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Lacie Linden

Saving the ocean, one baby shark at a time. We need YOUR help.

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Want to help save the oceans without having to leave the comfort of your PC?
 
All you need to do is:
  1.  Meet us in Sansar on June 8, from 12 to 5 PM PT.
  2.  Pick out a free baby shark avatar for yourself.
  3.  Join other baby sharks on a virtual beach, where we'll be picking up trash, creating a trash sculpture, playing games, and having fun! 
 
For every shark that joins the event, we'll donate $5 to EarthEcho. If the trash sculpture gets completed before the event ends, we'll donate an additional $5K - up to $10K in total!
 
Best of all: The Roddenberry Foundation has agreed to match our donation with $5K of their own! 
 
It's a fun, interactive, easy way to make a difference for World Oceans Day.
We can't wait to see you there!

 
(For any questions, feel free to ask on + Join the Sansar Official Discord)
 
WOD_InWorldPoster.thumb.png.8b341e59278e7162570aa90fd88b7d3f.png
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Posted (edited)

sansarpeakjun8-2.png.440cb06a8745bfde2cead820ff502d95.png

Oh, that's what caused the brief spike in usage on June 8th.

Sansar has 0.2% of Second Life users on Sansar's biggest few minutes ever. Up from the usual 0.03%. Yet LL is trying to hire two back-end developers for Sansar, and none for Second Life.

We paying customers of Second Life want more resources put on Second Life. SL performance is down, the developers are overwhelmed, and the users are angry.

Edited by animats
Link to job posting
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In Ebbe's last public interview he said there are 200 people working for LL, 70 of those working on Sansar.

It would be great if at least one or two of those devs could be put on full time feature work in SL.

We might be able to go back to getting quarterly script feature additions like we had up until Dec. 2013.

Since then we only got script features tied to major features: Materials, Experiences, Bento, Animesh, EEP, etc.

Simple script features not tied to major features that tie up a single dev for 1.5 - 2 years could help evolve the platform and could be implemented in far less time.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, animats said:

We paying customers of Second Life want more resources put on Second Life. SL performance is down, the developers are overwhelmed, and the users are angry.

Would you please speak for yourself. I don't need anyone speaking for me. Seriously! I'm not angry and don't think for one moment that I or anyone else knows better how to run Linden Lab than those who do.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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And I bet you the percent of people leaving second life or the percent of new customers going to other places has very little to do with the amount of new features being added to second life compared to people simply wanting new things like Sansar or VR Chat

 

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Posted (edited)

the sour part for me was to read about the donation, don't get me wrong, it's a good thing to fight for...
5 usd per visitor and up to 10k in bonusses ... while in the same week SL subscriptions go up with 30% or more.
Thats together with the pre pay for one more billing cycle a big chunk of money out of the "profit" of raising premiums

There would be more profit at all sides ..LL an the users when the raise would be done in two steps, no pre pay, and no bonusses in Sansar from it. 5 usd per visitor is already quite a big donation .. of course with the current Sansar visitor amounts, not really a big deal, the profit from there will cover it... coughs.....

Edited by Fox Wijaya

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1 hour ago, Gindipple said:

And I bet you the percent of people leaving second life or the percent of new customers going to other places has very little to do with the amount of new features being added to second life compared to people simply wanting new things like Sansar or VR Chat

 

if i understand you well ....you had a look at the charts, the amount of people leaving SL is stable, and even slightly rising with new subscribers. It would be the opposite of your statement, work on it and it will give a reason to grow. ... if you put your statement as thing on sansar it would have closed years ago.

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4 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Simple script features not tied to major features that tie up a single dev for 1.5 - 2 years could help evolve the platform and could be implemented in far less time.

Right. Lucia has a list of little LSL stuff she needs to make some things work. I have a list, too, but I've given up on getting anything implemented. I'm focusing on pushing LL to fix known, acknowledged bugs in the existing features.

1 hour ago, Gindipple said:

And I bet you the percent of people leaving second life or the percent of new customers going to other places has very little to do with the amount of new features being added to second life compared to people simply wanting new things like Sansar or VR Chat

New users coming in from MMOs find SL very sluggish.This is a big problem with growing the user community.

SL is slowing down, and we don't know why. Neither do the developers, from what they tell us. This comes up each week at Server User Group, at Content Creators group, and at Drivers of SL. People with long-running well-tuned estates are complaining that their sims no longer run properly. Something has gone badly wrong and LL can't find it.

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The only thing wrong with Sansar is they haven't taken enough money from SL to hire enough devs to push it forward faster. From a business perspective it makes total sense to build a new and better technology platform than to retro fit an old one. Granted they have to be smart about how gradual they shift people over from SL as it's the bread and butter. And most probably won't shift, they will fall to natural attrition, but this was a must do thing. Sansar has a long way to go yet, but it is poised to be much better than SL, assuming some day they get more on par with the likes of Unity or Unreal and figure out how to allow adult content.

 

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3 hours ago, Gindipple said:

. Granted they have to be smart about how gradual they shift people over from SL as it's the bread and butter.

I think you missed some information and discussions during the years ; Sansar is never meant to replace SL, nor bring the people over to there. It has a different purpose, and a different audience.

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If they came out and told you they were hoping it would replace SL with Sansar that would be the equivalent of showing people your cards in a high stakes poker game

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But Lindens have consistently said that Sansar is not meant to replace SL. That Sansar is meant as an addition to SL and that their hope is to reach a much, much larger audience than the one currently in SL. They have also consistently said for those wanting adult content to go to SL and have consistently said that adult content is not in the works for Sansar. Now they haven't ruled out adult content in Sansar completely but there's been little to no suggestion that it's going to arrive anytime within the foreseeable future. So no, I think you're taking a leap, Gin, but you and I have had this conversation before .... :P 

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On 6/15/2019 at 7:18 AM, Gindipple said:

The only thing wrong with Sansar is they haven't taken enough money from SL to hire enough devs to push it forward faster. From a business perspective it makes total sense to build a new and better technology platform than to retro fit an old one. Granted they have to be smart about how gradual they shift people over from SL as it's the bread and butter. And most probably won't shift, they will fall to natural attrition, but this was a must do thing. Sansar has a long way to go yet, but it is poised to be much better than SL, assuming some day they get more on par with the likes of Unity or Unreal and figure out how to allow adult content.

 

The only thing wrong with Sansar is it provides nothing most people want. People aren't going to move from sl to Sansar. New users aren't flocking to Sansar. Sansar to most people is a joke that just burns through the labs money. 

In ten years SL will likely still be here, Sansar on the other hand will be a memory. 

I know you will disagree so here is the question

Who do you think the user base for Sansar is?

Its not companies they would rather do their own VR experiences where they have full control

Its not SL users they have shown they want little to do with Sansar

Its not professional creators because there is no user base looking to buy their products

It is not gamers because why would you try gaming on clunky Sansar when you can just buy a proper game

 

For Sansar to survive its needs a user base, Even LL cannot articulate who that is. Until that question can be answered and make sense then Sansar is DOA

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

Who do you think the user base for Sansar is?

Its not companies they would rather do their own VR experiences where they have full control

Its not SL users they have shown they want little to do with Sansar

Its not professional creators because there is no user base looking to buy their products

It is not gamers because why would you try gaming on clunky Sansar when you can just buy a proper game

 

For Sansar to survive its needs a user base, Even LL cannot articulate who that is. Until that question can be answered and make sense then Sansar is DOA

My guess is that it will be companies who are willing to trade having full control for the ability to accomplish getting their VR presence at a much cheaper price.
Much the same way as I could hire someone to do my website and pay a pretty penny, but I can join WordPress and have what I need much less expensively, and even create it myself fairly easily.

Edited by Luna Bliss

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22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

My guess is that it will be companies who are willing to trade having full control for the ability to accomplish getting their VR presence at a much cheaper price.
Much the same way as I could hire someone to do my website and pay a pretty penny, but I can join WordPress and have what I need much less expensively, and even create it myself fairly easily.

Ah you mean companies that want to advertise to an average of 11 users....gotcha. I can see now that Sansar has a bright future

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3 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Ah you mean companies that want to advertise to an average of 11 users....gotcha. I can see now that Sansar has a bright future

If you do a little research you will discover that numerous companies are already using VR for all kinds of purposes not related to fun and games, and most likely this will only increase. I think LL is on the right track (well, unless they take too much of my earnings here to pay for this future).  :)

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you do a little research you will discover that numerous companies are already using VR for all kinds of purposes not related to fun and games, and most likely this will only increase. I think LL is on the right track (well, unless they take too much of my earnings here to pay for this future).  :)

Yes they are, however that is mostly internally and not for uses that Sansar would be any good for. Indeed LL's first stated intention was that it would be the wordpress of VR. Something they now have abandoned, then they touted it as a gaming platform till people pointed out it wasn't really good at that either. 

My own company is looking at VR, guess what even though a small company 100 or so strong we are still looking at an in house solution not some jack of all trades but not very good at any of them platform like Sansar.

Now the major graphics engines all support VR well, unity, unreal etc it is easy to hire in people to produce your own. Sansar is nothing but a solution looking for a problem. I am just wait to see how stubborn they are before they bin it

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31 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:
37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you do a little research you will discover that numerous companies are already using VR for all kinds of purposes not related to fun and games, and most likely this will only increase. I think LL is on the right track (well, unless they take too much of my earnings here to pay for this future).  :)

Yes they are, however that is mostly internally and not for uses that Sansar would be any good for. Indeed LL's first stated intention was that it would be the wordpress of VR. Something they now have abandoned, then they touted it as a gaming platform till people pointed out it wasn't really good at that either. 

My own company is looking at VR, guess what even though a small company 100 or so strong we are still looking at an in house solution not some jack of all trades but not very good at any of them platform like Sansar.

Now the major graphics engines all support VR well, unity, unreal etc it is easy to hire in people to produce your own. Sansar is nothing but a solution looking for a problem. I am just wait to see how stubborn they are before they bin it

VR is the future, and in its infancy. We really don't know what markets will open up. It seems wise to, at this stage, experiment with different markets while increasing the tech, as they are doing. I have hope they will find a niche as VR becomes more widespread (the new Oculus Quest seems a game changer in that respect). It feels to me that you want some kind of solidity that just can't exist at this time -- it's too soon to judge Sansar as a failure.

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12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

VR is the future, and in its infancy. We really don't know what markets will open up. It seems wise to, at this stage, experiment with different markets while increasing the tech, as they are doing. I have hope they will find a niche as VR becomes more widespread (the new Oculus Quest seems a game changer in that respect). It feels to me that you want some kind of solidity that just can't exist at this time -- it's too soon to judge Sansar as a failure.

I haven't said VR isnt the future, I like VR I work on VR apps. What I said is Sansar isn't the future

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6 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

I haven't said VR isnt the future, I like VR I work on VR apps. What I said is Sansar isn't the future

Yes, I know you like VR as i do.

What I'm pointing out is, how can you absolutely know Sansar has no future when the future isn't here yet?

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13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, I know you like VR as i do.

What I'm pointing out is, how can you absolutely know Sansar has no future when the future isn't here yet?

Sansar has no future because if it did it would have users, if you build it and no one comes then what you built was a costly failure. I don't think anyone could claim with a straight face Sansar has been a success. Sooner or later the financial losses will force its shutdown

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14 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:
29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What I'm pointing out is, how can you absolutely know Sansar has no future when the future isn't here yet?

Sansar has no future because if it did it would have users, if you build it and no one comes then what you built was a costly failure. I don't think anyone could claim with a straight face Sansar has been a success. Sooner or later the financial losses will force its shutdown

VR adaptation did not increase as quickly as they thought it would -- they have admitted to this.
And so you can't really say they've failed until VR is more widespread AND it's obvious they never found a niche within it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

VR adaptation did not increase as quickly as they thought it would -- they have admitted to this.
And so you can't really say they've failed until VR is more widespread AND it's obvious they never found a niche within it.

There are well over a million headsets out there. VR chat has thousands of active user. Sansar struggles to get 11 concurrent users even after steam release.

I log onto vr chat and there are lots of rooms active which have more users in them that the whole of Sansar manages. They came like I did, they looked, and went meh wtf is this pile of manure

 

In addition now Sansar is open to people playing in pancake mode, careful you don't get knocked over by the rush of people going Sansar just what we have been looking for.

Edited by KanryDrago

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