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Gambling Game in SL Stores for Outfits


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19 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The thing that made me stay away from them mostly is,all the useless junk that is in there with them..like 5 different flavors of a slushie..

When all i want is the jacket, top and shorts. hehehehe

I usually wait a day or so for the things to hit the MP and find the one low balling the rest of them..hehehehe

I think I know that gacha. They are too greedy. I hope their way of doing it, will make their gachas wildly unpopular. People just saying that's too much and walk by.

The resellers can't hope to sell that junk for pull price. And all the items on the MP who's sold for 5 L, just to get rid of it. The pull price was 30, 50 or 75 L.

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I would also like to add that in a normal situation a vendor should put effort in selling their wares. In the case with gachas, the consumer is set up with items he don't need from the vendor, which turns him into a vendor as well, doing the work for the vendor. After you bought something, in a normal situation it is your choice whether  you want to advertise for the company by means of mouth-to-mouth or otherwise. In the gacha situation you are forced to advertise for the company you bought from. A normal company has normal exposure. A gacha situation forces the consumer to do the exposure for them.

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19 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

There is a thing called personal responsibility. If someone can't control themselves, that's not really my problem. That sounds callous, but just because someone has a problem controlling themselves doesn't mean I should have to suffer.

Certainly, but there is also thing called public responsibility. We don't always have to think about ourselves.

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You are doing that exact thing when you play a gacha. You are agreeing to pay a specific price and the seller is agreeing that you will get one of the items in the machine. Do you get pissed when you put a nickel in a gumball machine and don't get a red one?

Only the price is agreed upon, not the item! Because the item is random to eternity and you might never get what you want. You can get the same item 10 times and still not get the exact color you want. This constitutes the nature of gambling, not a sound commercial transaction.

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If I'm willing to pay that $20-$30 to get the burger I want, and I know up front that this is the way McDonald's is selling their burgers, there is zero problem with that. The thing is that it's never going to happen.

I mentioned that whether it is likely to happen is not the issue. It is the to show the nature of the unfair principle of gacha.

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Now, if McDonald's kept their regular menu, as SL merchants do, and also made a food gacha with special burgers that couldn't be bought off the menu and it was a game of chance to see which one I'd get, knowing that for $2 I'm going to get a burger of some sort that is worth at least $2, and might be worth $10, I think that sounds super fun! And if I can turn around to the guy behind me and he happens to want the burger I got, and is willing to pay me $3 to ensure he gets the burger he wants, why is there a problem with that?

I agree with that. But I wouldn't have an issue with gacha if it was a third option besides a fatpack and the option to buy an individual outfit. I would rather spend 1000L on one outfit, or 3000L for a fatpack, then to keep pushing 75L in the machine because it leaves me no other choice. I wouldn't be bothered with gacha if it was a gimmick option besides the regular options to buy.

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Also, there are many gachas that are beach houses and SL pets. It literally is okay for anything to be a gacha.

Then it can also be ok for McDonalds. If that is the attitude, anything could be gacha, from real estate to your health care. My issue is... do we want that. And this isn't about you and me, but think about future generations. Do we want 50% of digital economy to be gacha by 2049? 50% of our normal economy by 2100? Do we want it to exceed some more?

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I would absolutely pay L$50 for goofy random teleport like that. Sounds like super fun, too! Somebody make this happen!

That is a personal attitude. Also for your comments about the colors black and purple. I think from this as the general perspective. These are no arguments against the unfair nature of gacha's and how they operate.

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Dude, neither of these things are about making life easy as possible for customers. McDonald's employees are cleaning those tables because people are gross and won't do it and McDonald's has visits from  health inspectors that will shut them down if the tables aren't cleaned and it attracts roaches or mice.

And why do you think these health inspectors exist? To protect the interest of the customer!

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You don't put clothes back yourself because the store is making sure that you aren't stealing them and that they're put back in the right spot and in the right way so they don't have to spend hours and hours (which they do anyway) to put everything back where it goes. It's for their ease, not yours.

That is not true, because if it is a mess in an apparel store or McDonalds or anywhere else, the customer stays away. It is for the customer that they put effort in their operation. In SL under the gacha system, this has been reversed without any supervision, legal aid for the customer, the right to sue a company, to appeal to higher institutions, and so on.

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Both of those things are lethal and will kill people dead if used incorrectly. A gacha is not going to kill anyone. People can become addicted to anything. SL in itself can be addicting for some people. Should we just close it down to protect those people? How about eating? There are plenty of people who are addicted to food. Let's make food illegal! Sex? There are support groups and treatment facilities all over the world for people addicted to sex. Let's make that illegal, too!

Sex and food are inalienable rights. That is not the case for the company to sell gacha.

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if the market bears that 10% or 25%, then clearly we're okay with that.

Then it can also be 50% or 75% or in the case of Horntail, a 100%. I am not ok with that.

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You don't get to be the arbiter of what is morally or ethically wrong. You don't get to take away something a lot of people enjoy because you don't like it. I hate mushrooms. Can we get rid of those? If people didn't enjoy gachas and put their lindens in them, there would be no gachas.

I don't get to be an arbiter, but I do have a say in it. And that's what I'm doing. Having a say in it.

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You're being incredibly over the top with this whole thing.

That is subjective. If all commercial activity on SL exceeds 50%, and there are no limitations from a legal standpoint, it could happen, and then more people will ***** about this.

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1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I think I know that gacha. They are too greedy. I hope their way of doing it, will make their gachas wildly unpopular. People just saying that's too much and walk by.

The resellers can't hope to sell that junk for pull price. And all the items on the MP who's sold for 5 L, just to get rid of it. The pull price was 30, 50 or 75 L.

It was mainly just an example of some I've seen around..

I think nowadays fat packs irritate me more..1800 or more for a top..by the time you are finished getting the whole outfit it cost 6k lol

Can get a mesh head and almost enough for a mesh body for what some tops and pants cost in a fat pack..where before they would at least put the outfit in the same fat pack hehehehe

Edited by Ceka Cianci
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17 minutes ago, Burt Bolissima said:

 

Then it can also be ok for McDonalds. If that is the attitude, anything could be gacha, from real estate to your health care. My issue is... do we want that. And this isn't about you and me, but think about future generations. Do we want 50% of digital economy to be gacha by 2049? 50% of our normal economy by 2100? Do we want it to exceed some more?

 

Won’t anybody think of the CHILDREN?! It’s great you’re passionate about something, but this entire WOT is s bit over the top.

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Oh FFS... I'm not going to to through this again point by point but...

I work for a private charity that cares for kids that are horribly traumatized by abuse that is often a result of a parent with a debilitating substance addiction. These kids that deserve everything society can offer them to heal don't even get a pass on personal responsibility. We still expect them to take responsibility for their own bad behaviors. 

Also, you've clearly not dealt with health inspectors before. Talk to chefs and restaurant owners. For the most part, the inspectors are grifters. Give them a $50 handshake and that little cockroach problem is ignored.

And you are absolutely wrong about the reason you can't put back the clothes you try on. Facts are facts are facts. Your inability to accept facts isn't my problem, though it is infuriating. God, what your poor girlfriend must put up with...

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I can't see how McDonald's or Real estate could become like a Gatcha..

I just bought another home about a week and a half ago..I'm trying to figure out how real estate could become anymore a gamble than it already is?

Unless people are just buying houses site unseen..Then they are a fool that will soon be parted with their money.

McDonalds having people roll the dice for lunch..yea,that'll fly hehehehe

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1 hour ago, Burt Bolissima said:

I would also like to add that in a normal situation a vendor should put effort in selling their wares. In the case with gachas, the consumer is set up with items he don't need from the vendor, which turns him into a vendor as well, doing the work for the vendor. After you bought something, in a normal situation it is your choice whether  you want to advertise for the company by means of mouth-to-mouth or otherwise. In the gacha situation you are forced to advertise for the company you bought from. A normal company has normal exposure. A gacha situation forces the consumer to do the exposure for them.

Burt, this is a good point. So are some of the others you've made here.

But your complaint should more generally be directed, not merely at gachas, but at the whole economic system. In RL, for instance, people choose, quite deliberately, to buy stuff with corporate logos on it: they want the "status" that wearing Converse, or whatever is hot now, gives them. And, yeah, they are doing free advertising, and also feeding the hype machine that makes logos so desirable in the first place. (Probably you should read Naomi Klein's No Logo -- you'd probably like and agree with it.)

It's stupid as hell, and I won't do it. Nor will I use gachas, for the same reason: they are, if not precisely a "scam," an exploitative marketing strategy that is all about taking advantage of people's weaknesses, gullibility, and desires for corporate profit.

Well, welcome to capitalism!

Allowing people to do stupid and self-defeating things is actually a function, believe it or not, of "freedom." Sometimes, as you note, the government should, and often does, step in to protect the consumer, but that always involves a calculation of the actual risk to public health and well-being, or the assessment that something fraudulent is happening. If there are gachas that are fraudulent -- i.e., "rigged" -- then, yes, LL should step in (although god knows how they'd determine that), but mostly neither of those two things applies in SL. No one's health and well-being is at risk because they can't get a "rare" from a gacha.

I'd love to see gachas gone: they are a major annoyance and they interfere in lots of ways with my ability to obtain some things I'd like. But hating them, and fighting to see them banned, are two different things.

What would really be useful is a public information campaign so that those who don't understand how they are being exploited by gachas get it. They would then be in a position to make an informed decision about whether they're alright with that, or not. And for that reason, I'd very much like to see the odds published for each machine: I think an argument can be made that LL should require that.

But, really, your complaint here is about capitalism and consumerism, not gachas. That's fine, of course . . . but also probably rather pointless here.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But your complaint should more generally be directed, not merely at gachas, but at the whole economic system. In RL, for instance, people choose, quite deliberately, to buy stuff with corporate logos on it: they want the "status" that wearing Converse, or whatever is hot now, gives them. And, yeah, they are doing free advertising, and also feeding the hype machine that makes logos so desirable in the first place. (Probably you should read Naomi Klein's No Logo -- you'd probably like and agree with it.)

First of all, thank you for this constructive reply. It is based on arguments and this is sometimes refreshing. I want to say to this that wearing a logo is a choice that comes with buying the product, which you agree to before you buy it. The gacha system makes you end up with products you don't need, for which you have paid, and turns you into a vendor or when you don't want that hassle, into a sucker because you have paid more for the goods you required.

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If there are gachas that are fraudulent -- i.e., "rigged" -- then, yes, LL should step in (although god knows how they'd determine that), but mostly neither of those two things applies in SL. No one's health and well-being is at risk because they can't get a "rare" from a gacha.

Someone already pointed out that there is completely no transparency on this. Who knows if the system is rigged to have a higher chance on certain colors or objects?

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What would really be useful is a public information campaign so that those who don't understand how they are being exploited by gachas get it. They would then be in a position to make an informed decision about whether they're alright with that, or not. And for that reason, I'd very much like to see the odds published for each machine: I think an argument can be made that LL should require that.

I completely agree with that. And not only should the odds be published but also verified. If not, the vendor has virtually any kind of freedom to rig the system in any kind they want.

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But, really, your complaint here is about capitalism and consumerism, not gachas. That's fine, of course . . . but also probably rather pointless here.

I am not against capitalism as I am not against prostitution or certain kinds of drugs. But I am against certain types of prostitution, and certain types of drugs. And yes, so I am against certain types of capitalism. What happened with over the counter derivatives, subprime mortgages, S&L scandals, false advertising, horse-meat scandals, false labeling, not labeling at all... the list of corporate trickery is very long. All of them started small didn't they? And because of the lucrative nature they mushroom into something enormous. Eventually the public has to play catch up with such practices, and in the meantime the damage is done and the profits already cashed in.

Edited by Burt Bolissima
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There are actually a lot of people in sl who really love gachas. If there weren't, they never could have become as prominent as they are today.

I believe for those who genuinely love gachas, that love is driven by a desire to feel unique or special. By offering rare prizes that are more difficult to get, the reward to the people who win and use those rares is that they get to feel like they have something that not everyone else has. I've seen comments that gachas would only be ok if those same items were also offered individually or in fat packs by the seller. But in the act of doing that, the seller would be eliminating the thing that (I think) primarily makes gachas appealing. 

 

Another reason people love gachas is the possibility of paying lower prices for good quality content. I often find, personally, that the rare objects in a gacha don't appeal to me and it's the regular ones that I want. In those cases, you can expect a reasonable chance of doing a few pulls at ~25-75 lindens a pop and win at least one of the items you were interested in, which you may have paid 300L for outside of a gacha situation. Or, as others have said, buy it on marketplace from a reseller to be sure you're getting exactly what you want :) 

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Some people hate gachas more than I hate [INDIVIDUAL 1], and I hate him with the burning white hot passion of a billion suns. [NAME ELIDED TO PROTECT ANONYMITY]

That's a lot.

I love gachas much as I love clothing that's not fitted for my particular avatar: They save me so much time and money. When I see a gacha, I know I can just move on to the next creator, no need to waste any time loading the textures.

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3 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Funny thing is that I have no issues with real-world gacha machines, because you fully own whatever item you get from them.

Not so much in SL where in most cases, you're just allowed to look at it and contemplate on your mistakes.

In Japan gachas are regulated, and companies publish the probability rations. And in general, RL casinos are regulated by state agencies and random inspections occur, checking if machines have been modified.

So no, don't compare regulated industry to a script coded by someone you don't even know and nobody can revise it. This is one of the reasons Zyngo got banned.

I'm looking forward the day gachas are finally banned. They are abused beyond absurd already...

 

3 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Some people hate gachas more than I hate Donald Trump, and I hate him with the burning white hot passion of a billion suns.

Ah, yes, someone had to bring how much they hate Trump. Here, have some digital back pats.

Poor NPC 😢

edit: oddly familiar youtube.com/watch?v=mthj2Z7xqvM&t=3608

Edited by Atilla Thei
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i think I just got lucky.  I only ever played 1 gacha

i saw a person with a little follower puppy.  They told me where to get one.  Turns out to be a gacha only shop and can't buy directly.  Look and see that they one I want is a common. So I think ok I have a go.  First go: A snuggle puppy, so no.  2nd go: A parcel roaming puppy, which turns out I liked. 3rd go: A adult dog which I never liked, so no. 4th go: A puppy in a sock, so no. 5th go: Another puppy in a different color sock, so grrr! 6th go: Finally! a follower puppy. So \o/.  6 goes to get a common lol

about 2 weeks later, I was chatting to another person about the puppies who had them as well. They told me to look on marketplace. Turns out the adult dog which I never liked is listed for between  2500 to 3500 L$. And I am like woooo! so I kept it

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Oh, another positive thing to say: I really appreciate events that segregate out any creators with gachas, so that section is just for the gacha junkies and I not only don't need to rez the vendors, I don't need to rez the gacha shoppers either.

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16 hours ago, Atilla Thei said:

Ah, yes, someone had to bring how much they hate Trump. Here, have some digital back pats.

Poor NPC 😢

edit: oddly familiar youtube.com/watch?v=mthj2Z7xqvM&t=3608

I was making a simple comparison of the thing I hate the most to the way some people hate gachas. It could have just as easily been mushrooms, but I'd much rather eat a mushroom than eat a Trump. Sorry that it went over your head! I'll try to dumb it down more next time!

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I like that I can send gacha wearable items to alts. I don't rez clothes or shoes, so the risk of loosing them if the region goes down in a spectacular crash is 0. Of course they can disappear in an inventory clearout, but...

A certain male clothes designer have had gachas with all male sizes in one. So pull the gacha, get item, open the pack, send the Slink male to the alt with Slink male, the Belleza Jake to the alt with that, the Signature Gianni size to the third.

And the females. One have Maitreya like me, she get the Maitreya xtras. Sadly, the female clothes designers don't pack all female body sizes in one. But for jewelry, the vendor often have a mix of metals. I wear the silver ones, alt 1 get the gold ones, alt 2 get whatever metal left.

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This whole thing sounds to me like a bunch of sour grapes. I've spent plenty of L$ playing gachas and many times I've spent more than I wanted, that's on me. I was disappointed but I didn't see it as a reason to rally all the others who didn't get what they wanted to gather at Governor Linden's mansion with our pitchforks and torches to demand change because I can't control myself. Like others have said, if you don't like gacha don't play and recognize that these are all wants and not needs. Just like we don't need kitchens or bathrooms, we don't even need to "play" SL it's a choice. There are many times I have wanted a particular item but after evaluating the risk I made the decision not to play. There has never been anyone standing behind me taking my L$ and sticking them in the machine for me. If you spend L$500 or L$5000000 on a gacha to get that one thing and don't, consider it an expensive lesson learned and move on.

 

P.S. I gacha houseboat

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2 minutes ago, MichaMoz said:

This whole thing sounds to me like a bunch of sour grapes. I've spent plenty of L$ playing gachas and many times I've spent more than I wanted, that's on me. I was disappointed but I didn't see it as a reason to rally all the others who didn't get what they wanted to gather at Governor Linden's mansion with our pitchforks and torches to demand change because I can't control myself. Like others have said, if you don't like gacha don't play and recognize that these are all wants and not needs. Just like we don't need kitchens or bathrooms, we don't even need to "play" SL it's a choice. There are many times I have wanted a particular item but after evaluating the risk I made the decision not to play. There has never been anyone standing behind me taking my L$ and sticking them in the machine for me. If you spend L$500 or L$5000000 on a gacha to get that one thing and don't, consider it an expensive lesson learned and move on.

 

P.S. I gacha houseboat

We see a lot of it on this forum,

I can't afford x they ought to make it cheaper

X isnt fair in my view it should be different

Sadly some have a sense of entitlement. I don't like Gacha so I don't play. There might be things I want but not things I need there. I weigh up if my want equals what it likely will cost me and if its not worth it I go without. What I don't do is come to the forums claiming they should make things be the way I want them to be.

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