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Lacie Linden

Saving the ocean, one baby shark at a time. We need YOUR help.

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11 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

There are well over a million headsets out there. VR chat has thousands of active user. Sansar struggles to get 11 concurrent users even after steam release.

I log onto vr chat and there are lots of rooms active which have more users in them that the whole of Sansar manages. They came like I did, they looked, and went meh wtf is this pile of manure

I'm not that surprised that those who love VRChat didn't find Sansar acceptable. I have wondered why Sansar didn't make greater attempts to cater to them though. It appears Sansar doesn't want to cater to people with those types of needs and possibly has something else in mind for VR.

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12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

They came like I did, they looked, and went meh wtf is this pile of manure

 

I hate Sansar Support Group.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not that surprised that those who love VRChat didn't find Sansar acceptable. I have wondered why Sansar didn't make greater attempts to cater to them though. It appears Sansar doesn't want to cater to people with those types of needs and possibly has something else in mind for VR.

I don't by the way doubt the competence of their programmers, I just doubt that the management have any idea what they are doing with Sansar. I personally think Sansar will be canned within the next 2 years. It has failed hard and there is only so much time they will be allowed to keep pouring money into it before investors tell them to stop.

Sansar has burnt millions and there is no sign in will ever turn a profit. You seem confident about Sansar but I cannot see why? I have concurrency figures, falling usage , creators leaving in droves to point to in order to make my case. What do you have apart from what seems to be blind hope

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31 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Sansar has burnt millions and there is no sign in will ever turn a profit. You seem confident about Sansar but I cannot see why? I have concurrency figures, falling usage , creators leaving in droves to point to in order to make my case. What do you have apart from what seems to be blind hope

Because it's easy to put together one's own virtual world/space there, unlike the complexities of doing so at a place like Unity.
And your own little world/space would be more easily seen via being grouped with all the other little 'worlds' that attract others (via their central menu).
In other words, it's more of a unified approach, appeals to the middle people (the masses) and easier for them to utilize.
Of course, all this rests on greater VR adaptation and the ability of Sansar to advertise themselves well.

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Because it's easy to put together one's own virtual world/space there, unlike the complexities of doing so at a place like Unity.
And your own little world/space would be more easily seen via being grouped with all the other little 'worlds' that attract others (via their central menu).
In other words, it's more of a unified approach, appeals to the middle people (the masses) and easier for them to utilize.
Of course, all this rests on greater VR adaptation and the ability of Sansar to advertise themselves well.

But companies dont, need a world, nor do they want outsiders in them. In other words your assertion that companies will use it is about dead wrong. The only thing they might use it for is external advertising and that is unlikely as Sansar is pretty limited as vr apps go

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14 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

But companies dont, need a world, nor do they want outsiders in them. In other words your assertion that companies will use it is about dead wrong. The only thing they might use it for is external advertising and that is unlikely as Sansar is pretty limited as vr apps go

Well, imagine a furniture store that would like a customer to be able to experience their furniture as if they were really there in the room with the furniture. They might not want to pay big money to hire a developer, but they could create their own space for far less cost, only hiring someone to create furniture duplicates instead of the entire setup.
Or what about an author that would like to create an experience for his readers so they could walk around in his world and interact with other readers (I created such an experience in SL, btw, with interactive features related to his book) -- how much better it would be in a VR world where it all felt far more real.

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Well, imagine a furniture store that would like a customer to be able to experience their furniture as if they were really there in the room with the furniture. They might not want to pay big money to hire a developer, but they could create their own space for far less cost, only hiring someone to create furniture duplicates instead of the entire setup.
Or what about an author that would like to create an experience for his readers so they could walk around in his world and interact with other readers (I created such an experience in SL, btw, with interactive features related to his book) -- how much better it would be in a VR world where it all felt far more real.

Yes they are doing that, many shops have that service already, guess what they didnt use sansar

I will ask you again. Show me something solid that makes you think Sansar will ever be anything but a failure?

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5 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Yes they are doing that, many shops have that service already, guess what they didnt use sansar

I will ask you again. Show me something solid that makes you think Sansar will ever be anything but a failure?

I guess you don't understand why what I wrote before would have advantages:

Because it's easy to put together one's own virtual world/space there, unlike the complexities of doing so at a place like Unity.
And your own little world/space would be more easily seen via being grouped with all the other little 'worlds' that attract others (via their central menu).
In other words, it's more of a unified approach, appeals to the middle people (the masses) and easier for them to utilize.
Of course, all this rests on greater VR adaptation and the ability of Sansar to advertise themselves well.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I guess you don't understand why what I wrote before would have advantages:

Because it's easy to put together one's own virtual world/space there, unlike the complexities of doing so at a place like Unity.
And your own little world/space would be more easily seen via being grouped with all the other little 'worlds' that attract others (via their central menu).
In other words, it's more of a unified approach, appeals to the middle people (the masses) and easier for them to utilize.
Of course, all this rests on greater VR adaptation and the ability of Sansar to advertise themselves well.

repeating does you no good, most companies want apps for internal use they do not want them grouped with others

Developing for VR in unity or unreal is actually really quite easy

The masses never wil come to Sansar

Even if everyone in the world had a vr set Sansar would still be a ghost town

Point me to one concrete thing, a stat thats vastly improving for Sansar that makes you say yes this will work. All you have is blind faith. Whereas I have diminishing user count, creators other than hobbyist leaving etc. Go on point me at one positive actual objective thing for Sansar? Oh you can't because there is none

Sansar is more dead than monty pythons parrot the only people who seem not to realise is Lab management and you and a couple of people.

I am stopping answering you now as basically your argument is "Sansar will be good because I believe it will" You have no hard facts to back it up you merely have hope

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6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

VR is the future, and in its infancy.

VR is the past. It's been around for decades now. I tried Jaron Lanier's original VR headset back in the 1980s, and many VR systems since. The lag has improved, the resolution has improved, the headgear is slightly lighter, and you need less expensive hardware to drive it. Other than that, it's about the same. 5% to 15% of users still get nauseated. That's worse than most roller coasters.

The 2017 holiday season was supposed to be the one where VR took over the world. Instead, it was "peak VR". Most of those headsets sold are now in closets or on eBay. None of the VR worlds are doing well. Sansar, SineSpace, and High Fidelity are all under 100 concurrent users. Just not happening. VRchat peaked at around 20,000 on Xmas Day 2017, and then declined. It's now around 8000 concurrent users. The "killer app" for VR right now seems to be Beat Saber, which is very simple but fun and athletic.

The next big try at this seems to be Nostos. Big open world, VR-enabled, anime-like, from NetEase in China, using Improbable's Spatial OS. First big-budget product in that space. Demo in late August. We'll have to see how that works out.

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15 hours ago, animats said:

VR is the past.

The next big try at this seems to be Nostos. Big open world, VR-enabled, anime-like, from NetEase in China, using Improbable's Spatial OS. First big-budget product in that space. Demo in late August. We'll have to see how that works out.

I liken the birth of VR to the birth of a real baby -- the labor pains arise and fade away, but you don't say the baby has died when a set of labor pains recedes. The important point is that VR continues to return in better ways, over and over, as tech increases and as it becomes more affordable.
I don't know where you get your stats, but I know tons of people who get headsets and are super enthused, albeit my experience is a biased sample. And reading reviews, many say VR continue to grow, though not at the hyped rate some believed it would.
The Oculus Quest is very popular now, as well as the games for the recently released Quest.

Anyway, thanks for the link...I had not heard of Nostos...it looks gorgeous, like walking into a storybook adventure:
    


     http://nostos.163.com/ I pre-registered @ their website, which is very unique

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4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I had not heard of Nostos...it looks gorgeous, like walking into a storybook adventure.

No idea if it's going to be any good, but it's the first big-budget Spatial OS game, and we'll get to see how their big-world system works in practice. Improbable's Spatial OS is supposed to support big, Second Life sized seamless worlds. There are invisible region boundaries and they move depending on how many players are in an area. So you can have both huge empty areas and small crowded areas.

Google is now pushing this technology. They've partnered with Improbable and Unity to put Google Earth into a game engine. So far, the games based on that are unimaginative. There's a zombie hunt in a big city, a ghost hunt in a big city, and a dinosaur hunt in a big city.

None of these are as open world as SL. For that, there's Sominium Space, which has building and land ownership in a big seamless world. They're struggling, funded as a Kickstarter. It's probably one guy. But they have a beta working on Steam. They claim they will be out of beta at the end of this summer.

The scaling problems which Linden Labs has failed to solve for years are being solved by others. For sixteen years, LL had big-world pretty much to themselves. That's changing. I point this out occasionally, and each time, there are more and better examples. LL needs to get their act together.

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21 hours ago, animats said:

No idea if it's going to be any good, but it's the first big-budget Spatial OS game, and we'll get to see how their big-world system works in practice. Improbable's Spatial OS is supposed to support big, Second Life sized seamless worlds. There are invisible region boundaries and they move depending on how many players are in an area. So you can have both huge empty areas and small crowded areas.

Google is now pushing this technology. They've partnered with Improbable and Unity to put Google Earth into a game engine. So far, the games based on that are unimaginative. There's a zombie hunt in a big city, a ghost hunt in a big city, and a dinosaur hunt in a big city.

None of these are as open world as SL. For that, there's Sominium Space, which has building and land ownership in a big seamless world. They're struggling, funded as a Kickstarter. It's probably one guy. But they have a beta working on Steam. They claim they will be out of beta at the end of this summer.

The scaling problems which Linden Labs has failed to solve for years are being solved by others. For sixteen years, LL had big-world pretty much to themselves. That's changing. I point this out occasionally, and each time, there are more and better examples. LL needs to get their act together.

lol that Google Earth thing looks crazy...I'm imagining the experience of feeling like I'm walking down my RL street shooting ghosts while hearing the Ghostbusters theme. But I don't know, it might make me wary to actually walk in my RL neighborhood again...especially if I played the Zombie one!

Could Spatial OS come to SL once they fly to the clouds? :)   But...I don't know...it seems SL has sharply veered off from any type of metaverse scenario, but sure would be good to have region crossings be smoother.  Wouldn't SL have to be rebuilt from the ground up and break existing content?

Wow we can get into Sominium Space now, beta...I might try it out.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Could Spatial OS come to SL once they fly to the clouds? :)   But...I don't know...it seems SL has sharply veered off from any type of metaverse scenario, but sure would be good to have region crossings be smoother.  Wouldn't SL have to be rebuilt from the ground up and break existing content?

Wow we can get into Sominium Space now, beta...I might try it out.

SL on Spatial OS has business problems. You have to host on Google's servers, and it's not cheap with a large user base and lots of in-world objects. Which is why they lack AAA titles. But if they solve the scaling problem, someone else will probably do something similar, minus Google.

Edited by animats
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On 6/17/2019 at 11:25 AM, animats said:

No idea if it's going to be any good, but it's the first big-budget Spatial OS game, and we'll get to see how their big-world system works in practice. Improbable's Spatial OS is supposed to support big, Second Life sized seamless worlds. There are invisible region boundaries and they move depending on how many players are in an area. So you can have both huge empty areas and small crowded areas.

Google is now pushing this technology. They've partnered with Improbable and Unity to put Google Earth into a game engine. So far, the games based on that are unimaginative. There's a zombie hunt in a big city, a ghost hunt in a big city, and a dinosaur hunt in a big city.

None of these are as open world as SL. For that, there's Sominium Space, which has building and land ownership in a big seamless world. They're struggling, funded as a Kickstarter. It's probably one guy. But they have a beta working on Steam. They claim they will be out of beta at the end of this summer.

The scaling problems which Linden Labs has failed to solve for years are being solved by others. For sixteen years, LL had big-world pretty much to themselves. That's changing. I point this out occasionally, and each time, there are more and better examples. LL needs to get their act together.

all these worlds my wind up being bigger than second life but they will not have the freedom of it

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12 minutes ago, MaxSilverDragon said:

all these worlds my wind up being bigger than second life but they will not have the freedom of it

I agree. You can't host adult content on Spatial OS, for example, because it has to run on Google servers.

Freedom is so last-cen. It's all walled gardens now, where the service has all the rights and power and the peons do what they're told. The New York Times has an editorial on this today.

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