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Pushing the limits


PrudenceAnton
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First I must say, the new linden homes are perfect for a nice neighborhood community.  I do love the look and styles as do so many others that have posted here.  I've spent some time exploring the areas, by land and water and I am amazed by the different styles and decor that residents have been showcasing.  So many are cleverly detailed with such artistic flare.  I've seen so many original ideas and really admired the owners talents.  I love the additions that creators have made and residents are using on their homes, some have adorable garages, porches, stables and even rezz horses to ride!  Sometimes I even snap my fingers thinking to myself, why didn't I think of trying that in a decorating idea.  

I do not yet currently have one of the new linden homes and like many others I am patiently awaiting when LL will release the next batch.  

There is one thing I did notice while touring that left me to ponder.  In the LL covenant, it states that residents should keep their Linden Homes presentable and in-theme to their unique areas.  I also believe it states that homes are to be used strictly for residential use, not commercial. 

I have not seen any commercial use but I have notice a few faux business like set ups with signs outside and invites to come inside. It was unique in the concept but is this keeping with the covenant still?  I understand the desire to be open and invite the public and neighbors to enjoy your own private area but a few I felt were not in keeping with the theme and looked out of place with their neighborhood, one even had security gate houses with faux 2 dimensional cartoon like people working at desks.  Cute but out of theme.  Another house I spotted was a crazy, cool looking carnival like set up but their theme was carried to the outside and it stood out like a sore thumb, completely out of place in the neighborhood.  My mention of this is not a complaint but a question of how far are residents allowed to push the limits of keeping with the well detailed and constructed theme that Linden Labs seemed to work very hard at getting right for once. 

If any of you have lived on other mainland sim areas or even the older Linden homes, I'm sure you remember having neighbors who's themes were very wacky and ended up distracting and spoiling the pleasant scenery, so I mused my thoughts aloud to hear some feed back of what is 'within the limits'.

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I am torn. I like what I like and think it should be there.

I don't like the false storefront that cover the LH totally. But I am afraid to say "That should be forbidden" because what if they take away things I like? It is not that offensive, just a bit out of place.

And I think the Moles/Lindens have enough work as it is. If one of them finds it by himself/herself and decide it has to go, then the Gods have spoken. But I will not invoke the wrath of the Gods.

Edited by Marianne Little
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I also agree about the fake storefronts. I know the person who put them up has nothing but the absolute best intentions of adding to the community but I think they just look too commercial, like a strip mall.

The ones, however, who've set up the pubs, home offices, etc... those are awesome because (as far as I know) they haven't actually changed the outside look of the house structure itself. One might even have a neighbor who travels with a carnival six months a year and has his stuff set up at home when he's not on the road!

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Personally I feel that residents should be allowed to decorate the interior of their homes as they see fit and suits them.  That should not be in question. My thoughts were more of what is seen from the outside by people that pass by or your neighbors who live along side of each other.  In referencing the LL covenant it does state that 'residents should keep their Linden Homes presentable and in-theme to their unique areas'.  I had noticed a few (very few) places that looked out of theme in accordance to the covenants stipulations and wondered on those that might be pushing the limits of their covenant. i.e. a circus would not be in theme to the design presented by LL.

People will cam inside homes when no one is around to see how others have decorated their place up when they are impressed by the exterior decor. I do, no apologies given. ;)

Also, as stated, for privacy you can set your lot where no one outside your property lines can see or hear you, they will only be able to see your rezzed items on your lot.

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11 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I also agree about the fake storefronts. I know the person who put them up has nothing but the absolute best intentions of adding to the community but I think they just look too commercial, like a strip mall.

The ones, however, who've set up the pubs, home offices, etc... those are awesome because (as far as I know) they haven't actually changed the outside look of the house structure itself. One might even have a neighbor who travels with a carnival six months a year and has his stuff set up at home when he's not on the road!

I have a question in regards to these residential pubs, cafes, home offices, they were very cute and unique, 1 or 2 that I saw had little signs out front, is this okay with the covenant? They are not real businesses but faux business presentations and inviting (I am assuming here) to the public to come in and enjoy their place. My question is more, is it okay to put the little signs outside like that? It does help the neighbors, public know they are welcome to come inside.

 

btw, I did find the Apple Fall display home and enjoyed going inside to have a look around, so by this measure, I am guessing that the little business signs (faux business) would fall into the permits of the covenant.

Edited by PrudenceAnton
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29 minutes ago, PrudenceAnton said:

btw, I did find the Apple Fall display home and enjoyed going inside to have a look around, so by this measure, I am guessing that the little business signs (faux business) would fall into the permits of the covenant.

There is no business sign at the Apple Pie house. It only has an open house sign that does not use a business name at all. 

Personally, I like the little faux businesses that some have built. I'm not all that keen on builds that totally eclipse the Linden Home structure though, but that's just my personal opinion. When reading the covenant it doesn't say it's not allowed, so as long as it complies with the theme I suppose it's allowed. I tend to believe that freedom is more important than compliance at times though. I really don't like the idea of busy bodies policing their neighbors, and I'm not saying you are doing that by questioning. I have seen it happen though in these very forums. Fortunately, most of those posts have not been met with acceptance by the majority of those responding.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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6 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

There is no business sign at the Apple Pie house. It only has an open house sign that does not use a business name at all. 

Personally, I like the little faux businesses that some have built. I'm not all that keen on builds that totally eclipse the Linden Home structure though, but that's just my personal opinion. When reading the covenant it doesn't say it's not allowed, so as long as it complies with the theme I suppose it's allowed. I tend to believe that freedom is more important than compliance at times though. I really don't like the idea of busy bodies policing their neighbors, and I'm not saying you are doing that by questioning. I have seen it happen though in these very forums. Fortunately, most of those posts have not been met with acceptance by the majority of those responding.

You are correct, I should have clarified my wording better, it was sponsored by Apple Fall but it only states that it is an open house that anyone can come inside and view to see how they decorated it.

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I found the clarification by Patch really helpful. My reading was that it was ok for businesses to link 'in' to a home in Bellerissia, but not the other way around (ie no direct store advertising or tps out to a commercial sim or marketplace page).

It can't be easy getting the balance right. Everyone will have different personal limits when it comes to items which disturb the visual theme. It feels to me like there's a difference between a plot which looks like a home, but is maybe a cafe / library inside, and a build which completely covers over the original house design.

Maybe there is no definitive answer except the group think? I saw a house where the cladding had been stuck on and remade to a colour outside the regular palette. it had been done well, and to me it looked fine, thought technically it could be seen as a breech. Whereas I'm pretty sure my reaction to glow in the dark full bright plants is a personal thing that others don't seem to mind!

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

Whereas I'm pretty sure my reaction to glow in the dark full bright plants is a personal thing that others don't seem to mind!

 

7 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Noooooooo... I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate that and will blacklist on sight... lol!

Add to this furniture or really just about anything except lights set to full bright! 

I have seen commercial buildings with the interiors set to full bright with full bright vendors.. that's fine and helps with shopping .. but not in residential builds please. :D

 

Edited by Blush Bravin
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Just now, Blush Bravin said:

Add to this furniture or really just about anything except lights set to full bright!

YES! And even some lights!

I always look at my place in the dark to make sure I haven't missed anything that is on full bright. Full bright is THE evil. 

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Personally I feel the entire concept of "theme" is getting entirely too subjective and really is starting to meander into people's personal taste. .

I for one enjoy seeing the open to the public style homes.... it was these homes that allowed me to immerse into Bellisseria long before I had my own place... it was the main reason too that I made my houseboat open to the public...

These places help create community and they serve as one of the best ways of welcoming newcomers, as well as giving regulars places to come visit...

Given that Patch has already given his blessing to these little community areas and even hangs out at them himself I think maybe "theme" is also being formed by culture... and Belli is beginning to form a unique culture of it's own. 

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Regarding the OP initial statements, I've seen at least one of the houses that's been mentioned that looks like an actual carnival theme park, if not a haunted house perhaps for Halloween purposes. I remember thinking along the same lines too when I first saw it; Doesn't this go against the Covenant? It does stand out (or did, I haven't actually been back that way since). If I lived beside or across the road I probably wouldn't be terribly impressed myself. But this is where we start treading on shaky ground.

Just because I don't like it is irrelevant. It looks like a carnival, yes, BUT there are people in real life that do live in real life display homes, haunted houses, tourist spots, and so on. At least people aren't being charged for admission, and it isn't set up as an actual business or even, from memory, implied. I mean, there is a fine line to tread between what makes a home a home and what makes it... something else. We can argue taste, or even a particular checklist of items that one might expect in a residence to be there such as bed, sink, etc. It's really up to LL to make the final decision, and I think they're erring on the side of caution unless something is glaringly obvious. And by that I mean gets enough overwhelming complaints and backlash that it can't be overlooked.

I don't think a carnival house really warrants that kind of attention, yet. But I do think LL is trying hard to trust home owners to behave without wanting to step on creative toes and come down like tyrannical land lords. I get why, and I also understand that giving freedom always come with the risk someone is always guaranteed to test set boundaries. There are a LOT of people doing the latter and no one's mentioned it yet on any of the threads that I've seen.

For example, the covenant also states no structure can be higher than 4 meters. I've seen radio towers and trees and sheds/garages and sauna/pool decks and flag poles etc at well over that height, and some even double that. No one says a thing. They actually praise it, or at least the creativity at work. I myself am also guilty. The covenant says we cannot build outside of our parcels but I've done just that by adding rails to the steps that lead to my house. So where exactly is the line drawn? (Definitely no full bright, obviously, but that goes without saying 😛 )

EDIT: I'm going to add here, that I think perhaps proportion of buildings/height (while good for no camera clipping) makes avatars of average height appear short, and so structures appear tiny by comparison - especially where additional structures are added directly onto the house. One such example is a pergola attached to the rear of a building that cannot be placed at 4m as it will be in line with/partially obscure window and door frames, I had that problem a few times as I set up. 

Edited by RaeLeeH
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It's a weird little unique-to-Bellisseria thing, I think. I know, or at least think I know, that none of us want Bellisseria to end up looking like the mainland. We also, I think, don't want to be policing what others do. 

Somebody is always going to push the limit, and yeah, we're already seeing it. Just wait until there are 30,000 homes.

Ultimately, it's up to LL to decide if something goes against the theme or not, but also, I do think the community should have a voice, just like when we got the air strip. 


I think there's a difference between policing other people and saying "whoa, what the hell is THAT?" though I don't know how to define that that difference is.

I've seen giant cannons on top of houseboats, mega yachts parked at houseboats that are the same size as the houseboats, the aforementioned strip mall... we're going to be soon getting into the "well if that's okay, why isn't this?" territory as people try to out-do each other because, you know... people. They are...

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2 hours ago, PrudenceAnton said:

Personally I feel that residents should be allowed to decorate the interior of their homes as they see fit and suits them.  That should not be in question. My thoughts were more of what is seen from the outside by people that pass by or your neighbors who live along side of each other.  In referencing the LL covenant it does state that 'residents should keep their Linden Homes presentable and in-theme to their unique areas'.  I had noticed a few (very few) places that looked out of theme in accordance to the covenants stipulations and wondered on those that might be pushing the limits of their covenant. i.e. a circus would not be in theme to the design presented by LL.

 

The Covenant actually specifically stipulates residents are 'allowed to decorate the interior of their homes as they see fit.' But it really also says that 'residents should keep their Linden Homes presentable and in-theme to their unique areas.' As to the former, hehe, I'm probably pushing the envelope a bit myself there, as my Windlass isn't your typical houseboat style interior (for lack of talent, really, than anything else, tbh). I mean, I like it, but it may, in the strictest sense, not spell 'houseboat' per se. I tried to be considerate of my neighbors, though, as far as the exterior is concerned: like I have taped off a bedroom window, but you can't tell from the outside (as the face of the blocking prim is 100% transparent on the outside).

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FULL BRIGHT

Looks horrible to everyone .. except people on very low viewer settings running SL on a potato. For them, full bright can make up for the complete lack of light sources. People will full bright stuff probably don't even realize.

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

It's a weird little unique-to-Bellisseria thing, I think. I know, or at least think I know, that none of us want Bellisseria to end up looking like the mainland. We also, I think, don't want to be policing what others do. 

You can't have it both ways.

Either you have clear, obvious and enforced lines, or a big vague smoosh where only the most obvious and egregious content is acted up on.

Guess which one is classic mainland.

As for policing .. LL are almost entirely reactive in all aspects of governance. No abuse report, no possibility of action. Even then, Linden governance seems to have it's own internal priorities.

As more and more slides, the final result is more likely to be an abandonment of restrictions by LL as they decide addressing the ever growing mess is more trouble than it's worth. As evidence I cite every other themed or limited location ever. Not least of all Horizons where they straight up deleted the covenant.

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