run into far more women that want the "SL marriage" thing.  They view it as a status thing - like they have to prove that they can get a man here to commit or something.

The vast majority of the men I meet here want nothing whatsoever to do with that.

 

As I've so often said in these type of conversations - I truly believe that so much of it boils down partly to where we go in SL, how we present ourselves, and how WE actually view the interactions we have.

 

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Oddly, over my years here, I've run into far more women that want the "SL marriage" thing.  They view it as a status thing - like they have to prove that they can get a man here to commit or something.

The vast majority of the men I meet here want nothing whatsoever to do with that.

Purely anecdotally, based solely on my own experience, I'd agree that you're right about this overall.

And that, as Eva says, is kind of sad.

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

As I've so often said in these type of conversations - I truly believe that so much of it boils down partly to where we go in SL, how we present ourselves, and how WE actually view the interactions we have.

Yep, absolutely. SL is hugely diverse -- way more than I think any of us can really conceptualize on the basis of our own little slices of it. I think that's one of the reasons I find my own little glimpses into different models -- like the wife-hunting men I've described -- so alien and hard to fathom.

Generalizations are probably impossible, and so we need models for interaction that don't assume things about other people, but that are instead built upon connecting by learning about each other. That's one of the reasons why the "UR hawt wanna have sx" lines seem so very stupid and lame: in some contexts and cultures, they might work, but they can't possibly work on all women, and they certainly don't on most of us posting here.

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57 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh, so I've been told. I have to admit that I've never . . . um . . . "sampled" the new mesh ones.

Though I do have a friend who, as I think I've mentioned before, tells me that his "helicopters"?????

I did see a mesh attachment and it absolutely did helicopter, meaning that it moved around and around like helicopter blades, not a pretty sight nor would I want to have that in....nvm.....move along....nothing to see here....*slinks out the door*

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25 minutes ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

I guess its somewhat comparable how pickups work in for example a bar. You chat up with someone, hit off well and in no time can be ending up flirting/kissing without really actually knowing each other or if you actually even like each other outside of the "bar setting". Can be good enough for a night of fun though, and just that is what a lot in SL are looking for too

Don't forget that in the making-out-with-a-stranger-in-a-bar scenario, alcohol is often involved. 🍻

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19 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

When i joined  sl i was told some viewed this as a game , others to create , i was also told that  some who viewed this as a game part was to see how many partners you could obtain  on many levels  thus  the avi who asks for relationship   usually a guy 

but wanting pixel sex  and getting it got higher score ,

                      I do not know if there was or is any truth to what i was told but i do know the first few months  it was very uncomfortable  and i hid in my linden home and slowly learned to build a few modest items.

Wow, Rose. That's awful. I'm so sorry! Who on earth is telling you such things?

More importantly, maybe . . . are there places in SL where this is true???

I can't understate how glad I am that you learned how to create, and make SL your own.

21 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

I look as second life as a outlet to create  and if i am blessed with friends  i am grateful.   I still get confused when i meet couples in second life  and i think in real life they are couples and no  just role playing , it is very confusing  🙁

Oh, I think that there are lots of relationships here that are a kind of role playing, but there are others that are very real indeed. And these often do spill over in RL.

Years ago, I found myself in two separate (and not, I hasten to add, simultaneous) relationships. Both were very "real" in the sense that they were loving and emotionally (and also, to some degree, sexually) fulfilling. SL relationships aren't the same as RL ones, but they can go very far beyond RP.

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I didn't come here for any sort of relationship, and that position has caused me a few headaches when guys I friended and hung out with occasionally tried to ramp it up, despite being told from the beginning where I stand on this.

Because unfettered freedom here is sacrosanct to me, it's the very reason which keeps me sane and engaged with SL.

But as I once said before, the wedding day thing is hugely compelling. Wedding days are such a high point in RL, and being able to dress up here and do it here.....well, I don't know why they don't offer a sham wedding day package...……….haha! It would be such a thrill to spend a couple of hours with friends, all glammed up and taking loads of pics.

But it would cost a lot of money...…..well, just like RL then...…..

Maybe I should get a life...………..9_9

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

That's such a fascinating borrowing from RL culture! Are there cultures within SL that value the appearance in women of being "settled and established"?

I think that, for the men whom I have described as valuing what you term "arm candy," the status is carried over into SL because, mostly, they hang out with other men and women of the same cultural background. In that sense, this particular RL model of male-female relationship has sort of colonized SL even though, in practical terms, it actually makes no real sense here.

You couldn't pay me enough to be some jackarse's eye arm candy.

Oh wait...

Maybe you could, if you're rich enough to afford me. Just don't expect to get any sex out of it. Unless you want to draw back a nub.

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