Can't rotate object around Z axis

[Rhiannon108]

I placed an object on the ground on my sky platform and it won't rotate around the Z axis (the way a human would turn if they turned while standing). I tried placing it while on the regular ground at ground level and the same thing happened. This is an object that I had successfully manipulated before on another property. So, I can't move it into the proper position in my landscape as it will only rotate around the other two axes. Any ideas?

[Erwin Solo]

I recommend http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Natoma/210/164/28 , also known as "Ivory Tower of Primitives."  There is an outstanding series of step by step illustrations on object manipulation right inside the door, including the two alternative coordinate systems that few people use, but can muchly speed up building on a curve.

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Erwin Solo

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

14 minutes ago, Rhiannon108 said:

I placed an object on the ground on my sky platform and it won't rotate around the Z axis (the way a human would turn if they turned while standing). I tried placing it while on the regular ground at ground level and the same thing happened. This is an object that I had successfully manipulated before on another property. So, I can't move it into the proper position in my landscape as it will only rotate around the other two axes. Any ideas?

Have you tried changing the number in the rotation section of the edit box to force it to flip around? 

[Aethelwine]

Does the object have a script in it that might be causing the problem? Perhaps turn scripts off either in the parcel or the object itself (only if it copy in case it breaks) and then rezz it again and try turning it.

[RoxyCyn]

I build quite a bit on a daily basis and see something similar to that on occasion, sometimes more frequently than others.  In my circumstances it tends to be after I've been working in-world or online for a long time, performing a lot of editing of objects and suddenly I'm unable to move objects much in the manner described and precipitates an impending crash.  I've found that if I relog it cures the problem.  While logging out too, I'll notice that the log out procedure happens much faster than normal to the point that the log out will begin, then bang, I'm offline very suddenly, rather than the usual slower length of time that I would normally see.  And, I've been seeing this quite frequently lately, in the past week.  It's not related to any particular region's performance as I've been seeing it lately on a new region that I'm in the process of building and there are very few scripts running in that region at this time, with spare time being 20mps or better.  It seems to 'build-up' over time as I work more and more editing and placing particular objects.  Not sure if this is what is occurring in your case, but it does work for me.  When it occurs, try a quick relog and see if that helps.  Good luck.

[Rhiannon108]

7 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Have you tried changing the number in the rotation section of the edit box to force it to flip around? 

I tried that and it had the same result (rotated the object around the wrong axis).

[Rhiannon108]

4 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

Does the object have a script in it that might be causing the problem? Perhaps turn scripts off either in the parcel or the object itself (only if it copy in case it breaks) and then rezz it again and try turning it.

This happens with one other object (the end piece for my garden path set [but, not the other pieces in the set]), too, and that one doesn't have any scripts running. The first object (a hearth which has a fire and turning piece of meat) does have scripts but when I click on them it says I don't have permissions to view or edit them. I hit refresh. I don't know how to turn off scripts in an object other than deleting them. How?

Do I turn off scripts in the parcel by unchecking anyone on the Run Scripts box?

[Rhiannon108]

2 hours ago, RoxyCyn said:

I build quite a bit on a daily basis and see something similar to that on occasion, sometimes more frequently than others.  In my circumstances it tends to be after I've been working in-world or online for a long time, performing a lot of editing of objects and suddenly I'm unable to move objects much in the manner described and precipitates an impending crash.  I've found that if I relog it cures the problem.  While logging out too, I'll notice that the log out procedure happens much faster than normal to the point that the log out will begin, then bang, I'm offline very suddenly, rather than the usual slower length of time that I would normally see.  And, I've been seeing this quite frequently lately, in the past week.  It's not related to any particular region's performance as I've been seeing it lately on a new region that I'm in the process of building and there are very few scripts running in that region at this time, with spare time being 20mps or better.  It seems to 'build-up' over time as I work more and more editing and placing particular objects.  Not sure if this is what is occurring in your case, but it does work for me.  When it occurs, try a quick relog and see if that helps.  Good luck.

I tried logging out and back in and the same two objects behaved that way. I rezzed other stuff and all of that behaved normally.

[Whirly Fizzle]

You might be hitting Gimbal Lock.

BUG-213 - Rotation -X and Rotation -Z are changed from 0 to 180 degree while changing value of Rotation -Y property

[KT Kingsley]

31 minutes ago, Rhiannon108 said:

I tried that and it had the same result (rotated the object around the wrong axis).

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but remember that the rotation numbers in the edit floater refer to the object's local rotation (its rotation about its own axes). The in-world edit tools will show the world axes unless you switch them from World to Local using the drop-down towards the top right if the edit floater.

[Rhiannon108]

54 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

You might be hitting Gimbal Lock.

BUG-213 - Rotation -X and Rotation -Z are changed from 0 to 180 degree while changing value of Rotation -Y property

How do I un-hit Gimbal Lock?

[Rhiannon108]

38 minutes ago, KT Kingsley said:

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but remember that the rotation numbers in the edit floater refer to the object's local rotation (its rotation about its own axes). The in-world edit tools will show the world axes unless you switch them from World to Local using the drop-down towards the top right if the edit floater.

I haven't tried that. Not sure if it will help. Object won't rotate around Z axis but will around X and Y. Both world and local should have Z-rotation.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Rhiannon108 said:

How do I un-hit Gimbal Lock?

I've never seen gimbal locks with manual rotation in SL so I'm out on a limb here but try this simple little script:

default
{
   state_entry()
   {
      llSetRot(<0,0,0,1>);
   }
}

What it does, is reset the rotation parameters using the quaternion the data is actually stored as. That should break the gimbal lock if that's the problem.

Ogh, of course! Don't forget to delete the script afterwards. 😉

In case you wonder, quaternions are used for rotation in 3D applications partly because it's less prone to gimbal locks than degrees and radians, partly because it's something neither humans nor computers can understand so we can handle it on equal terms.

Edited June 17, 2019 by ChinRey
Typo

[Rhiannon108]

29 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I've never seen gimbal locks with manual rotation in SL so I'm out on a limb here but try this simple little script:

default
{
   state_entry()
   {
      llSetRot(<0,0,0,1>);
   }
}

What it does, is reset the rotation parameters using the quaternion the data is actually stored as. That should break the gimbal lock if that's the problem.

Ogh, of course! DOn't forget to delete the script afterwards. 😉

In case you wonder, quaternions are used for rotation in 3D applications partly because it's less prone to gimbal locks than degrees and radians, partly because it's something neither humans nor computers can understand so we can handle it on equal terms.

Thanks. I will try that. Is there a tutorial on how to add that script? I've never added a script to an object.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Rhiannon108 said:

Thanks. I will try that. Is there a tutorial on how to add that script? I've never added a script to an object.

In the object's inventory, Click on "New script" button, then open the default script that appers there, replace the text in it and save. Alternatively you can create the script in your ivnentory and drag it onto the object but you'll have to open the object ivnentory anyway to delete the script so you might as well create it there. I do assume you can modify the object btw.

Keep it mind that I can't guarantee it'll work. In theory it should release a gimbal lock but I've never tried it msyelf and besides, we don't know if that is the problem you have.

 

[Rhiannon108]

46 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

In the object's inventory, Click on "New script" button, then open the default script that appers there, replace the text in it and save. Alternatively you can create the script in your ivnentory and drag it onto the object but you'll have to open the object ivnentory anyway to delete the script so you might as well create it there. I do assume you can modify the object btw.

Keep it mind that I can't guarantee it'll work. In theory it should release a gimbal lock but I've never tried it msyelf and besides, we don't know if that is the problem you have.

 

I'll try it later to see if it works. Now I have read a bit on gimbal locks and the behavior is consistent with that issue. Holy *****! I have one undergraduate and two graduate courses in statistics under my belt and SL physics is proving to be challenging! Who knew that being an elf and trying to set up a house and garden would involve so much maths!!! Holy Cow!

[Rhiannon108]

3 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I've never seen gimbal locks with manual rotation in SL so I'm out on a limb here but try this simple little script:

default
{
   state_entry()
   {
      llSetRot(<0,0,0,1>);
   }
}

What it does, is reset the rotation parameters using the quaternion the data is actually stored as. That should break the gimbal lock if that's the problem.

Ogh, of course! Don't forget to delete the script afterwards. 😉

In case you wonder, quaternions are used for rotation in 3D applications partly because it's less prone to gimbal locks than degrees and radians, partly because it's something neither humans nor computers can understand so we can handle it on equal terms.

So, do I add the script, move the object into place, then delete it or add it, delete it, then move the object?

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Rhiannon108 said:

I have one undergraduate and two graduate courses in statistics under my belt and SL physics is proving to be challenging!

This isn't SL specific or even computer graphics specifics. We can get gimbal locks in RL too.

 

1 hour ago, Rhiannon108 said:

So, do I add the script, move the object into place, then delete it or add it, delete it, then move the object?

Either should do. What the script does, is reset rotation to 0 degrees around all three axises. Once that is done, it should be possible to move and rotate it any way you like. The more I think about it the less I believe it really is a gimbal lock though. But oh well, I suppose there's no harm in trying, it only takes a minute or two and knowing how to add a scritp to an object is always useful anyway.

[Rhiannon108]

5 hours ago, ChinRey said:

In the object's inventory, Click on "New script" button, then open the default script that appers there, replace the text in it and save. Alternatively you can create the script in your ivnentory and drag it onto the object but you'll have to open the object ivnentory anyway to delete the script so you might as well create it there. I do assume you can modify the object btw.

Keep it mind that I can't guarantee it'll work. In theory it should release a gimbal lock but I've never tried it msyelf and besides, we don't know if that is the problem you have.

 

This fixed it. Changing world to local didn't do anything. Thanks, ChinRey!!!

[ChinRey]

7 hours ago, Rhiannon108 said:

This fixed it. Changing world to local didn't do anything. Thanks, ChinRey!!!

Wow! I have to admit I didn't really believe it was a gimbal lock, I just thought it would be easy to eliminate the possibility. This is definitely something we'll have to keep in mind.

You better thank Whirly too. If she hadn't known JIRA by heart, we'd probably never have figured out a problem as obscure as this.

Edited June 18, 2019 by ChinRey

[Rhiannon108]

Yes, thx to you and Whirly! I had never heard of gimbal lock before!