Advertising vs Branding in SL

[Mollymews]

15 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

That would be fully valid if all these groups on the SL16B were official non-profit organizations, but to my beleive, that is not the case.

The SL16B is full of all kinds of groups, many relies in donations to keep lands, others usually host parties and events where they asks for tips in a way or the other. Profits are all over Second Life cause expenses are all over Second Life.

I fail to see the logic here.

Seba, nothing personal ok, but you seem to be looking for a justification to put your merchant brand logo/name on a SL16B display. You are not going to find a justification and any merchant logo/name will get removed  by the SLB16 admin

its not about who gets revenue, who earns, who/what profits, how money is exchanged or what for

the rule is pretty straight forward.  Are we a merchant, yes or no ? If yes then we can't brand our SL16B display

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

30 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

That would be fully valid if all these groups on the SL16B were official non-profit organizations, but to my beleive, that is not the case.

The SL16B is full of all kinds of groups, many relies in donations to keep lands, others usually host parties and events where they asks for tips in a way or the other. Profits are all over Second Life cause expenses are all over Second Life.

I fail to see the logic here.

Right, then how about this. What do YOU offer other than pure selling of merchandise? If your answer is "nothing", then that is the difference. You are selling stuff to benefit only yourself by putting money into your own pocket. Groups are offering activities and experiences; if they take in any funds, it is for the benefit of the GROUP.

It really is that simple. 

[Seba Serpente]

14 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Right, then how about this. What do YOU offer other than pure selling of merchandise? If your answer is "nothing", then that is the difference. You are selling stuff to benefit only yourself by putting money into your own pocket. Groups are offering activities and experiences; if they take in any funds, it is for the benefit of the GROUP.

It really is that simple. 

In my opinion merchansts serve in various ways. Yes, they generate profit. It is an honest job, people have jobs and this is one of them. Merchants create content, this means, creates things for people to use, to enjoy, to experience. Second Life would be a really boring minecraft if there only were prims to enjoy.

Not all merchants has their minds set on simply profits. There are merchants that genuinely create to enjoy themselves, be creative, be usefull, let others enjoy. They create things that are not necesarily profitable but they do it cause is needed. My business is not particularly profitable, I do believe i could generate more money if I were to make stuff everyone makes, but I don't. My aim is a smaller community that does not get many good products their way cause is not that profitable.

There's everything for everything.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Seba Serpente
typo

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

Do you make a profit of money you keep in YOUR pocket... if so it's an advertisement... if not then it is just a logo...

It's never just a logo.

Company's routinely spend millions for a logo, and a brand can live or die by the result. 

 

 

 

SL might just be small fry, but the marketing and branding game is still played the same.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

52 minutes ago, Seba Serpente said:

In my opinion merchansts serve in various ways. Yes, they generate profit. It is an honest job, people have jobs and this is one of them. Merchants create content, this means, creates things for people to use, to enjoy, to experience. Second Life would be a really boring minecraft if there only were prims to enjoy.

Not all merchants has their minds set on simply profits. There are merchants that genuinely create to enjoy themselves, be creative, be usefull, let others enjoy. They create things that are not necesarily profitable but they do it cause is needed. My business is not particularly profitable, I do believe i could generate more money if I were to make stuff everyone makes, but I don't. My aim is a smaller community that does not get many good products their way cause is not that profitable.

There's everything for everything.

I think you are deliberately missing everyone's point, but no matter. The bosses have spoken, and the decision is what it is. Hope you enjoy SL16B even if you cannot advertise there.

[Seba Serpente]

26 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I think you are deliberately missing everyone's point, but no matter. The bosses have spoken, and the decision is what it is. Hope you enjoy SL16B even if you cannot advertise there.

Intention has never been advertising, but I appreciate your wishes.

[Evangeline Ling]

1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

It's never just a logo.

Company's routinely spend millions for a logo, and a brand can live or die by the result. 

 

 

 

SL might just be small fry, but the marketing and branding game is still played the same.

You are totally taking my comment and response out of context... Strabucks IS a business and therefore if starbuck was somehow present at SLB i would assume their logo would not be allowed.... but say I made a logo of me making a derpy face and all it was was a cute way of saying Eva has a derpy face then that is not an advertisement for profit... The context of the conversation was... When is a logo allowed and when isnt it... The answer is simple... when the purpose of the logo is to make a profit or at least try to.

[Coffee Pancake]

38 minutes ago, Evangeline Ling said:

You are totally taking my comment and response out of context... Strabucks IS a business and therefore if starbuck was somehow present at SLB i would assume their logo would not be allowed.... but say I made a logo of me making a derpy face and all it was was a cute way of saying Eva has a derpy face then that is not an advertisement for profit... The context of the conversation was... When is a logo allowed and when isnt it... The answer is simple... when the purpose of the logo is to make a profit or at least try to.

Well that's just it .. if you made something to denote "a cute way of saying Eva has a derpy face", that's just a picture.

The use of Logo that is attached to some business is basically the crux of the OP's question. There is no difference between a starbucks logo and 'my little sl shoppe' aside from one being a mega corporation and the acceptance that their logo 'should' be everywhere.

The OP's intent isn't to make a fuss (or cause trouble for everyone who is quietly breaking all the rules), it's to not personally screw up due to interpretation. The very fact he asked a mole and got a "i don't know"  makes that pretty clear. Patch's statement of 'if you have to wonder, dont' isn't really helpful .. some people worry more than others, OP just wants some reassurance as it pertains to his specific case (even if others are overtly breaking rules).

There are lines and different attitudes. Some like a clear definition so they can be sure they are in compliance, others don't care till they are caught over the line, and others don't even see a the possibility of a line as it applies to their actions .. just a big grey smoosh.

 

 

[Seba Serpente]

I don't think any second life merchant has a logo with the weight of starbucks logo, but lets say we can scale them to the same level...

You cannot possibly compare my logo to a mayor creator in sl... lets say... Roost? Noone f***g knows my brand, honestly.

[Fox Wijaya]

given as examples some posts back it's very simple for me, if i see, or get notices/messages, advertisement in Belliseria there will go a AR to LL .. fast, simple and clean.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Fox Wijaya

[Polenth Yue]

18 hours ago, Fionalein said:

A wiser wording might have been "no primarily commercial activity"... because IMHO you never can exclude the commercial aspects - they are undenyably always there.

This is the issue I was trying to get at. Small creators don't have a firm separation of commercial and non-commercial. My website has some things that are free and some things that are for sale. I don't have separate websites based on whether something is for sale or not. That's where my caution about the rules came up, because it's harder to see how to apply it when not talking about a big business, but also not talking about a non-profit. A lot of people do a bit of both in a mess together.

The answers to my questions are that landmarks are fine in gifts and author/artist website links are also fine. So it was worth asking.

[Fionalein]

15 hours ago, Seba Serpente said:

Noone f***g knows my brand, honestly.

And there I was thinking you were some SL equivalent to what ecconomists call a "Hidden Giant" - an almost monopolist in a niche market...

Edited June 5, 2019 by Fionalein

[Seba Serpente]

Saw this at Bellisseria Squishy Pickle. Not sure if this is good or bad, I can't tell with the current definitions.  It is an eyesore in my opinion , but sadly that is not in question.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Seba Serpente
typo

[Seba Serpente]

1 hour ago, Fionalein said:

And there I was thinking you were some SL equivalent to what ecconomists call a "Hidden Giant" - an almost monopolist in a niche market...

I am aware of a few competitors, I woudnt say i have a monopoly myself. I do try to stay in good terms with others creators on my market, as is so small, is a good idea to simply co-exist and create each one different things.

[Coffee Pancake]

Does that house boat have a mini Tower of Sauron on top ?

[Seba Serpente]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Does that house boat have a mini Tower of Sauron on top ?

It seems so. also.. the yellow flags are actually parody of the flags next door. Thats some cool home owner.

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:57 PM, Seba Serpente said:

Saw this at Bellisseria Squishy Pickle. Not sure if this is good or bad, I can't tell with the current definitions.  It is an eyesore in my opinion , but sadly that is not in question.

Don't you know about the LCC (Leeward Cruising Club)?  They're a Resident group, boating centric. In Bellisseria, friendly individuals who are part of that group turn on rez with a few minutes auto-return to set up rez zones.  They use yellow for long distance visibility and the fact that they use sky signs that you can see on the map. Those little yellow [LCC] rectangles are them. They're active throughout SL.

The parcels owned by their friends in Bellisseria don't have commercial activity, don't have tip jars and don't give out landmarks.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

Just gonna leave this here...

lee·ward

/ˈlēwərd,ˈlo͞oərd/

Learn to pronounce

adjective & adverb

 

1. 1.

   on or toward the side sheltered from the wind; downwind.

   "the leeward side of the house"

noun

 

1. 1.

   the side sheltered or away from the wind.

   "the ship was drifting to leeward"

[Seba Serpente]

On 6/9/2019 at 10:58 PM, CronoCloud Creeggan said:

Don't you know about the LCC (Leeward Cruising Club)?  They're a Resident group, boating centric. In Bellisseria, friendly individuals who are part of that group turn on rez with a few minutes auto-return to set up rez zones.  They use yellow for long distance visibility and the fact that they use sky signs that you can see on the map. Those little yellow [LCC] rectangles are them. They're active throughout SL.

The parcels owned by their friends in Bellisseria don't have commercial activity, don't have tip jars and don't give out landmarks.

 

Sorry, the whole idea doen't makes much sence to me.

Fortunately, the moles saw earlier in the Bellisseria release, the need for public rez zones, and thankfully created these arround the continent, so there is no lack on these to feel they need to let everyone around know rez is on in this particular place, and with such an eyesore way to do it. Using one flag is likely enough for this purpose, I believe.

Is curious that this phenomenon also just happens on with this particular group. I don't recall finding houses with huge flags with "drivers of sl" on the streets letting people know they can rez cars there, and there is certainly many houses owned by members of that group, and they have rez on. I don't identify myself with any group and my own parcel has 10 minute auto return as courtesy. I don't advertise it in any way.

Also worth noting that there is plenty of parcels with rez zones all around, not even a rare finding.

 

Not figthing on that if is advertisement or not. This particular case appeals more to the common sence and being contious about other's experience.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

17 hours ago, Seba Serpente said:

Sorry, the whole idea doen't makes much sence to me.

Fortunately, the moles saw earlier in the Bellisseria release, the need for public rez zones, and thankfully created these arround the continent, so there is no lack on these to feel they need to let everyone around know rez is on in this particular place, and with such an eyesore way to do it. Using one flag is likely enough for this purpose, I believe.

Is curious that this phenomenon also just happens on with this particular group. I don't recall finding houses with huge flags with "drivers of sl" on the streets letting people know they can rez cars there, and there is certainly many houses owned by members of that group, and they have rez on. I don't identify myself with any group and my own parcel has 10 minute auto return as courtesy. I don't advertise it in any way.

Also worth noting that there is plenty of parcels with rez zones all around, not even a rare finding.

 

Not figthing on that if is advertisement or not. This particular case appeals more to the common sence and being contious about other's experience.

 

Thanks. You've just convinced me that going premium is not something I want to do. Not because of the flags. The only thing the flags are advertising is a rez zone for boats. A very specific use. It's a service provided for free by the residents for residents. Very thoughtful of them actually. There was a time when it was almost impossible to find somewhere to rez your catamaran and be able to sail it away from where you rezzed it. It was even harder to find and place to rez a sail something larger than a catamaran. So I, for one, am grateful there are those willing to pay for the waterfront and allow complete strangers to use their dock(s) for free. It's even that way in RL still, in some places.

Edited June 12, 2019 by Selene Gregoire
typo

[RoxyCyn]

A commercial brand is a business name, design, marque or logo (to name a few examples) used for sales & marketing.  Advertising is the use of a brand to promote, sell, draw attention or differentiate from other commercial enterprises (businesses).  SL16B has application forms for Exhibitors & Merchants with specific rules for each intended use & Exhibitors are not permitted to advertise at the event.  S2 (by Seba Serpente) is a business selling products in-world, in a store & on Marketplace. Regardless of size, amount of profit/loss or other lofty ideals, selling products with a logo, storefront & marketplace presence is a business, pure & simple.  Lots of creators are making buildings, signs, chairs, lights, tools & airport décor. Making unique ones separates each business from the others. Policing the SL16B event or residential areas against other alleged violations of the advertising rules is best left to the administrators running the event.  As a business, the Merchant application (not Exhibitor) would have been the appropriate form to submit as the intent was clear & the function clearly defined.

As another stated, Leeward CC is a boating group gathering like-minded people together for the purpose of enjoying boating across the grid; not a business.  Their use of yellow flags is nothing more than marking their locations with areas for SL residents to rez their boats.  The fact that some people mark their rez areas & others don't is of no consequence.  While Seba might find it offensive, many people (particularly sailors) welcome it.

Making broad generalizations about parties, events, tips & donations is over reaching & is not profit by definition.  Profit is derived from the sale of goods/services.  Drawing attention to a group that does not sell anything is a moot point.  Displaying a name, brand, logo or marque to sell, promote or draw attention to products being sold is advertising.  It really is that simple.

Edited June 12, 2019 by RoxyCyn
punctuation

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

But what if I keep my curtains closed? Would branding be ok then?

Edited June 12, 2019 by Arduenn Schwartzman
Renton: "I love the smell of bacon in the morning."