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Angelina Sinclair

Realtalk: How to get the community to like LL's viewer again?

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1 minute ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

LL are planning to ditch the web profiles & switch over to legacy profiles. They are using the Firestorm implementation contributed by one of the Firestorm devs.
So that's one annoyance that won't be there much longer  ;)

I hope my.secondlife.com will still exist in some shape or form, I know a few people who use profile feeds a lot.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Why don't you ask Linden Labs why they had this parcel flag since so long that I'm pretty sure it was already there before I even joined SL?

Nope, because I don't care. It's in FS, the only viewer I will use, and that's just one of the big reasons I won't use the LL viewer.

By the way, there's no s in Linden Lab. 

Edited by Blush Bravin

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6 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I hope my.secondlife.com will still exist in some shape or form, I know a few people who use profile feeds a lot.

If they are getting rid of web profiles, I think it's a pretty sure bet that the feeds will go as well. They haven't really been maintained and are in a regular state of malfunction, so they are probably more trouble than they are worth to LL. (I happen to like them, but the writing is on the wall.)

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1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Of all the interactions we have with new users to Catznip, by far the most common 'how do I hide my lookats' followed by 'how do I put names on everyone elses' ...  after we point out we deliberately have not, and will not write code to do that, because drama ... 

<GM Rolls 2D6 and determines if an attack or intense personal justification about why they NEED it occurs in IM>

<Attempt saving throw, dodge doesn't stack, remind GM we get a caffeine multiplier, and still possesses Prim Of Fortune>

<GM points out that having it in the bottomless inventory of holding (kittys) does not mean we have it on hand and can 'use' it>

 

This. Can confirm, this is THE number one request. In that particular order. 

I absolutely hate it. I have been thinking of adding the feature to show lookat names with a twist, yours will be forced on, no way to disable it, while the other option hides it but also makes you unable to see other people's lookats as well.

24 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

LL are planning to ditch the web profiles & switch over to legacy profiles. They are using the Firestorm implementation contributed by one of the Firestorm devs.
So that's one annoyance that won't be there much longer  ;)

I hope this contribution doesn't include all the Enhanced Stalking™ features, Avatar Triangulation System™ and I-C-UR-Everything™ feature found in Firestorm, i want normal profiles back and i want to keep free profile pic uploads. Pitchforks and torches are ready in case free profile pics are going away.

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1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Of all the interactions we have with new users to Catznip, by far the most common 'how do I hide my lookats' followed by 'how do I put names on everyone elses' ...  after we point out we deliberately have not, and will not write code to do that, because drama ... 

This is the best funny of Firestorm Viewer among all of them! LOL

  • "You should use Firestorm because you can hide your Look At targets and still see other people's Look At targets!"
  • "Hey thanks, I'll do as you suggest!"
  • "Great... wait, why don't I see your Look At target?"
  • "Because... ummm. I did what you suggest?"

If I am alt-cam on you, I *WANT* you to know I alt-cam on you. And if you're curious why then IM me and ask. And maybe a conversation will happen. Then maybe you won't feel so lonely or whatever. If you hide your own Look At target and show everyone else's, do you not think everyone else is doing the same thing? Kind of defeats the purpose it seems to me. LOL

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3 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

I hope this contribution doesn't include all the Enhanced Stalking™ features, Avatar Triangulation System™ and I-C-UR-Everything™ feature found in Firestorm, i want normal profiles back and i want to keep free profile pic uploads. Pitchforks and torches are ready in case free profile pics are going away.

I'm not sure what you mean.
The LL legacy profiles are pretty much an identical clone of Firestorm, with a couple of minor UI changes that LL wanted.
If you mean that your full legacy profile will be visible to anyone who is logged into an SL viewer, then yes, that's the case. Legacy profiles never had "privacy" features like web profiles where you could lock down profile sections to friends only etc. Just to note the avatar profiles on world.secondlife.com don't have/never had those "privacy" features either.

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The hilarity intensifies when the reason for wanting it turns out to be 'over possessive person A' can demand people stop looking at the crotch of 'their very own person B'.

Trying to explain how the 'avatars center', a weird location in the middle of an avatar, is actually somewhere between the legs and the torso, and that tends to be where the camera anchors, and that in reality, no one is peeking up skirts (etc), is a a waste of time.

Wish I had someone who would yell at strangers just to show how protective they were being of me ... sighs 💔

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9 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

Pitchforks and torches are ready in case free profile pics are going away. 

No idea how that's going to be handled but in legacy profiles you can only use textures from inventory which either cost L$10 to upload or L$10 to take a snapshot.

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42 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Really? So the number one request is "how do I hide my look at but show everyone else's" ?

That's... pathetic?

Nowadays my reply to Ims from people going "ho ho ho I see you looking at me" tend to be in the lines of "Should I care?"

Ditto. I was role-playing a few days ago and in a neighboring (open combat) sim and long story short: I start radar-camming around looking for the "danger" - cammed in on one (likely AFKer) and she IMs me with "???" - as if anyone has any say about others camming on them. "MOM! He's looking at MEEEE!"

32 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I agree, it's annoying that the standard LL viewer doesn't have that option.  It's only a few seconds' work to type the information in, but it would be so much nicer if the viewer remembered it.  Still ....

Alyona's got it.  There is no "better"; just what fits your needs and is most familiar.

I am a firm believer that *all* viewers are very good viewers. I actually like the LL viewer a lot myself and, *for me,* it outperforms Firestorm with the same graphics settings. I do Catznip over Official viewer because I rely on my CTS Wardrobe (RLVa needed) and it even outperforms the LL viewer ,*for me,* at Ultra graphics settings.

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Just now, Alyona Su said:

Ditto. I was role-playing a few days ago and in a neighboring (open combat) sim and long story short: I start radar-camming around looking for the "danger" - cammed in on one (likely AFKer) and she IMs me with "???" - as if anyone has any say about others camming on them. "MOM! He's looking at MEEEE!"

The use case of 'cheating at RP combat' by being able to see who has found their hiding location comes up far less frequently, probably on a par with people admitting they want area search so they can cheat at hunts.

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4 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The hilarity intensifies when the reason for wanting it turns out to be 'over possessive person A' can demand people stop looking at the crotch of 'their very own person B'.

Trying to explain how the 'avatars center', a weird location in the middle of an avatar, is actually somewhere between the legs and the torso, and that tends to be where the camera anchors, and that in reality, no one is peeking up skirts (etc), is a a waste of time.

Wish I had someone who would yell at strangers just to show how protective they were being of me ... sighs 💔

There is a famous SecondLife Troll video where the troll has a verbal exchange with a group of SL bikers who kept telling him to get his camera out of their face.

It was like a weird episode of tv show that would be called "Sons of Secondlife".

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2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

The use case of 'cheating at RP combat' by being able to see who has found their hiding location comes up far less frequently, probably on a par with people admitting they want area search so they can cheat at hunts.

Yes, I remember in the old days (200x's) when people wanted some way to disable the minimap. LOL

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Nope, because I don't care. It's in FS, the only viewer I will use, and that's just one of the big reasons I won't use the LL viewer.

But you have to understand that from a scripting standpoint anytime a viewer renders a built-in feature useless, there is a workaround using scripts. The problem is that the only thing i can effectively do with the information is a swift kick back home.

And trust me I'd love to have less drastic options because that's kind of ... unpleasant to say the least.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir

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My region build had a lot of small details, tunnels, pipes, and lots of atmospherics that triggered when an avatar would walk past. You could tell where an explorer was on the region by the sound effects, and once they started wandering it was always rewarding to hear them finish the circuit.

People who flew though tunnels and connected rooms, blasting though any assembled avatars and knocking them around like skittles would find themselves back at home pretty sharpish. I'd rather they just cammed from the landing point, missed everything, and left disappointed.

 

If someone can set Linden provided rules for their own parcel, then all viewers should respect that .. least of all the Linden one.

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1 hour ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I hope my.secondlife.com will still exist in some shape or form, I know a few people who use profile feeds a lot.

I don't know. I used to use it a lot and loved it. But it has been so dysfunctional for so long now and I'm sure if LL had been able to repair it, they would have done so by now. Maybe it's better to put it out of its misery. How hard would it be to add something like the profile feed to the old and functional system?

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AFAIK, the entire web side will go away eventually. They wont flip the switch the same day the Linden viewer gets inworld profiles to give people time to switch over. But I can't see it hanging around more than a few months.

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If they had..

-Legacy search and profiles as an option

-UUID in profiles

-Look at and mouse head follow options without needing to fiddle with debug and XML files

-Two mouse button walk/run

-Legacy chat bar and group chats with an extra option to turn off individual groups IM

-Finally, didn’t wipe all debug settings with each update so you have to trawl back through and do it all again

I would use LL viewer exclusively as it runs  way better than any other viewer on my computer. But sadly it won’t happen so firestorm / alchemy it is

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But you have to understand that from a scripting standpoint anytime a viewer renders a built-in feature useless, there is a workaround using scripts. The problem is that the only thing i can effectively do with the information is a swift kick back home.

And trust me I'd love to have less drastic options because that's kind of ... unpleasant to say the least.

If a region/parcel owner is going to have me teleported home for flying I don't want to be there anyway. That will simply make me put that location on a "too crappy to visit again" list.

It is my understanding that there is nothing you can do in Firestorm that can't be done in the Linden Lab viewer by adjusting debug settings anyway. So this function is available in all viewers; it's just more convenient in viewers that have the toggle in the UI. In all my years of using the fly override I've never been teleported or sanctioned for using it. My only reason for using it is because it gets me from point A to point B faster in laggy situations. I will continue to use it.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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39 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

If a region/parcel owner is going to have me teleported home for flying I don't want to be there anyway. That will simply make me put that location on a "too crappy to visit again" list.

It is my understanding that there is nothing you can do in Firestorm that can't be done in the Linden Lab viewer by adjusting debug settings anyway. So this function is available in all viewers; it's just more convenient in viewers that have the toggle in the UI. In all my years of using the fly override I've never been teleported or sanctioned for using it. My only reason for using it is because it gets me from point A to point B faster in laggy situations. I will continue to use it.

As a rule, like you, I do not agree with areas having general No Fly designations when it isn't a role play area.

I have enabled 'Fly after teleport', primarily because it is far faster for me to fly up a smidgen to get away from the landing point of a laggy area than try to rubber-band walk all over everyone else at the landing point.  I typically stay in fly mode until things have rezzed and I've cammed around to figure out where it is I actually want to be.  Usually, I then only fly enough to get away from the landing point crowd, though sometimes to the store itself if it is quite a ways from the landing zone then I will fly to the store.  Only in really large stores with no intermediate TP points, do I continue flying around the store.

 

While in flight mode at a new store once, while waiting for things to finish rezzing, I actually was TPd home with a message about not flying.  Guess what?  Yep, I never bother to return to that store.  I have TPd into a few areas while doing hunts that gave me messages about flying, saying that I would be ejected if I continued flying.  I simply left and did not return.

 

There have been a few immersive hunts that I've done, that do not allow flying within the hunt.  Since that is part of the hunt rules that I agree to before doing the hunt, I don't have a problem with those and I will turn off my flying during those hunts.  

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17 hours ago, Angelina Sinclair said:

 

This spoke out a lot to me.  "If the learning curve is the same then it might as well do it on a viewer with more features."

I do enjoy FS but there is just sooo many features. It got so bad they had to add a search bar for their features because at a glance you couldn't find what you wanted. That is just a bad case of feature creep. Some of it can stay but others bits of it should just go.

The trouble with this is, which bits should go is going to be different for everyone. Which is why they should all stay, and let users choose which features to use.

I rarely use the search-for-features bar because I know which features I use regularly and they are on my customised toolbar.

I don't even know which of those features are missing from the official viewer because I haven't used it in maybe 10 years (before Firestorm I used the dreaded Phoenix). Aside form the client-AO, which is the main reason I don't use any viewer besides Firestorm now. The thought of having to re-create my entire AO in a new HUD gives me hives.

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1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

If a region/parcel owner is going to have me teleported home for flying I don't want to be there anyway. That will simply make me put that location on a "too crappy to visit again" list.

And that's a problem, I wish, as a scripter that there would be less extreme options available to us, but that's literally all we have available on the scripted end of things.

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16 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

And that's a problem, I wish, as a scripter that there would be less extreme options available to us, but that's literally all we have available on the scripted end of things.

Well, no.  At the parcel level, we also have llEjectFromLand, which is significantly less harsh, especially if you give the intruder a fair amount of time to leave or at least stop flying. And of course, you can always try the polite -- but less likely to succeed -- option of reminding the intruder that they are in a no-fly area.  That gives the person a chance, innocent or not, to say "'oops" and save face by landing.

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7 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Well, no.  At the parcel level, we also have llEjectFromLand, which is significantly less harsh, especially if you give the intruder a fair amount of time to leave or at least stop flying. And of course, you can always try the polite -- but less likely to succeed -- option of reminding the intruder that they are in a no-fly area.  That gives the person a chance, innocent or not, to say "'oops" and save face by landing.

Less maybe but it's still a proverbial "kick in the butt", where a much simpler option would be to "move" the offending avatar back to a legit position or something like that.

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1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Less maybe but it's still a proverbial "kick in the butt", where a much simpler option would be to "move" the offending avatar back to a legit position or something like that.

I agree.  If you are working within an Experience, you can do that, but relatively few landowners are.  Short of that, though, at least a friendly reminder/warning with a decent delay time gives the intruder a chance to repent.  That beats the instant trip home.

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