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JoiMarie

Increasing the 300 Linden Stipend

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Why stop at 500? Make it 5000 or 500,000! One Hundred Million! MUHAHAHAHA!

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6 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

 If they raise the stipends then they MUST also raise the cost of premium to cover raising the stipend. 

Er... they did that.

Would have been nice if they increased the stipend in proportion to the rise in premium cost. That would be L$412 or L$550 or L$688, depending on which stipend you get.

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Lindens are money, but LL can create it at will.  I really don't know if it would cost LL money to raise the premium stipend.  There are probably some complications.  "Printing more money" could lower the value of the Linden.

But if it costs (and I don't know if it does; it seems it would but I can't claim to be sure) LL a lot less to provide L$ than the L$ are worth to the user, then they should increase the stipend to somewhat make up for the increased prices.  It doesn't have to be proportional.  I'll take half the difference in L$ and be willing to accept the tradeoff and stop complaining.

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As far as the fee increase, I really think their biggest mistake was removing quarterly for future folks.  I realize that it means they have to pay 4 times the credit card or PayPal processing fee, but for those that cannot afford to pay annually, it did at least give them a way to save a bit over the monthly fee.  Additionally, if those current quarterly folks decide to do an annual prepay to save some money, they get switched to the annual billing plan and may not be able to go back to quarterly.  The 'grandfathering' of that likely only applies until you move off of that plan for any reason.  

 

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I don't think there's any direct cost to Linden Lab to "print more money" in this way, except perhaps for the time to pay someone to re-code the software.

Technically it would slightly devalue the Linden dollar but that doesn't really apply either, since they keep it at a fixed rate tied to the US dollar. However, giving users more cash to spend in-world would boost the economy. I believe there's 60,000 Premium users, if they each got an extra L$100 a week,  that's L$312 MILLION a year, or US$1.25 million, injected straight in to the in-world economy.

Raising the fees for cashing out was a smart move; it encourages people to keep and spend their L$ in-world instead of removing money from the economy.

Every dollar cashed out is L$250 removed from the economy and not spent on another creator's products.

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19 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

The "regular" stipends - not tied to the Charter Membership - include the L$500 amount.  I knew a Charter member way back in the day and he told me about the 4096 tier, but I have no clue what his stipend was.  The Knowledgebase gives the other stipend values:

image.png.94432e3bdea0cb2c03be9cdcde78dfb4.png

 

From 'https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/premium-membership-r346/#Section__3_2"

 

I created my firstest, original account on July 25, 2006. Cannot believe how closely I barely missed out. 

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Based on info back  in Jan of this year, Premium membership is definitely above 60,000 - at that time there were a bit over 60,000 unique Mainland land owners.  Add to that any Premium that only owns private regions and any Premium that doesn't own land at all.

In any event, I wonder how many Premiums truly do save up the stipends and cash it out to pay for their Premium membership.  That is really where the actual cost to LL would come into play when doling out stipends to folks. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Madison531 said:

Lindens are money, but LL can create it at will.  I really don't know if it would cost LL money to raise the premium stipend.

It would cost them money.

Linden dollars vanish from the market all the time through various "money sinks" - all those little fees LL charges as well as Linden dollars that vanish into inactive and deleted accounts.

To maintain a suitable amount of L$ in circulation, LL has to keep filling up with fresh money and they have to get it out to the users. They give some of it away as prize money at the official games and they occasionally spend some of it buying content on MP for their own use but that can't be nearly enough to make any difference. The premium stipends probably makes up a much larger part of the new Linden dollars but it's still nearly enough so most of it they simply sell on LindEx just like any user with could do and they are paid in US dollars just like any user would be (except they proably don't charge themselves a transaction fee - it would have been silly if they did).

They have to keep a balance, makign sure the amount of new money they add is enough to replace what vanishes into the money sink but not more than that. So if they pay more in premium stipends, they'll have less left to sell for RL dollars.

Edited by ChinRey
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38 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Based on info back  in Jan of this year, Premium membership is definitely above 60,000

That many? I always suspected my alts had alts they kept secret from me but I never thought they were all premium members!

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Posted (edited)

I don't know that the L$:USD is fixed per-se, as you can still see a spread when you go to the manage tab to sell/buy.

I had 500/wk on my oldest account (400 on this :( ) but the value of the L$ was lower in terms of cash-out or conversion to cover tier/subscription etc. I was pretty economically active and I remember transacting at around 310-320 per USD, so the L$ was "worth" 0.32 cents, and on Lindex that 500 stipend would get you (less than this after fees) $1.58

Under the current fairly stable 250:1 (usually 252:1 when I sell but I don't quibble) each L$ is worth 0.4 cents, and 300 of those are $1.20 (less after fees). If they bumped the Stipend to 375 it would be about the same as it used to be.

The L$ economy is a nice introduction to the concept of sectoral balances though.

 

Edited by Yorkie Bardeen
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I'm still thankful for the 300L per week even with the upcoming price increase. I don't really feel at this point there should be an increase for the weekly stipend. After the initial shock and upset from it, I just realized how much use I actually get from my premium membership which is a lot. I'll still be getting my money's worth even with the price increase. It fits my budget needs so I really cannot ask for more than that. I only wish they were keeping quarterly payment option because it really is beneficial and I think it shouldn't be grandfathered.

I'm super happy they changed their mind on taking groups away from basic members. As to suggesting taking away the stipends older basic member accounts get, just no. I think there has been enough of the have and have nots approach over the past week. Alienating part of the community isn't going to solve things. 

I just want things to be fair for everyone. 😊

 

 

 

 

 

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On 6/1/2019 at 6:42 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

There are older members that get L$400 weekly and even older ones that get L$500 weekly -- really, really old accounts.

I get L$500 a week and I'm premium. Before I became premium, I had a stipend of L$50 a week on basic. The join window for residents getting that was very short back in 2006 and I was just lucky to have discovered SL on one of them days. 
If LL increases the stipend from L$300 for premium memberships (the new ones ) then I would hope that they would raise the stipends across the board for all premium memberships - and maybe call the 'old old' accounts stipend 'pensions' instead of stipends - that would be cool:) 

 

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On 6/2/2019 at 3:33 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

As far as the fee increase, I really think their biggest mistake was removing quarterly for future folks.  I realize that it means they have to pay 4 times the credit card or PayPal processing fee, but for those that cannot afford to pay annually, it did at least give them a way to save a bit over the monthly fee.  Additionally, if those current quarterly folks decide to do an annual prepay to save some money, they get switched to the annual billing plan and may not be able to go back to quarterly.  The 'grandfathering' of that likely only applies until you move off of that plan for any reason.  

 

The quarterly membership was their most popular plan, as stated on the premium membership page - though not sure if that lil graphic of 'most popular' is still  on there or not. 

I had my land alt on quarterly, but I will be downgrading her back to basic, keeping my main at premium only. 

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On 6/2/2019 at 12:52 PM, Blush Bravin said:

It really boggles my mind that people think Lindens are just some kind of free paper money that can be handed out. If they raise the stipends then they MUST also raise the cost of premium to cover raising the stipend. Lindens = money .... money = real money..... Come on people start thinking. 

The counter argument to that is that LL are already raising the cost of premium, so we're already giving them more money. The counter counter argument to that is that LL are raising the price for a reason, and raising the stipend by the same amount or more defeats the point of the price hike.

In another thread I suggested a raise to 350L per week. It might not seem like much, but it amounts to a single-colour item of clothing every month or so. More importantly, it ensures that both parties benefit from the price hike; LL get more money from each subscription, and we get a noticeable benefit to accompany the price hike. Any larger increase than that however, and the Lab is lowering their per-account income while putting up the price. Which makes the opposite of sense.

(Unpopular opinion time: LL shouldn't have grandfathered in the old, higher stipend amounts. Sure, they should have honoured any already-paid-for time at the older rate, but once the subscription is renewed the stipend should have dropped to the new level. Those higher stipend premium accounts barely make LL any money, and in some cases are probably operating at a net loss.)

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On 6/2/2019 at 2:50 AM, EricaRiecter said:

i think that the weekly Linden Stipend should be increased to $1000 Lindens for all premium members, since everyone here pays so much for being a premium member cause $300 Lindens a week doesn't hardly work, i think it only fair for Linden Labs to do that for everyone who pay for being a premium member.

Lets do the math then:

  • 1000L$ every week, that's 52 stipends per year so 52000L$.
  • A premium account will cost you 99$.
  • At its current value, 52000L$ will net you 199.93$

... Do you see the problem?

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On 6/2/2019 at 9:42 PM, Matty Luminos said:

I don't think there's any direct cost to Linden Lab to "print more money" in this way, except perhaps for the time to pay someone to re-code the software.

Technically it would slightly devalue the Linden dollar but that doesn't really apply either, since they keep it at a fixed rate tied to the US dollar. However, giving users more cash to spend in-world would boost the economy. I believe there's 60,000 Premium users, if they each got an extra L$100 a week,  that's L$312 MILLION a year, or US$1.25 million, injected straight in to the in-world economy.

Raising the fees for cashing out was a smart move; it encourages people to keep and spend their L$ in-world instead of removing money from the economy.

Every dollar cashed out is L$250 removed from the economy and not spent on another creator's products.

I think the raise in land with free tier from 512 to 1024 was a real boost. I know I signed up for premium and several alts. I am sure it lead to more mainland sales, more ppl asking to buy abandoned land, I think it was a big boost for the Mainland. 

And I am sure it was for the homes and gardens merchants too. We will probably never hear a store owner say: "Yes, my sales went up", but I bought a lot. I don't think I am unique person.

And I think the in-world economy would benefit from a raised stipend too.

 

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Threads like this make me realize how people really don’t convert L$ into real money very well.

At the current rate of $L 300 per week stipend and the increase to $99, you’re still basically paying $51 a year.

$L500 sounds like a nice round number and a new outfit a week, but LL would be paying you to be premium. The only way it would be feasible for them to raise the stipend is if you absolutely couldn’t cash it out. Now we’re going down the road of two different currencies. Two currencies are messy.

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Threads like this make me realize how people really don’t convert L$ into real money very well.

At the current rate of $L 300 per week stipend and the increase to $99, you’re still basically paying $51 a year.

$L500 sounds like a nice round number and a new outfit a week, but LL would be paying you to be premium. The only way it would be feasible for them to raise the stipend is if you absolutely couldn’t cash it out. Now we’re going down the road of two different currencies. Two currencies are messy.

 

What people also don't realize is the pressure it puts on the L$ supply. The system would eventually self adjust, with a much lower valued L$ and higher inworld prices.

EDIT: I don't know if this is widespread but I (and other old creators I assume?) used to and still do index prices using the premium stipend as a baseline.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir
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Just now, Kyrah Abattoir said:

What people also don't realize is the pressure it puts on the L$ supply. The system would eventually self adjust, with a much lower valued L$ and higher inworld prices.

The funny thing is, I’ve been seeing a lot of things costing less than $L250 lately.

I’m starting to feel like even if LL gave premium subscribers an entire sim AND a unicorn, there’d  be a thread asking for two sims with premium.

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Just now, janetosilio said:

The funny thing is, I’ve been seeing a lot of things costing less than $L250 lately.

I’m starting to feel like even if LL gave premium subscribers an entire sim AND a unicorn, there’d  be a thread asking for two sims with premium.

Well this is my observation from the Steam forums, but there is always going to be at least one person trying to haggle a price down, regardless of the price.

It's not even out of malice or being cheap, it just doesn't cost anything to try.

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On 6/2/2019 at 9:42 PM, Matty Luminos said:

they keep it at a fixed rate tied to the US dollar.

What do you mean by this? The L$ you buy from the Lindex come from other users. The only time you buy from supply linden is if for some reason L$ became so rare that it hits a certain value, at which supply linden will sell at, but it is not put in action as long as there is a steady flow of cheap L$.

2004, before Linden Labs took over currency exchange was plagued with a much higher L$ volatility. It was bad for everyone excepted the traders.

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10 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Well this is my observation from the Steam forums, but there is always going to be at least one person trying to haggle a price down, regardless of the price.

It's not even out of malice or being cheap, it just doesn't cost anything to try.

No you’re right, I work in the gov’t sector and some people want something for nothing there too. It’s definitely a people thing.

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34 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Threads like this make me realize how people really don’t convert L$ into real money very well.

They really don't. They buy what 'feels' like a good amount of L$, and then the actual value is forgotten. It's further compounded down by people who don't/won't buy L$ and instead play fish based mini games for 10L a day or something stupid.

 

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