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Axelfoxthefoxyfluff

Why isn't Sansar available for mac?

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Same reason it's not available for Linux.  They aren't paying the moles enough.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Axelfoxthefoxyfluff said:

I think there are lots of mac users and i think it would be good if it was ported to mac.

Ebbe Altberg was asked about it in an interview a year or four ago and his answer was "Oh yes, we'll have to make a Mac client too."

There is one problem that may or may not be important. All graphics programs uses an API (Application Programming Interface) to do all the heavy graphics work. This is not something each software developer make themselves, they use a standard ready-made one.

There used to be two common ones that were supported by all major platforms:

  • OpenGL is an open source API maintained by Khronos (a club with all the big OS and gpu developers/manufacturers). This is the one SL uses.
  • Direct3D (usually called DirectX) is owned and maintained by Microsoft but they chose to make it available for others too since if they didn't everybody would have used OpenGL instead. This is the one used by Sansar.

Recently both Apple and Microsoft have tried to get away from cross-platform compatibiity. Apple no longer supports Direct3D but only their own API (called "Metal") and an old version of OpenGL. They have anounced that they'll quit supporting OpenGL too son. Microsoft still kind'a supports Direct3D for other platforms than their own Windows but they're not very enthusiastic about it and their support of other APIs - OpenGL and the new Vulkan - is rather half-hearted.

The result is that porting software between platforms is not nearly as easy as it used to be.

Edited by ChinRey

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Mac OS is ... lacklustre when it comes to gaming performance and a tiny minority, right now they are having enough trouble getting Windows users to stick around.

Heck, our own tests as part of making a Mac version of Catznip is that booting into windows on the same hardware can get up to 40% better performance. This is somewhat dependent on which flavor gfx your Mac has, but we have yet to get any reports that OSX runs the viewer faster than Windows on the same hardware. 

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Worldwide, the percentage of Mac users is about 3-5%.

Sansar got about 50 users a day when it was new. Probably less than half that now.  Let's be generous and say 20 users a day.

3% of 20 is 0.6 of a person.

I guess they decided it wasn't worth paying a lot of money to build a client that nobody would use.

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7 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

Worldwide, the percentage of Mac users is about 3-5%.

Sansar got about 50 users a day when it was new. Probably less than half that now.  Let's be generous and say 20 users a day.

3% of 20 is 0.6 of a person.

I guess they decided it wasn't worth paying a lot of money to build a client that nobody would use.

Good measurements are hard to find, but I don't find anything as low as 3-5% for MacOS in the desktop/laptop market.

There's this, showing nearly 14%
And this, showing nearly 10% (With a curious Windows/Other blip in late 2018/early 2019 that should embarrass the data gatherers.)
Wikipedia shows 9.52% (down near the bottom), with a higher usage amongst "professional developers" at 29.2%. (Easiest way to find the statistics on the page is to search for the numbers I quoted, if you're interested).

If you include mobile devices, Android swamps everything at 54.16% (as of 2015 on that Wikipedia page). The mobile gaming market is now larger than both the desktop and console gaming markets combined, and that all happened in a decade. The desktop and console gaming are still growing, albeit slowly in comparison, so there is still some sunshine ahead.

None of this refutes your observation that developing for MacOS may not be worth it.

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Posted (edited)

Oh great, another new LL word/phrase.   I'm compiling a dictionary

  • Some day = not in your lifetime.
  • we're working on it = we'll probably stop talking about this for a few years.
  • Soon = eventually, maybe this year or next.
  • Very soon = could be within 6 months..
  • in 24 hours = before the end of next month.
Edited by anna2358
typo
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6 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

Why don't people drive their Ferraris and Lambikinis to work daily?

It's so much trouble moving the Bentley out of the drive.  Doh!

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7 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

Why don't people drive their Ferraris and Lambikinis to work daily?

Because I can't drive them both at the same time and it's so hard to choose.

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14 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Heck, our own tests as part of making a Mac version of Catznip is that booting into windows on the same hardware can get up to 40% better performance. This is somewhat dependent on which flavor gfx your Mac has, but we have yet to get any reports that OSX runs the viewer faster than Windows on the same hardware. 

A bit off topic but I don't actually notice that much difference in SL performance between my li'l MacBook Pro and my consideably stronger Windows desktop computer. I think it's because of one crucial performance factor we've always overlooked: Monitor size.

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Posted (edited)

Image you

12 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

I guess they decided it wasn't worth paying a lot of money to build a client that nobody would use.

Instead of building a mac client to enter the walking simulator Sansar (Ah wait, after years of development you finally can jump), they should focus on a new android and MacOs client for Secondlife.
Programming a gaming app is not really as difficult as rocket science as much as i know, and if its still too hard, maybe they should have a coffee with the lumyia creator.
 

Edited by Resi Pfeffer
typo
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1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

A bit off topic but I don't actually notice that much difference in SL performance between my li'l MacBook Pro and my consideably stronger Windows desktop computer. I think it's because of one crucial performance factor we've always overlooked: Monitor size.

Pffft.  I run SL on a 110" screen with no problems.

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28 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Pffft.  I run SL on a 110" screen with no problems.

Point your projector outside and see if your frame rate drops.

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No, but someone passing by started screaming "My eyes!  My eyes!"

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Windows is Maitreya and Mac is TMP. 

You have a point but not really.

I don't suppose there's much risk of starting a Mac vs. Windows war these days so I'll take the chance since it's relevant to SL on several levels.

The Mac has been all about design since Jony Ive joined the company in 1991 but there's something very important about design so many people (indlucing apparently and sadly the current Apple leadership) don't understand: Good design is never ever skin deep. A fresh lick of paint and a few shinies bolted on is not enough, it has to go deeper. Ive is a huge fan of Dieter Rams who created his ten principles of "Good Design" in the 1970s:

Good design

  • is innovative
  • makes a product useful
  • is aesthetic
  • makes a product understandable
  • is unobtrusive
  • is honest
  • is long-lasting
  • is thorough down to the last detail
  • is environmentally friendly
  • is as little design as possible

These were the principles Ive tried to follow when he designed all those classic Apple products and the looks is only one out of ten. How well he succeeded is up to discussion of course and although he's still Apple's chief designer, they seem to have slipped a lot recently. Maybe he's been overruled - who knows.

So you can't really compare Apple to TMP this way because although TMP got the aesthetics right, they missed many of the other points.

Edited by ChinRey

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2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

So you can't really compare Apple to TMP this way because although TMP got the aesthetics right, they missed many of the other points.

Okay. Mac is Belleza Isis.

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22 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

Worldwide, the percentage of Mac users is about 3-5%.

Sansar got about 50 users a day when it was new. Probably less than half that now.  Let's be generous and say 20 users a day.

3% of 20 is 0.6 of a person.

I guess they decided it wasn't worth paying a lot of money to build a client that nobody would use.

If only statistics translated this simply to reality.

10 hours ago, ChinRey said:

A bit off topic but I don't actually notice that much difference in SL performance between my li'l MacBook Pro and my consideably stronger Windows desktop computer. I think it's because of one crucial performance factor we've always overlooked: Monitor size.

I think you meant resolution! A 12-inch, 1080p monitor at 50Hz is going to affect your performance as much as a 60-inch 1080p TV at 120Hz, which is none. But moving from 1080p to 4K resolution is very taxing on your computer, even if you're using the exact same monitor.

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34 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I think you meant resolution!

Yes of course. My mistake.

Except there is a human side to it too and it depends on size rather than resolution. We don't notice as many details on a small screen as on a big (for obvious reason), nor do we notice lower frame rate as much.

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