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Kitten Kaos

"Starter" Homes, more like Retirement Homes, amIright?

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9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

The way I read the post that would be forbidden. You can't direct people away from Bellisseria to make purchases. What he did say is that a merchant who has a Linden Home can give out LMs to the model home in Bellisseria at their store.

Crap. you are right. I seem to inadvertently have overlooked the part where it says that. I see it now upon re-reading.
It says:

Quote

What you may not do is put up signage on the parcel that advertises it, your store, brand, redirect people away from the home for purchases, etc.

That makes it not easy to have 7seas on my parcel. I can hide some of the things, but there's a branded FAQ giver which I think gives valuable info about the game but it can be construed as advertisement.

I did notice though that Patch wrote the post with creators in mind, but aside from the mention of yard sales, there doesn't seem to be a mention of non-creators. So I am still kinda wondering... I am still not going to rez a vendor though, I will not risk it nor will I try to force the issue. But it still makes me wonder.

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The underlying question is and will always be, "Is the person hosting it making money off of it?" With something like 7 Seas you could have the server to fish, but could not have the vendors selling items for L$ (since I understand the owner gets a percentage). If you normally use it just to buy your own bait you could rez it, buy your bait and then remove it... or just go to the nearest place to buy your bait. But you couldn't leave it out for others to buy from or send them to where they would buy their own bait or upgrades. They would have to find that for themselves.

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Abnor Mole said:

The underlying question is and will always be, "Is the person hosting it making money off of it?" With something like 7 Seas you could have the server to fish, but could not have the vendors selling items for L$ (since I understand the owner gets a percentage). If you normally use it just to buy your own bait you could rez it, buy your bait and then remove it... or just go to the nearest place to buy your bait. But you couldn't leave it out for others to buy from or send them to where they would buy their own bait or upgrades. They would have to find that for themselves.

That is very clear, thank you!
This would mean that an MP link should not be met with any kind of objection. I don't care about getting a percentage of any sales anyway, all I care about is of people have access to the items they need to play.

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
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Agreed!

I am so glad OP made this post. I have thought about this a lot. 

Why and where did they ever get "starter" homes from?  

First off I just want a simple home in a nice community for a good price. I bet a lot do. But I would like a little more and when others ask for the little bits extra they are told that "these are starter homes" so no extra paint or prims etc. 

So do they think the sl life cycle is to join, quickly become premium, play with the house a month then .. move to main land , maybe buy a sim?

These shouldn't ever ever be thought a starter homes. 

 

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1 hour ago, Abnor Mole said:

(since I understand the owner gets a percentage)

Or as I like to call it, a discount ;)

 

Thank you Abnor (and Patch in the group chat) for clarifying the systems and the vendors for us! I have no problem grabbing my own bait and then picking it back up into inventory. :)

Too bad a Mole or Linden couldn't have bait vendors out. The cut the vendor owner gets could go towards a charity or a pizza party for you guys.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Louminca said:

Agreed!

I am so glad OP made this post. I have thought about this a lot. 

Why and where did they ever get "starter" homes from?  

First off I just want a simple home in a nice community for a good price. I bet a lot do. But I would like a little more and when others ask for the little bits extra they are told that "these are starter homes" so no extra paint or prims etc. 

So do they think the sl life cycle is to join, quickly become premium, play with the house a month then .. move to main land , maybe buy a sim?

These shouldn't ever ever be thought a starter homes. 

 

My understanding of it, at least as it was explained by Blondin Linden at the time at one of the Zindra/Adult Content Interest Group meetings he used to run  -- I tried to explain to him that, while the meetings were certainly painful to sit through at times,  I nevertheless still thought he'd fully to grasp the idea of BDSM --  was that originally the idea was that a lot of people were put off the idea of taking up premium membership in order to grab some mainland and starting from scratch, so LL would give them a deliberately nerfed starter-home as part of their premium membership, in the expectation that after a few months they'd  gain enough confidence and experience, and become sufficiently frustrated with the restrictions associated with the old Linden Homes, to want to expand their horizons by moving to the mainland or renting on a private island.  

The phrase "gateway drug" was used a couple of times, as I recall.

Anyway, that was Blondin's take on the old Linden Homes, as I recall it from back when he was with LL, several years ago     However, my memory's hardly infallible, and he didn't always seem particularly well-informed about policy -- not sure that was his fault though -- so I wouldn't rely on it.

Edited by Innula Zenovka
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Posted (edited)

"Expand to Horizons"?, I deliberately misunderstand just for comedic effect, well, how'd that work out?

Edited by Kitten Kaos
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

The way I read the post that would be forbidden. You can't direct people away from Bellisseria to make purchases. What he did say is that a merchant who has a Linden Home can give out LMs to the model home in Bellisseria at their store.

that's my reading of it as well

i also think that a notecard on the Linden Home premise directing a visitor to a vendor's store would also not be allowed

pretty much I think most people creating stuff for Linden Homes will add something about it to their profile/picks.  Which I think is fair and useful. I do this often myself when I see stuff anywhere in SL. Inspect an object. Get the creator name. Open their profile and look on there for their inworld store and/or marketplace link

Edited by Mollymews
double nots
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Honestly, when I wander around open houses I'm always checking on creators for stuff that I think looks nice, even if it isn't quite my style, because the creators might have something that IS my style.

I always assumed that this was how most people operate.

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3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

that's my reading of it as well

i also think that a notecard on the Linden Home premise directing a visitor to a vendor's store would also not be allowed

pretty much I think most people creating stuff for Linden Homes will add something about it to their profile/picks.  Which I think is fair and useful. I do this often myself when I see stuff anywhere in SL. Inspect an object. Get the creator name. Open their profile and look on there for their inworld store and/or marketplace link

 

That's my reading of it as well.

I think Patches addendum today was, foremost, a comment on the use of 'show homes' at Bellisseria (a topic which came up earlier). I think she was pretty clear on it: yes, those are allowed, but no actual selling of goods at Bellisseria, or redirecting ppl off the sim, to a store somewhere.

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On 5/30/2019 at 9:41 AM, Kitten Kaos said:

So, as I so often feel about LL,  they have good ideas and are headed in the right direction, but I feel like they misread the motivations of residents pretty often.  Bellisseria is not a jumping off point, it's a long sought destination. I've talked to quite a few Bellisserians about this and a theme has emerged: oldbees (like me) after years are rediscovering what is good about SL, prompted by a newfound sense of community.  The new continent, with it's banning of banlines & beautiful, public congregation spaces is encouraging us to get to know each other & open our homes & hearts and that's what we wanted from SL all along.

Oh there's community in OTHER parts of SL...just that THIS kind of community tended to have a large buy-in.  You've got cute mid-century bungalows and boathouses.  What places does that sound like?  Bay City and the Blake.  And what do those places have in common?  Huge buy in even for a 1024.  We're talking 100000L$  So you've got these new houses just begging to be filled with gacha'd tchotchkes by domestic girly girls (and their partners).  There are a LOT of couples in Bellisseria.  And you've got the boathouses, just waiting for a Bandit460/50/55/60 to be put out front.

About the only thing Bellisseria doesn't have is the more in depth infrastructure of Bay City, the stores, the retro clubs, the airport complex, the mid-century small city through rose colored glasses stuff.  I might have been in Bay City and hanging out with Marianne and vintage friends...if not for the buy in.  I might have had a boathouse like my current one in Sansara with my Bandit slotted underneath in the Blake...if not for the buy in.   I might have ended up in Bellisseria but they upped the tier and dropped the fee for the additional 1024 BEFORE we found out about the new Linden Homes.  (though they're not quite open plan enough for my needs and not quite enough LI)

 

On 5/30/2019 at 10:11 AM, Fushichou Mfume said:

So the tiny 0.004% of rage-quit abandonments tells me that the vast majority of Belli homes are owned by long established accounts (regardless of whether they used a newer alt to stake a claim) who see Belli as a destination. Not a “starter”.

I could be interpreting the numbers wrong—but that’s my considered hunch. 

You're not wrong, Bellisseria is Oldbie heavy, just head to the social hangouts down there.

On 5/30/2019 at 10:13 AM, Raspberry Crystal said:

Topic title made me laugh because this is very accurate from my perspective. I've been looking for somewhere beautiful with a community feel for so long that I began to believe it couldn't exist. Patch in his interview, said that they knew Bellerissia would be popular, I'm still thinking they haven't quite got it themselves yet.

But it DOES exist, but it's either themed (like say Steampunk Caledon) or expensive like Bay City.  I'm not sure they've quite figured out what they've got either.

LL, you just fulfilled the needs of your Gen-X Barbie Domestic Goddess XTREEM customers...and their partners.  If I was you, I'd build off a "Bay City-ish" island off to the side, not directly connected, except maybe by a long over-water road (a la key west with the road built up high enough so boats can go under it) or by boat or small plane.  Put the Bay City style social infrastructure there.  Fairgrounds, a bowling alley, a retro classy club (like the Seraph Club in old Seraph City), a coffee shop, a diner, parks.  They don't even have to be "real businesses", heck put the Bay City folks in charge of it, Call it something like Bella Village think some place like Amity Island in Jaws.  This is the place that can have a halloween bash, or 4th of july fireworks and regatta.  While Bellisserria does have The Squishy Pickle's, pools, small parks and whatnot, it's not really usable because no-rez and the Linden Homes can stay Linden Homes.  Think of "Bella Village" as the "main street" for Bellisseria

On 5/30/2019 at 10:13 AM, Kitten Kaos said:

 But yes the popularity of Bellisseria, esp. with us olds  should be telling them something about how to approach land management elsewhere and I'm not sure they are really hearing us.

They're probably trying to figure out how to approach it, wondering if it's a "Flash in the pan" that the excitement will die down and the groups go inactive and people become silent in their homes and skyboxes above them again.  I think some of the excitement will die down...but...the old Linden homes didn't have resident run groups set up like this, or people opening up their homes as "open houses", or organizing info and setting up a website.  This is a community..it may quiet down, but I think it's here to stay in the same way Bay City has stayed.

 

On 5/30/2019 at 12:07 PM, Female Winslet said:

What’s been in most demand? House boats. That seems to tell LL something about the demand for access to water.

To make the demand even more obvious, we see that Bellisaria and the surrounding area have become crazy busy places for both sailing and flying, much like the Blake Sea. Why? Because the area around Bellissaria is one of only two places in the entire grid that are safe to fly and the only one that lets you check out the land from above.

LL said they wanted to create a space with community. And what are people praising about Bellissaria? Community.

LL is getting a clear message that this is what their customers want. And what they tried to do is working. Seems to me that it would be smart to do more and to roll out what they can from this experience to the rest of mainland. This experience is giving clear indications of how to go about revitalizing and bringing back to life the rest of the mainland. 

Yep, they want zoned pleasant looking neighborhoods with friendly oldbie neighbors, some place they don't have to fuss too much with a build but can just put out decorations, furnishings and maybe a modular add-on or too.  Where they can head a couple of sims over to a pool, or Squishy Pickle and chat with friends, or visit an open-house coffeehouse. They want the Rose-colored-glasses version of mid-century-living.  And a cheaper alternative to the marina/boating life of the Blake.

Though a suggestion for the Houseboaters in Bellisseria, start working on organizing like the Blake boaters.  The land folks have got off to a good start, but you could start doing mini-regattas, or discussions of neat boat addons or other things related to boating.

 

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2 hours ago, CronoCloud Creeggan said:

Gen-X Barbie Domestic Goddess XTREEM 

When I hit my 500 posts, can this be my little title-thingie?

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On 6/9/2019 at 5:08 PM, Beth Macbain said:

When I hit my 500 posts, can this be my little title-thingie?

Yes!  I'll probably use something like "Redheaded"  or "Full of Pixel Vanity"

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On 6/5/2019 at 12:33 AM, Innula Zenovka said:

.....originally the idea was that a lot of people were put off the idea of taking up premium membership in order to grab some mainland and starting from scratch, so LL would give them a deliberately nerfed starter-home as part of their premium membership, in the expectation that after a few months they'd  gain enough confidence and experience, and become sufficiently frustrated with the restrictions associated with the old Linden Homes, to want to expand their horizons by moving to the mainland or renting on a private island.  

The phrase "gateway drug" was used a couple of times, as I recall.

 

I love the naming "deliberately nerfed starter-home". 😊

And I also think LL still want us over to mainland, or renting from the land barons. LL will loose a lot of land barons, if 30 000 premium accounts live in Linden Homes. That's a lot of tier.

Maybe they made the new LH better than they thought. The wall colors is already solved by inner shells. We expand the living rooms, turning outdoor space to outdoor living rooms on covered terraces.

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LOL , I don't they they expected all the creativity people bring to their Linden Homes, but I think they are happy for it. They said they were pivoting somewhat to relying more on premium memberships for their income. Nicer homes are a good way of giving more value to that.  Plenty of people will not want to be constrained full time to a small home & 350LI tho, there will be a market for estates- esp. ones with a great theme/ water access, etc

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On 6/9/2019 at 10:00 PM, CronoCloud Creeggan said:

Oh there's community in OTHER parts of SL...just that THIS kind of community tended to have a large buy-in.  You've got cute mid-century bungalows and boathouses.  What places does that sound like?  Bay City and the Blake.  And what do those places have in common?  Huge buy in even for a 1024.  We're talking 100000L$

.......If I was you, I'd build off a "Bay City-ish" island off to the side, not directly connected, except maybe by a long over-water road (a la key west with the road built up high enough so boats can go under it) or by boat or small plane.  Put the Bay City style social infrastructure there.  Fairgrounds, a bowling alley, a retro classy club (like the Seraph Club in old Seraph City), a coffee shop, a diner, parks.  They don't even have to be "real businesses", heck put the Bay City folks in charge of it, Call it something like Bella Village think some place like Amity Island in Jaws.  This is the place that can have a halloween bash, or 4th of july fireworks and regatta.  While Bellisserria does have The Squishy Pickle's, pools, small parks and whatnot, it's not really usable because no-rez and the Linden Homes can stay Linden Homes.  Think of "Bella Village" as the "main street" for Bellisseria

They're probably trying to figure out how to approach it, wondering if it's a "Flash in the pan" that the excitement will die down and the groups go inactive and people become silent in their homes and skyboxes above them again.  I think some of the excitement will die down...but...the old Linden homes didn't have resident run groups set up like this, or people opening up their homes as "open houses", or organizing info and setting up a website.  This is a community..it may quiet down, but I think it's here to stay in the same way Bay City has stayed.

..............Yep, they want zoned pleasant looking neighborhoods with friendly oldbie neighbors, some place they don't have to fuss too much with a build but can just put out decorations, furnishings and maybe a modular add-on or too.  Where they can head a couple of sims over to a pool, or Squishy Pickle and chat with friends, or visit an open-house coffeehouse. They want the Rose-colored-glasses version of mid-century-living.  And a cheaper alternative to the marina/boating life of the Blake....

 

I agree to every word, I just cut to the parts I especially love. Yes, yes, this is my dream community, like Bay City and Blake Sea, but in my budget.

I think the new LH is a bit hyped up, since this is new and so sought after. Some will return to places with a comfortable LI that allow them to put out more LI heavy furniture and the latest home from one of the many talented builders. I am sure some will have a nice big chunk of land elsewhere, and use Bellisseria as a "vacation home". I think I have read people telling they do this now, on the Forum already.

 

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On 5/31/2019 at 6:30 AM, Patch Linden said:

Oooooo!    Retirement homes.... and communities!!!

/me adds it to the list

I'm going to call it "Sunny Acres"

@Patch Linden embraces retirement resort living at The Queen's Head Public House... making grey hair the hot new Sexy!

feff79314e03ccc04b9b53e0c03e83b9.gif

Feeling the pain of North & Bebe's grass being trampled by all the 'whippersnappers' dancing and carrying on till all hours and trying not to fret that we may miss the Early Bird Special Seniors' Discount at the Sunny Acres Buffet!  

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On 6/4/2019 at 2:47 PM, Blush Bravin said:

I'm very intrigued by the "yard sale" comment in his post. Can't wait to see what that entails.

I had asked about yard sales. So, without businesses, the new continent is what is called in RL a “bedroom community”!

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