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Group limit for free accounts increased back up to 42

Wulfie Reanimator
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Wulfie Reanimator

Wulfie Reanimator

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Posted (edited)

Thank you, @Linden Lab.

PremiumFeatureChange2019.jpg.437706aa24d

Edit: This is the actual Featured News post announcing the new decision:

Quote

Our goal is to increase Group performance for everyone - whether you are Basic or Premium. As a result, we will be prioritizing some development resources to address Group performance.

 

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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Erwin Solo

Erwin Solo

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Outstanding!  My basic alts are having a party! 🤸‍♂️ After all these years I have so many old groups I can't part with that it takes two alts 🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️ just to carry the extras around.  Before the group reduction was lifted, it was looking like I'd need another🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️.

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Theresa Tennyson

Theresa Tennyson

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2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

I guess the problem with groups isn't a real problem after all.

Because there are no aspects of Second Life's structure that are actually bad ideas which cause problems, but which are tolerated because there's no good way of fixing them without causing other problems and/or hysterical pushback.

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Bitsy Buccaneer

Bitsy Buccaneer

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I'd like to know more about the problems in groups. From what I understand, the large groups are most affected so removing accounts from some of those should have the most impact. I can take mine out of a couple of big ones I don't really interact with any more.

How about smaller groups? When do the problems occur? All the time or just when chat opens up? Would turning off group notices help?

Just wondering if there's more information available. I want to do what I can to help reduce the problems, even if it's small.

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Parhelion Palou

Parhelion Palou

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20 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I'd like to know more about the problems in groups. From what I understand, the large groups are most affected so removing accounts from some of those should have the most impact. I can take mine out of a couple of big ones I don't really interact with any more.

How about smaller groups? When do the problems occur? All the time or just when chat opens up? Would turning off group notices help?

Just wondering if there's more information available. I want to do what I can to help reduce the problems, even if it's small.

From what I remember back when LL improved groups (and found that commercial solutions didn't help), allowing us to get to 42 ... group chat is sent to each region that has someone in that group on it. The simulator sends the message to the group members on the region. There must be a controller that receives messages and distributes them to the affected regions. Anyway, the more people in the group, the more of SL is involved in processing the messages. Add more group slots to avatars and there are that many more groups all sending messages through the system. A group used as it was meant to be used - for administration of a parcel or region/regions - wouldn't stress the system. It's using groups as a chat system that's causing the problem. I wondered years ago why LL didn't set up a second type of group that worked outside of the simulators and went directly from avatars to the controller. I suspect that's too far outside of SL's architecture, or LL tried it and it didn't work well. Clarifications to what I've said are welcome; I think I maxed out my memory capacity long ago.

I don't think my alts are in any groups other than my land groups, but I should check. Getting out of unused or rarely used large groups is a good idea.

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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

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1 hour ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

I'd like to know more about the problems in groups. From what I understand, the large groups are most affected so removing accounts from some of those should have the most impact. I can take mine out of a couple of big ones I don't really interact with any more.

How about smaller groups? When do the problems occur? All the time or just when chat opens up? Would turning off group notices help?

Just wondering if there's more information available. I want to do what I can to help reduce the problems, even if it's small.

Some things that have been mentioned as contributing to the performance issue around groups:

- Distribute notices to all members, saving for delivery if they are not online (can't remember if that part plays into the 'offline IM' limit or not)

- Send chat messages to all members that are currently online - meaning they first have to determine every group member's status for every single chat message that is sent.  This one is probably the largest performance issue. 

- Every time you TP anywhere, it has to do a permissions check, which can include scanning all of your group associations, since some places can only be gotten to by certain groups. 

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Bitsy Buccaneer

Bitsy Buccaneer

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Thanks @Parhelion Palou and @LittleMe Jewell. I appreciate your help.

Wow to how resource intensive group chat is. It's become such an important part of SL though and one I've taken very much for granted. Being able to observe all these diverse conversations has been such a lifeline to the rest of the world on days when I can't do much.

About the spaghetti code, could it possibly work to leave the old chat system in place in the code but turn it off via the viewers and add a parallel, more efficient substitute? Far from graceful, but feasible??

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Selene Gregoire

Selene Gregoire

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59 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Being able to observe all these diverse conversations has been such a lifeline to the rest of the world on days when I can't do much.

This is why the only group chat I leave open all the time (after it pops up on its own) is the FS support group. It lets me know I'm not quite so alone inworld. Like leaving the tv or radio on at low volume for "company". Just hearing voices can be comforting. And I do still help out a bit from time to time.

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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

I wonder if it'd help if the "receive group IM's" thing was unchecked by default instead of on

I don't even see that as an option in the LL viewer, which tells me it is completely a client side function.

Even if it was an option, every single time a chat message is sent, the system has to pull the member list, check to see if the member is online or not, and then check to see if the member has checked the little box or not to receive the chat messages.

No matter how you slice it, group chat is a very performance heavy function.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
grammar
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LittleMe Jewell

LittleMe Jewell

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Just now, Digit Gears said:

Oh, well if it is client specific, this is what it looks like for me on Firestorm @LittleMe Jewell

image.png.05afe8361ad8a35f546b9ff3f6dd7058.png

Yeah, and I have unchecked the box for most of my groups.  However, the system still has to do all of the steps that I mentioned above for "every single chat message" in every single chatty group.

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