Gambling Game in SL Stores for Outfits

[Beth Macbain]

38 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

 (note: do not post schoolhouse rock video)

But it's a great video!
 

 

[Amina Sopwith]

This appears to be what we have now instead of lucky chairs?

I have to say I hate the things. If it's going to cost money, I'd rather just choose for myself what I'm going to have, thanks very much, so I don't play gachas. If there's something I want that's available only as a gacha, I'll refuse to play partly because I probably won't get what I want, and partly on principle. I can usually find something close enough to what I want in a different store.

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Burt Bolissima said:

I find it really strange that people would take the side of the vendors, and not the customers. But that is probably something that creeped in from RL into SL.

I'm not on the side of vendors, except for the fact that they're allowed to sell whatever the heck they want, within the TOS, whether I "like" it, or not. LL has said they can, so they can, and LL is the ultimate authority on this. But I also couldn't possibly find myself on the side of someone that actually thinks want and need are the same thing, lol. It sounds about as ridiculous as some of the prices and piece-parting schemes I have seen on these gachas over the years. No one "needs" a "pink outfit". You may want one, a whole lot, of course, but you don't *need it. Want and need are not interchangeable words, they have different meanings, lol. One could also say the mingling of want and need is a topic that often bleeds over from rl too, we see it all the time, really. 

Odds are pretty darn good, what you were looking for, is on the MP. Gacha reselling is a huge thing in sl, has been for at least the last three years(and before that, not as huge, but still very much present).  I am not personally a fan, I don't play them. If I happen to see something on the MP I like, or I want, and it happens to have been (or be) part of a gacha, so be it, I still might buy it. I can count on one hand the things I have bought that were gachas in the last, erm..however long they've been on sl. Three..the number of items, is three, and all three are animals I thought, and think, are adorable, lol. I also got them at super low cost-because people dump their gachas like they've gone out of style, and often price them at far less than I might have otherwise paid. I am, however, quite admittedly, very frugal with money, generally speaking. There are few things in sl I would ever splurge on, lol (and that's not out if disrespect, but because I pinch pennies in all areas of life, even when I don't need to).

No one, and I do mean literally no one, is forced to play gacha machines, or buy resell ones, either. It's not even possible for anyone in sl, including LL, to force you to   We make that choice, a conscious choice. Some make the choice to play, some make the choice to buy others' discards, and some make the choice never to do so. I suspect a lot fall somewhere in the middle category, though. 

[Skell Dagger]

4 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

My girlfriend did 15 attempts and we settled for the blue and winterpink outfits from Horntail. That's 2 outfits for 1125L which is not bad, however... we wanted the full pink one, not the winterpink. So we spend 1125L and still didn't get the outfit we wanted and now we have to quit because it can take ages before you get only the pink one, a 2x (1out of 24) chance.

Can't we do something about this? I still see it as scamming customers.

3 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

But if it's not available on the MP and you really NEED that item then you are still forced to play!

If you'd bothered to search Marketplace for it first you could have had it for almost half what you paid, and without the unwanted spares. The pink and white set is this 'Blossom' one:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=✓&search[category_id]=&search[maturity_level]=G&search[keywords]=horntail+AND+noumi+AND+blossom

Cheapest prices there (as of Jun 8th) are:

Skirt & Szorty = L$249
Leggings = L$200
Boots = L$222

Total cost = L$671. Sell the spares and you'll more than cover that.

(Currently 8 search results at that link. As they sell, they will disappear, so if you don't come back to this thread for a few days don't expect those items to still be there.)

Edited June 8, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Mollymews]

3 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

Should you or the vendor decide what I want or need, or should the customer?

it is actually the vendor who decides what we can get and how we can get it. Its their stuff. We have no entitlement to other people's stuff

when the stuff is critical to our RL survival, like food, water and air for example, then we can put some societal rules around what vendors can and can't do with this stuff, but SL stuff doesn't fall into this catergory

that a vendor may or may not make customers happy, is something vendors takes into consideration for sure. However that is a decision for the vendor to make, even tho as a customer we might consider their decision to be less than accommodating to us 

[LittleMe Jewell]

The only time I ever play a gacha -- maybe a total of a dozen times so far - is when I would be happy with any single item from the machine and at the price that that gacha is charging.  I flat out won't play the ones that require several pulls just to get all the pieces of an outfit.  If I want the outfit bad enough, I'll look for it on the MP.

I've picked up a couple of fantasy skins from gachas and some decorative animal items.  However, almost always, if I see something in a gacha that I like, I simply make a note of it and start searching the MP a few weeks later - Thank you, @Skell Dagger for that recommendation.

Edited June 8, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Blaise Glendevon]

I feel like we've had this conversation before. 

[Burt Bolissima]

3 hours ago, Skell Dagger said:

If you'd bothered to search Marketplace for it first you could have had it for almost half what you paid, and without the unwanted spares. The pink and white set is this 'Blossom' one:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=✓&search[category_id]=&search[maturity_level]=G&search[keywords]=horntail+AND+noumi+AND+blossom

Cheapest prices there (as of Jun 8th) are:

Skirt & Szorty = L$249
Leggings = L$200
Boots = L$222

Total cost = L$671. Sell the spares and you'll more than cover that.

(Currently 8 search results at that link. As they sell, they will disappear, so if you don't come back to this thread for a few days don't expect those items to still be there.)

No, that was not the outfit I wanted. I posted a  picture of another one because the outfit I wanted looked very skimpy

[Burt Bolissima]

6 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

There is a bill introduced in the US Congress to ban the sale of lootboxes in video games. It takes a long time to turn a bill into law (note: do not post schoolhouse rock video). If this ever happens I think LL would ban gachas just to be safe.

If that's the case I'd be happy with that. Also videogames are indeed well known for dragging customers into paying more and more. This is a form of aggressive capitalism that I'm really unhappy about and on Steam the complaints about it go through the roof.

[Blaise Glendevon]

27 minutes ago, Burt Bolissima said:

If that's the case I'd be happy with that. Also videogames are indeed well known for dragging customers into paying more and more. This is a form of aggressive capitalism that I'm really unhappy about and on Steam the complaints about it go through the roof.

Gachas are as much social interaction as shopping. Trading, second hand markets, and yard sales are fun ways to interact with people you don't know already. If it's not your game, don't buy them. But they're fun to some folks. 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

6 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

There is a bill introduced in the US Congress to ban the sale of lootboxes in video games. It takes a long time to turn a bill into law (note: do not post schoolhouse rock video). If this ever happens I think LL would ban gachas just to be safe.

But the concept of a "gatcha" is not unique to SL, far from it. It also exists in real life, and the "loot box laws" don't even try to cover them.

8 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

Yeah I wish that the Lindens would revise this. See if they can get an official point of view on this.

The official point of view is the Gatcha category on the Marketplace.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Lindal Kidd]

Burt, most stores that have gacha machines also sell the products in regular vendors, where you can choose exactly the item and color you want.  The price is higher, of course.  Look around, and if you don't see it, send an IM or a notecard to the store owner and ask!

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Quote

Bloom is an event that celebrates the magic of Spring - from butterflies to sprites, to the pastels that match the colors of Easter eggs, this grove is full of nature-inspired things that capture the blue sky vibes of the season. With over 100 Merchants sharing their seasonal goods, and grove for those who appreciate the whimsy of a gacha event - there is bound to be something that will infuse your Second Life with a little bee-auty! - Xiola Linden

 

I don't know about the other Lindens, but lead community manager Xiola Linden doesn't seem to mind about Gachas and even blogs about them, inviting Sl residents to participate in them. So as to answer your question...

11 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

See if they can get an official point of view on this.

... I guess this blog post sort of answers it.

[Pixie Kobichenko]

13 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

Thank you for your replies. Still I am against this, only if its optional I have no problem with it.

It's absolutely no different than a bubble gum machine.  Granted the person playing it understands what they are doing.  You know for a set price, you will receive one random prize.  

There are entire events dedicated to gachas.  

Yes, there are yardsales in world to resell your unwanted items.  There is even a category on the Marketplace for it as well.  

The creator of the item determines the permissions they set.  I have encountered some (not many) gachas that I could not trade/resell.

 

 

[TheaDee]

I've heard a lot of complaining about Gachas but this one takes the cake.  Nobody MAKES anyone play Gachas.  The consumer has the choice.  I get that the OP and his girlfriend wanted a specific thing, but really that is a WANT.  It is legal to have Gachas in SL.  It is NOT considered gambling under LL gambling rules because you get an item every time you pay money to the machine.  Yes, it is a RANDOM item from the set.  There are 100s of places that resellers have their extra items, and there are groups where people trade.  It is ridiculous to get this upset because you don't like the idea that you put money into a machine and get a random thing that may or may not be what you want.    

Yes, there are "gachas" in RL.  Look up "gachapon" on Google.  It's just a more expensive bubble gum machine.  If it is determined that the lootbox laws will mean the end of Gacha, I am sure Second Life will survive like it has other regulations that changed our Second Lives.

[Skell Dagger]

7 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

No, that was not the outfit I wanted. I posted a  picture of another one because the outfit I wanted looked very skimpy

Then you search for the outfit that you did want, in exactly the same manner. Quite why you felt the need to negate my post because you posted misleading information in the first place is beyond me. My recommendation still stands.

7 hours ago, Burt Bolissima said:

Also videogames are indeed well known for dragging customers into paying more and more. This is a form of aggressive capitalism that I'm really unhappy about and on Steam the complaints about it go through the roof.

Second Life is not the kind of 'aggressive capitalist videogame' that you find on Steam. There's no additional paid DLC or sneaky microtransactions that you must shell out for if you want to progress past a certain level. LL are not EA, out to screw you for as much as they can get from you with expansion and game packs every few weeks. Don't like having to pay for one outfit that you desperately need and is only available in a gacha? Then don't pay for it. Exercise that amazing thing that we all have - choice - and choose to walk away and find a more amazing outfit that is not in a gacha. Stunning concept, I know, but it's worked for most of us for many years.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Kyrah Abattoir]

6 hours ago, TheaDee said:

The consumer has the choice. 

The consumer always has the choice, what he doesn't have a choice on is what he's actually getting for his money

Digital gachas are just begging for regulation at this point, none of the odds are published, the randomness is not guaranteed, and they promote a nocopy/nomod mentality which is detrimental to consumers.

I've actually considered releasing a free and open-source gacha machine implementation that offers the merchant as many ways to screw the customer as possible. As a "demonstration" of what can be done, and who knows, maybe it will force Linden Lab to take action.

[Eva Knoller]

People, if you don’t like gacha machines then don’t play them. Why must everyone always try to regulate things that have zero effect on them.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, Eva Knoller said:

People, if you don’t like gacha machines then don’t play them. Why must everyone always try to regulate things that have zero effect on them.

Whichever way the market goes affects every single SL user. We don't exist in a vacuum.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Eva Knoller said:

People, if you don’t like gacha machines then don’t play them. Why must everyone always try to regulate things that have zero effect on them.

I understand this may have been a rhetorical question, but, you can easily care about an issue that doesn't affect you.

Smoking, alcohol, gambling, poverty/welfare/unemployment/homelessness, child mortality rate, suicides, etc. are all issues that a lot of people care about even when they're not affected.

I don't care about loot boxes because they don't affect me. I've played many games with them but never opened any besides the ones you get for free. However if loot boxes are going to be regulated, so should gachas because they are identical in concept. Try it, you can't distinguish a line between them.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Eva Knoller]

Yes, it was a rhetorical question. The issues you listed are real issues that affect the greater good.  Gachas in Second Life do not even remotely fall into the same category.

ETA: Quoting fail. This was to @Wulfie Reanimator

Edited June 9, 2019 by Eva Knoller

[Wulfie Reanimator]

10 minutes ago, Eva Knoller said:

The issues you listed are real issues that affect the greater good.

Does this mean that you don't think gambling addiction is a real issue that affects the greater good?

[Selene Gregoire]

Here's a rhetorical question.

How many of you that play gachas can just up and quit playing without ever going back to it? Cold turkey quit. Or put another way, how many of you that play the one armed bandits known as gachas won't admit you are addicted?

Think about the implications of the answers. There is no need to reply to this post. I'm not accusing any one of any thing. I'm just trying to get people to think and see the truth of what they are really doing without being lynched.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Eva Knoller]

Ooo it's a trap!  I do not think gacha machines in Second Life are a detriment to the greater good of society. 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

Here's a rhetorical question.

How many of you that play gachas can just up and quit playing without ever going back to it? Cold turkey quit. Or put another way, how may of you that play the one armed bandits known as gachas won't admit you are addicted?

Think about the implications of the answers. There is no need to reply to this post. I'm not accusing any one of any thing. I'm just trying to get people to think and see the truth of what they are really doing without being lynched.

Glad I never played gachas, as I have an addictive personality.