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"That is not what I meant, at all": How to Connect Respectfully


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It is good to see each others perceptions  and know  that we can disagree with  others  and still  be there for each other. We  all  have different life  experiences be it  in real  life or second  life. Some are very passionate about delicate issues...  LOOK beyond  the words  for   words  will never  truly describe  the depth of the deepest pain or the most blissful joy  but  into the eyes and souls of each,,,,,   and  love each other  right where they stand regardless if  you agree or not   we have much to learn from each other   and listen with  the heart of empathy love and compassion,  let  us honor each other  with  respect and love  .... and  understanding,,,,        

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Having recently experienced a rash of people attempting to engage or connect with me for the first time in a manner that I've found annoying, disrespectful, and, to put it mildly, ineffective, I thoug

My husband accused me of shopping the other day.. Him:You've been on SL shopping again haven't you?!! Me:No honey ,I swear! I was only having Sex with strangers!! You gotta believe me! \o/

I think it's fascinating, and suggestive, that, nearly whenever this issue of assigning blame to a woman for what she chooses to wear arises, this is the analogy that is employed. It is interesti

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27 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

sighs

Well, ladies, we had a good discussion going for a while. 🙌

 

Well, Jagix is welcome to correct me, but I think his warning relates to two things. First, the back-and-forth and exchange of "insults" with another (in this case, recent) contributor to the thread, and second, the discussion of pornography.

In the case of the former, it's often safer just to ignore any apparent provocations, prevent things from escalating, and just keep the more civil discussion going without reference to the other things that may be popping up.

In the case of the "adult" material -- LL considers the GD forum a "general" forum, meaning that a discussion of "adult" topics is prohibited. Talking about gender roles, connection and interaction, respect, and so forth is usually going to be fine. A discussion of the impacts of porn is likely to lead into some distinctly non-PG territory, however, and so is verboten.

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50 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

i am sorry if any  of  my  posts  were not ok. did not ever  intend to upset  anyone . hugs to  all

You have said nothing that is in any way "not ok" Rose. Your contributions have been thoughtful, positive, sensitive, and much appreciated.

You have nothing at all to apologize for, and I hope you continue to speak your piece here.

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, Jagix is welcome to correct me, but I think his warning relates to two things. First, the back-and-forth and exchange of "insults" with another (in this case, recent) contributor to the thread, and second, the discussion of pornography.

In the case of the former, it's often safer just to ignore any apparent provocations, prevent things from escalating, and just keep the more civil discussion going without reference to the other things that may be popping up.

In the case of the "adult" material -- LL considers the GD forum a "general" forum, meaning that a discussion of "adult" topics is prohibited. Talking about gender roles, connection and interaction, respect, and so forth is usually going to be fine. A discussion of the impacts of porn is likely to lead into some distinctly non-PG territory, however, and so is verboten.

You win the No-Prize Prize and may quote this in your signature if so desired.

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I was gonna reply to stuff, but I'm late and there's a Linden, so I'll say this.

Being completely serious for a change, I've worked in the security industry for 15 years, I've seen things.

One of the things I've seen; For every bad person I've dealt with, I've seen just as many people that refuse to take any responsibility for how they present themselves to others. The unreasonable extremes on both sides always make reasonable discussion so difficult.

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I rather think that nobody is responsible for the words and deeds of an a**hole except for that a**hole himself.

And when person "X" (of either gender) dresses nicely - even sexy - to feel good about themselves, they're not responsible for anything another person "Y" does or says. The responsibility is solely at that other person "Y" who says or does things that hurt "X" one way or the other.

As I said before, I've seen workers wolf-whistling even after Muslim women who were fully dressed in their usual all-covering "modest" clothes, including headscarf. Such kind of people don't mind what a woman wears, she will be seen by them as an object of their desire, an object to have and use, simply because she is a woman. They have absolutely no respect. And how they react when they see that someone, who they first thought to be a woman, is in fact male or TG - so much vitriol and hatred is in them, you would think they were raised in hell.

Also, when I see my Turkish neighbor: he has no respect towards women at all, not even towards his wife. I made him respect me, after he attempted a physical attack during a heated discussion. He doesn't attempt that anymore. But that does not mean that he gives a flying f*** about what I say to him, especially when I tell him to treat his wife in a civilized manner. *shrugs* Once an a**hole, always an a**hole.

Edited by ThorinII
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Wouldn't it be something, to be able to go back in time and study the evolutionary process which led humans to this present position.

Why such hatred exists. How is that beneficial to our survival? I wonder if it exists in all cultures?

We'll never know the truth of how we became what we are, but obviously greed, selfishness, and hatred have prevailed. That's not to say we are all like that, and when you meet a benevolent soul, it can be truly mind blowing.

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24 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

Wouldn't it be something, to be able to go back in time and study the evolutionary process which led humans to this present position.

Why such hatred exists. How is that beneficial to our survival? I wonder if it exists in all cultures?

We'll never know the truth of how we became what we are, but obviously greed, selfishness, and hatred have prevailed. That's not to say we are all like that, and when you meet a benevolent soul, it can be truly mind blowing.

In my experience, the vast majority of people, if you take the time get to know them and really listen to their perspectives, are not hateful. The few that are tend to have other stuff going on in their lives that skew their perspectives.  

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4 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

and there's a Linden

ACK! OMG, so there is!

/me checks in mirror to make sure she is presentably attired.

4 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

For every bad person I've dealt with, I've seen just as many people that refuse to take any responsibility for how they present themselves to others.

Sure. No one is likely to deny that there are people who dress inappropriately, or even what you call irresponsibly, for particular contexts.

But, again, you're sort of treating those who make poor clothing choices as the flip side of the behavior of those who actively and deliberately harm others, through harassment, sexual assault, etc. Neither is good, but they are also not even close to being the same thing. And when you talk about them as you do here, rolling them together as twin causes of harassment and rape, you are implying, really, that they are.

It's not that I disagree with your basic insight. it's that the way you are framing it at least implicitly involves victim blaming. And, frankly, the history of serious crimes like rape is absolutely replete with that particular line of defense. Rapists have, literally, been found "not guilty" because a jury decided that the woman was inappropriately dressed.

Can you not at least concede that these are two very different issues, and discussions, and that conflating them like this provides those looking for excuses or justifications for criminal behaviour ammunition?

4 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

The unreasonable extremes on both sides always make reasonable discussion so difficult.

Do you not think that this has been, for the greater part, a "reasonable discussion"? I think it has.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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(This is a very interesting thread, thank you, Scylla. I've skimmed it but not read it in full. I actually wasn't sanctioned in the last one, bless the Lindens, but I did find that it left me feeling a bit drained.)

10 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

For every bad person I've dealt with, I've seen just as many people that refuse to take any responsibility for how they present themselves to others. The unreasonable extremes on both sides always make reasonable discussion so difficult.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?

 

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Just an aside - there are acceptable dress norms in some countries. It is both polite and prudent to follow them, regardless of your personal philosophy on the subject. 

SL has dress norms too, imposed by individual sim owners. We all know what happens when we decide we are above the rules. 😛

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21 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

(This is a very interesting thread, thank you, Scylla. I've skimmed it but not read it in full. I actually wasn't sanctioned in the last one, bless the Lindens, but I did find that it left me feeling a bit drained.)

I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you elaborate?

 

Which part?

Mostly I mean the terrible people in society ruin everything for the good ones. 

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1 hour ago, Gadget Portal said:

Which part?

Mostly I mean the terrible people in society ruin everything for the good ones. 

Ok, but I was thinking more about the "people that refuse to take any responsibility for how they present themselves to others" and "unreasonable extremes on both sides" parts. Can you be a bit more specific?

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:52 PM, Beth Macbain said:

29cd572c4fb8b566469956af5d1f4751a17084a2.gif.cd539b802665257a60d7f5b699f7e832.gif

 

Awww, gotta love Nathan Fillion. ❤️ I can envision him on his own houseboat already: "Did something just fly off my gorram ship?!" LOL. Thanks for this wonderful trip down memory lane. :) 

Edited by kiramanell
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On 6/24/2019 at 9:35 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But, again, you're sort of treating those who make poor clothing choices as the flip side of the behavior of those who actively and deliberately harm others, through harassment, sexual assault, etc. Neither is good, but they are also not even close to being the same thing. And when you talk about them as you do here, rolling them together as twin causes of harassment and rape, you are implying, really, that they are.

It's not that I disagree with your basic insight. it's that the way you are framing it at least implicitly involves victim blaming. And, frankly, the history of serious crimes like rape is absolutely replete with that particular line of defense. Rapists have, literally, been found "not guilty" because a jury decided that the woman was inappropriately dressed.

No, I'm not. And I'm not a judge, and I certainly wasn't on any of those juries. Don't connect what I'm saying to their mistakes. 

On 6/24/2019 at 9:35 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Can you not at least concede that these are two very different issues, and discussions, and that conflating them like this provides those looking for excuses or justifications for criminal behaviour ammunition?

Evaluating the risks and rewards of your own behavior/clothing/whatever never excuses or justifies criminal acts, but can often help protect you from them. That's how they're related.

Again, to be clear; Bad people are 100% responsible for their own bad behavior. I've heard all sorts of excuses, they're never any good. 

That said, we can take steps to avoid being targets. It's not right or fair that we should have to, but it's true.

Protecting yourself isn't about shifting blame, it's about protecting yourself. Full stop. Anyone that thinks otherwise is doing it wrong.

On 6/24/2019 at 9:35 AM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Do you not think that this has been, for the greater part, a "reasonable discussion"? I think it has.

This one has, so far. Previously mentioned judges and juries have made others not so.

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15 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Again, to be clear; Bad people are 100% responsible for their own bad behavior. I've heard all sorts of excuses, they're never any good. 

That said, we can take steps to avoid being targets. It's not right or fair that we should have to, but it's true.

To women, regarding the clothing choices we make, here's how this reads:

Bad people are 100% responsible for their own bad behavior.*

*terms and conditions may apply

Edited by Beth Macbain
Important Comma Placement Issues
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5 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Ok, but I was thinking more about the "people that refuse to take any responsibility for how they present themselves to others" and "unreasonable extremes on both sides" parts. Can you be a bit more specific?

Wearing a "Cops suck, smoke weed!" t-shirt into a police station and being surprised when the police aren't very courteous is an example of the first.

"She was asking for it, wearing that skirt." is an example of the second.

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