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If an SL creator was trying to raise money by promising to make a new product in SL and showed some concept pics, would you pay for that product before it even came out? If no, would there be any circumstances that would change your mind?

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Never pay for something in full up front that hasn't been completed and in your possession. If they need funding they should be willing to accept refundable deposits. If they are asking for payment in full up front, don't walk away, run!

Half now, half on delivery isn't uncommon. But make sure the perms are what you need. My exclusive squash blossom necklace isn't worn often because the creator made the damn thing no copy and refused to let me have a copiable copy. Live and learn.

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I did once based on the creators past products that we owned.  The item ended up being delayed about 3 months longer than promised and was disappointing.  So no, on experience I wouldn't do it again. 

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23 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

If an SL creator was trying to raise money by promising to make a new product in SL and showed some concept pics, would you pay for that product before it even came out? If no, would there be any circumstances that would change your mind?

I would pay before it came out IF I could see examples of their work inworld and also know they had a reputation of completing projects.

Best to pay in thirds though, or half up front and half upon completion.

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SL has such a buyer beware culture, I just couldn’t do it. Half now, half when it’s done is a maybe.

The closest I’ve ever come to getting custom was a mesh head. It was a lot of money and I just couldn’t get rid of the feeling I’d be disappointed no matter what, so I didn’t do it.

 

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People do, it's called Kickstarter (or Patreon) and others. Though the "half now, half later" doesn't really work for a "fund-raiser." It's like asking the people who paid to receive your product (or perks) to pay for them twice.

Perspective is a weird thing and we could probably have an 80-page argument over the concept of kickstarting/investing/prepurchasing/promises and whether it's a good thing or not.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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When I create something custom the customer is trusting me by paying some money up front before I've worked on anything at all, and in the end I am trusting them to pay in full after the item/project has been transferred to them.
Only had 1 problem in 15 years, and that was a deeding issue.
Some customers have even paid the full amount up front. I've sure heard some stories though...of creators who take the money and run.
And I can't count how many people have experienced a total mess with a creator and said "I wish I'd have hired you initially even though you cost more".
So yes, be careful, and get everything spelled out on paper before the work begins -- a spec sheet.

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31 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

People do, it's called Kickstarter (or Patreon) and others. 

Yeah, was trying to wrap my head around that whole thing. We seem to be more cautious in SL though we only deal in virtual goods.

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1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

If an SL creator was trying to raise money by promising to make a new product in SL and showed some concept pics, would you pay for that product before it even came out?

What benefit would I get for pre-paying over just waiting to see the result?  I need some sort of incentive to break my "No Demo; No Sale" motto.

 

1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

If no, would there be any circumstances that would change your mind?

Lower cost is typical.  Store credit would be similar.  Maybe include an exclusive version for backers.

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1 hour ago, Bree Giffen said:

Yeah, was trying to wrap my head around that whole thing. We seem to be more cautious in SL though we only deal in virtual goods.

Kickstarter is no different. You're giving money towards a promise of a product, but you're not entitled to a refund in the case that something goes wrong and the project runs out of money before anything gets finished. Sure, you could try a class-action lawsuit, but even if you got a lot of people to jump in and the court ordered an amount to be paid, you're probably not going to even get back the money you paid initially.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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2 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

 We seem to be more cautious in SL though we only deal in virtual goods.

Not really, if you go by the TMP Legacy thread(s) over in the appearance forum....just depends on what the thing is.

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6 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

If an SL creator was trying to raise money by promising to make a new product in SL and showed some concept pics, would you pay for that product before it even came out? If no, would there be any circumstances that would change your mind?

I would not, except under one circumstance only, and that is if I had commissioned a creator to make a custom item for me, to my own specifications. And custom work is not cheap, so even then, I would only do so if I had a formal contract including their real name and contact info (I would be willing to give mine in return) so that I had some recourse for a refund in the event that the product was never delivered.

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16 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Yeah, was trying to wrap my head around that whole thing. We seem to be more cautious in SL though we only deal in virtual goods.

And mass producing an item in SL comes with none of the expenses that production in RL includes, which is also part of it. 

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The quote from Wimpy in the Popeye cartoon comes to mind: "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today"Content creators in SL are a vital part of our enjoyment and the SL economy.  That being said, and again saying this as a content creator (full disclosure), we create and build products to sell.  I'm a firm believer of trying demos before making any purchase and always provide a demo.  We should expect this from other creators, but such is not always the case and we've all been burned on buying something without trying it first.  Buying it before it's been created is the ultimate risk in my opinion.  Research, development, cost of materials and time spent making said creations is the risk we take as creators when we enter a consumer market for profit.  The end user should not be expected to bear the burden of something that someone has dreamed-up without something tangible.  If the product is good enough and is marketed accordingly, people will respond in-kind by making purchases, but only after trying that same item.  Just my opinion, YMMV.

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Actually looking at other Patreon pages people are using for SL related things, they're pretty broad (brand-related), rather than just for a single product. Hopefully this list is useful for ideas.

https://www.patreon.com/niranvsl - One tier, $1 or more, no tangible benefits, you'll just be supporting development.
https://www.patreon.com/sunkevin5885 - One tier, $1 or more, access to videos and Discord.
https://www.patreon.com/vmdesigns - One tier, $5 or more, free weekly releases.
https://www.patreon.com/catznip - Tiers from $1, no tangible benefits, you'll just be supporting development.
https://www.patreon.com/mskavanagh - Tiers from $1, access to exclusive SL group with lifetime discounts and free releases.
https://www.patreon.com/jasx_games - Tiers from $1, access to beta products and Discord.
https://www.patreon.com/digitalfarmsystem - Tiers from $1, monthly in-world game items.
https://www.patreon.com/thebadguys - Tiers from $1, I think this is memes?
https://www.patreon.com/piggu - Tiers from $1, access to beta testing, free releases, and .dae files.
https://www.patreon.com/vwewrestling - Tiers from $1, exclusive/early access, discounts, IRL postcards.
https://www.patreon.com/DarkEcoKat - Tiers from $2, lineart PSDs, IRL stickers and sketch, and monthly free avatars.
https://www.patreon.com/TheWastelands - Tiers from $3, access to Discord, early info, and some non-specific rewards.
https://www.patreon.com/AuraPatreons - Tiers from $5, in-world game items and bonuses.
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=19086072 - Tiers from $5, it's Progeny. Discord access, monthly boosts, beta/alpha testing.
https://www.patreon.com/katarzyncia - Tiers from $8, access to download files from current month's posts, higher tiers allow you to download from older posts.

Those were all that I could find with a decent amount of supporters (ordered by tiers/amount), but for fairness I'm going to just link the rest because there weren't many.

https://www.patreon.com/alteria
https://www.patreon.com/TobiathTendaze
https://www.patreon.com/maeglutz
https://www.patreon.com/madamhypnosis
https://www.patreon.com/Omegey
https://www.patreon.com/progenyuniverse

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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Curious why it would be needed? I mean, for RL products I can imagine start up costs. In SL, its not like the need to buy raw materials and stuff? Its just their time they need to invest? Or am I missing something here?

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2 hours ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

Curious why it would be needed? I mean, for RL products I can imagine start up costs. In SL, its not like the need to buy raw materials and stuff? Its just their time they need to invest? Or am I missing something here?

Are you asking me (or about Patreon)? Regardless, do you think time is worthless? There are a lot of immaterial projects people can only work on because other people are willing to pay for them to do it. The money is an incentive to make the project worth working on during what little free time they may have, along with putting other things to the side that they would normally prefer doing. Past a certain point, it can also allow them to leave their other jobs to the side entirely and be able to focus on what they actually want to be doing.

Why do you charge for your products on Marketplace anyway? It doesn't cost anything to make/list them, only 10L per upload but your prices are higher than that.

To think/imply that material cost is the only one that matters is silly.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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