A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

2 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Yeah but the reason companies offer discounts on longer engagement is because it's more cash upfront for them and also because it makes their pocketbook a lot more predictable.

Indeed, and it makes perfect business sense to do so - but the inability to get into that stable situation on the part of a customer with limited resources can't be dismissed with "That's called planning" because the planning may be perfectly doable but the entry barrier insurmountable.

[RoxyCyn]

I think the new tier pricing changes made by Linden Labs is a good idea and would hopefully stimulate more growth in SL for those wanting to get into a full region.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by RoxyCyn

[Polymath Snuggler]

The biggest problem with this current situation is that for most people with fixed income, there's no way for them to take advantage of the discounted rate at the moment because 72$ USD on a 1 month notice is simply an impossibility, so they're going to lose out on that 37$ discount come their next billing cycle.  ( That's what they're upset about )

The only reason I was able to so easily pay it is I've been floating an annual premium fee on my account out of sheer paranoia, which wound up being a good forward planning thing.

So ~ yes the 'planning' argument holds up... sort of ~ but not really. 

It's a fact of modern life that people who live very near or below the poverty line actually have a higher cost of living than people who are not.

Bank fees due to low balance amounts / overdrafts, loans, loan interest, and surcharges for the smallest of things that others ordinarily expect to get for free are facts of life.  I can go on for hours about socioeconomic inequality.... But getting upset at LL for being a part of this ecosystem is a tad irrational I think.  Legally SL isn't an essential service, though, as I argued earlier in this thread, to many of the residents I'm sure it very much is one.  The thing I have a more difficult time arguing that Premium in SL is so essential to need an extra accommodation, especially with the reversion of the basic group limitations.

Edited June 4, 2019 by polysail

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

@Linden Lab @Grumpity Linden

i see something strange on my accountpage...  i am on quarterly billing now, but will upp to yearly on june 18 ( is still in the old payment levels)
however..... here the screenshots what i get now :

Possibly this is a bug/glitch in the system, not using the actual info or......if this is the case i think you should mention that it's not possible to upgrade in the grace period to extend longer.

 

My bet is that if you simply shift to annual right now then on June 18th it will bill you $72 USD and do a normal annual extension of your membership to a renewal date to Jun 18, 2020.  You can then go back to that page on June 19th and I'm betting you'll see a prepay option, but at that time it will show an extension out to June 18, 2021. 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, Vick Forcella said:

So we have till June 24th to lock in the correct premium fee.

However {coming is)" the introduction of an all-new membership level for those who want to get the absolute most out of their Second Life".

This gives the risk of locking in the premium fee and next comes another option and we have to pay again?

 

6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Yeah. I just re-upped my Premium accounts on the assumption that it would benefit any account even if it upgrades to whatever the new "super Premium" plan turns out to be. That's only an assumption, but one that seems almost as safe as assuming we'll get no details about the new plan until long after June 24th when the current-rate reenlistment period closes.

So far, the whole "super Premium" plan has been shrouded in mystery and the vague language of a Marketing department that wants to keep all its options open. (And every time I try to ask about the sole feature I actually want, grid-scope Experiences, it's as if the technical and business sides of the Lab work for different companies on different continents planets.)

 

Grumpity actually confirmed, a few pages back, that when they introduce the new Premium level, your current membership will be able to do an upgrade with a price based on when your current membership is due to expire - i.e. You will get a discount on the upgrade that will be basically pro-rated based on your regular Premium renewal date.

 

My risk decision related to the  new super Premium was that I currently has a second Premium account for donating tier to my land group.  If the new super Premium increases the tier allotment at a price that seems reasonable, then I won't need the extra land account.  So I'm taking a chance and not pre-paying that account.  If the new super Premium doesn't increase tier or does so at a price I don't want to pay (maybe because of other things also added to it), then the land alt will have lost out on the lower fee option, but I'll live with that.

Edited June 4, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

My risk decision related to the  new super Premium was that I currently has a second Premium account for donating tier to my land group.  If the new super Premium increases the tier allotment at a price that seems reasonable, then I won't need the extra land account.  So I'm taking a chance and not pre-paying that account.  If the new super Premium doesn't increase tier or does so at a price I don't want to pay (maybe because of other things also added to it), then the land alt will have lost out on the lower fee option, but I'll live with that.

This is precisely the same scenario for me, almost word for word. The alt comes up in September so I figure I'm going to let that one lapse. Bu extending my main (which is due in February. 2020) I am thinking an upgrade to the new SuperP will be a minimal cost considering the pro-rated credit of existing subscription... *As long as* the new perks are worth the cost (a.k.a.: perceived Return On Investment) LOL

[Selene Gregoire]

19 hours ago, T0ranny Artful said:

amen froukje ! i can not agree more with you, they dont do anything about the copybot stuff or the empty boxes, here is an idea for LL, you already have designers that create mesh and have to agree with some rules and answer questions the first time they upload mesh, Now what if you adjust the MP like this : any designer that wants to upload something has to verify they are the designer ? and ofcourse another option for gacha... just a little idea

 

11 hours ago, Callie Cline said:

my understanding is she said "the" designer" (on the marketplace) of said product. not a new designer.  the context is someone uploading an empty box with an established designers logo on it. so she's asking for verification of identity, not if one can design or not. (which is subjective anyway) hope that clarifies. 

The wording was "any designer", not "the designer". Do any creators really want to have to verify every single time they upload? I seriously doubt it. That's doubling the workload for both the creators and LL. Be ready for premium pricing to go sky high to cover that cost for LL.

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Yeah but the reason companies offer discounts on longer engagement is because it's more cash upfront for them and also because it makes their pocketbook a lot more predictable.

But only in the short term. Rarely does any company today think in the long term. It's all about the quarter, not the annual.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

This is precisely the same scenario for me, almost word for word. The alt comes up in September so I figure I'm going to let that one lapse. Bu extending my main (which is due in February. 2020) I am thinking an upgrade to the new SuperP will be a minimal cost considering the pro-rated credit of existing subscription... *As long as* the new perks are worth the cost (a.k.a.: perceived Return On Investment) LOL

My current land alt renews mid-July -- and we might not know enough by then.  However, I have another Premium that renews Jan next year, that I was going to downgrade to Basic (because I have downsized land).  Since that one has a later renewal date, I swapped that one to be the land alt and I'll do the downgrade on the one that is renewing next month.  That then gives me until next Jan before the renewal of the land alt will be due and we should definitely know the details of the new Premium stuff by then.

[Female Winslet]

The SL Newser published an editorial today that reflects my main concern about the premium rate hike. Basically, the concern, which the newser put better than me, is "Why raise prices if the number of subscriptions, and therefore income, is going up anyway?"

http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2019/06/commentary-linden-labs-surprise-price.html

 

 

[Alyona Su]

2 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

My current land alt renews mid-July -- and we might not know enough by then.  However, I have another Premium that renews Jan next year, that I was going to downgrade to Basic (because I have downsized land).  Since that one has a later renewal date, I swapped that one to be the land alt and I'll do the downgrade on the one that is renewing next month.  That then gives me until next Jan before the renewal of the land alt will be due and we should definitely know the details of the new Premium stuff by then.

Great minds think alike!  

[Jessicatje Artful]

On 6/4/2019 at 1:19 AM, Selene Gregoire said:

How are new designers going to be able to verify if they haven't "designed" anything yet? Are you going to make them submit examples of their work? Who is going to take time out of their busy work schedule to be judge, jury and executioner of those decisions? Sounds like a lot of extra unnecessary hoops to jump through just be able to upload a snapshot or texture.

verify you are a designer, there should be a way for this because that scam has to stop

[Selene Gregoire]

5 hours ago, T0ranny Artful said:

verify you are a designer, there should be a way for this because that scam has to stop

You didn't answer my question.

How? How do you stop it? What are your ideas on what will work?

Or is this your way of saying you don't have a clue any more than LL does? They haven't been able to put a stop to it in 16 years, what makes you think they can now?

Here's a hint: they can't.

[Ati Thei]

Please explain why Sansar processing fee is 1.5% and why you are not planning to raise it up? Suddenly the "regulatory climate" is not a problem. It's time to milk the 100 Sansar users and put the burden on them to make back "your" investment.

And if your reason to reduce groups was the back-end strain, why didn't you first try to optimize your code? Implement new tech, protocols, etc? But no, first thing is to cut off basic stuff .

Sure it's not easy but it's a mandatory.

It's laughable to say "We’re making lasting investments into SL in infrastructure, features, and content" when you take away the SL's staff to work a dead project. And lets not mention fitted mesh implementation from few years ago....

 

[Balford Coberts]

On 5/30/2019 at 1:54 AM, Grumpity Linden said:

Yes.  We are, in the background sekritly planning for the end of SL in general

I'll admit I don't usually post here, so maybe that line shouldn't bother me, but it does.  I've been with SL for a while, longer than I thought I would, which means that likely upper management above you is just as old as I am.  Perhaps that's what you meant by that, and I'm going to hope that's the situation.  Happily my membership renewed before you raised your prices, with any real luck by the time it comes up next year LL will have decided this wasn't the smartest thing they ever did and reduce rates to normal.  I'm enjoying having my own little sandbox for once.  As to the end though, 2 main possibilities come to mind, 1 LL just up and pulls the plug one morning and no 1 can log in, or 2 Sansar, Sinespace, Utherverse, or something similar takes over SL, but leaves all our accounts intact.  I'm hoping if it comes to an end it's the 2nd one.

[Lindal Kidd]

Balford, @Grumpity Linden was JOKING.

LL has said, many times, that SL will be around for many years (at least as long as it's profitable, of course.)

Of more immediate interest to you, especially if your membership just renewed...Until June 24, you can pay for up to an additional year of Premium membership at the old rates ($72 per year).  So you would get your current year (the one you just paid for) and ANOTHER year, before the higher prices affect you.

[Qie Niangao]

21 minutes ago, Balford Coberts said:

... or 2 Sansar, Sinespace, Utherverse, or something similar takes over SL...

Lol, and Lindal thought Grumpity was joking!

[adriannesuz McMinnar]

On 5/31/2019 at 8:50 AM, Fyrebird Courier said:

would like to see Lindens find a way to accept $$ ...can someone western union, send in a check, go to a 7eleven and buy a card (like other games)...SOME way.  Honestly, if you come up with a way like that, you will see more.  If it were the prepaid game card, even if the rate were semi-horrendous (for example.  right now, it is about $4/1000L.  if it were the equivalent of $6/1000L, there would still be people buying it, or asking for it for christmas/etc).

I actually like the idea of a gift card with Ls.  On the one hand it would make it easier for some to purchase Lindens and on the other, seeing it up there on the supermarket display with all the other gift cards would be its own form of advertising.  A lot of people might be curious to try if there were a snappy slogan or image on the card.

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, adriannesuz McMinnar said:

I actually like the idea of a gift card with Ls.  On the one hand it would make it easier for some to purchase Lindens and on the other, seeing it up there on the supermarket display with all the other gift cards would be its own form of advertising.  A lot of people might be curious to try if there were a snappy slogan or image on the card.

I like the idea. There's only one problem. They'd be lost among the "competition".

[Coffee Pancake]

21 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I like the idea. There's only one problem. They'd be lost among the "competition".

Which is a million times better than being none existent.

Although ... those gift cards are a primary target for phone scammers, and unlike play store cards, Linden cards wouldn't need to be flipped on eBay to convert them to actual cash.

(I wish I was making this up ---- I am calling you now Ma'am from the IRS, we have found trouble with your taxes Ma'am and the police are coming to arrest you. You must go out and buy $$$$$$ play store cards and then give the numbers to me so, yes Ma'am, play store cards are from the IRS to pay your taxes)

[Beth Macbain]

Store gift cards are nice... but if someone gave me a gift card I could exchange for lindens and spend in any store I want??

Oh, yes, please!!

[Cheshyr Pontchartrain]

On 5/31/2019 at 4:42 AM, Grumpity Linden said:

When you buy L$, you're buying them on the LindeX, from another resident.  Linden Lab takes $1.49 fee, regardless of how much you spend. 

This is incorrect, Grumpity. You take closer to 3.5% from all transactions, as shown in all my recent sales. For example, I sold L$29,412 and Linden Lab took $4.09 in fees, plus another 2.5% to transfer that money to PayPal. With the new changes, it amounts to 8.5% overhead for every inworld sale, and up to 13% for the Marketplace. I can't stay in business that way.

[Polymath Snuggler]

25 minutes ago, Cheshyr Pontchartrain said:

This is incorrect, Grumpity. You take closer to 3.5% from all transactions, as shown in all my recent sales. For example, I sold L$29,412 and Linden Lab took $4.09 in fees, plus another 2.5% to transfer that money to PayPal. With the new changes, it amounts to 8.5% overhead for every inworld sale, and up to 13% for the Marketplace. I can't stay in business that way.

Raise your prices 2.5% then?  

Your 1600 price point objects won't suddenly stop selling if you raise them to 1640.  People aren't going to see the 40L$ and go "oh dear no, I can't afford that"~  the 1600 ~ that I could pay.. the 40L$  ~ can't do that !  Passing the cost on to the consumer isn't ideal.  But if you really "can't stay in business" any other way.  Then that's the clear answer.

[Coffee Pancake]

1640 is also a better visual price than 1600 .. 

[Drayke Newall]

I haven't read all 52 pages so apologies if some of this has already been mentioned. Just read the change news. Firstly I used to be a premium member however stopped because quite simply, it wasn't worth it in the long run. Any savings made by using mainland with premium is met with non uniform parcels, lag, ugly builds next door and even owners of parcels not online since 2004. If this is Lab's solution to making people come back or choose premium then I don't know what to say...

Quote

Land prices:  Full estates get ~$20/mo reduction in price. For the first time we are also reducing GF/BD region pricing.  This is not a frivolous gift to the 1%. This has real and proven effects on the rents many more pay. 

Great, take from the poor and give to the rich. If you think by increasing the process credit - this $20 saving is going to be passed onto the renters, you are dreaming. Additionally, even if it is, out of the hundred + dollars per month for a sim it is nothing. You herald "the cloud" Amazon servers are the saving grace, will help with lag, reduce fees etc.... still waiting.

Quote

We looked. We hadn’t raised premium prices in the history of premium prices in SL. Crazy! A lot of value has been added to premium over the last few years (new Linden Homes, double tier, reduced mainland prices, premium access, more offline IMs, more transaction history, more groups, more animesh, experiences, and yet more to come) and we are raising prices to reflect that. 

Might not have raised them but if you think you have added value once again your dreaming.

• New Linden Homes? Great, took you over 10 years despite people asking for it well before and now that they are here its going to take 2 more years just to transfer all current premium users over. Not to mention new premium members get what - old linden homes?
• Double Tier? you mean on mainland, the slums (now I'm going to get hounded for that) of SL where odd shaped parcels, parcels with holes in them, lag heaven, ugly builds and where users who haven't been on since they died or left still have land...? No thanks, not a benefit. Reduced mainland prices fit into this as well, not to mention, oh hey want a parcel near the sea? Pay me $4000 USD and you can have it. I'm sorry where's this reduced mainland price?
• Premium access - yeah... those sandboxes really do have an impact on the SLcreation, don't they. No one is ever on those sandboxes as there are a gazillion user ones and the beta grid. As for the gifts, some freebies on the marketplace are 10x better than the gifts. How about, you know, asking creators for help with the gifts, gives you a good gift and gives the store/creator much needed advertisement for free "Here's your monthly gift brought to you by John Smiths Stiff Hair Mesh Store".
• More offline IM's - don't even understand how this is a bonus, just negatively impacts on store advertising etc.
• More transaction history - This is seriously a bonus for premium? *shakes head* Such Value!
• More groups for premium? So much for that "groups are such a drain on the servers", but hey pay us more and we will give you more groups to troll & lag the basic users
• More animesh - Thanks, now of those only 500 odd avatar attachments that are animesh I can have 2!
• Experiences? The ones only on mainland and no one else can use? Gotcha  

Quote

We’re making lasting investments into SL in infrastructure, features, and content.  While we set aside some special morsels only for premium members, the work we are doing benefits everyone - region crossings, attachment reliability, marketplace improvements, inventory stability, land auctions - are just a few examples.  No one project will please all of our residents, but we make an effort to address the needs of all communities in turn. We can’t get everything done immediately, but we’re focused and determined to keep SL successful and evolving. It’s a unique and thriving world we work hard to support.

SLB15 - anyone remember that post, you know the one I mean... "Hi second life users its been 15 years here's what we have planned: 90% still waiting for it. I'll believe it when I see it. I know its hard, all that code, the network blah, blah, blah, but there is only so much time people can wait for empty promises to be fulfilled.

• Region crossings: Hah! - You mean that problem that has plagued SL since year dot and still isn't fixed despite "were fixing it - promise, here's a new sandbox for compensation"
• Attachment reliability: once again how so? - its not like that's been promised before One day my avatar will just fully rez and not rez as an exploded rigged mesh monster upon sim hopping.
• Market place improvements: Great! Im looking forward for that new category this year- what was it last year - oh that's right, all hail the new gatcha category. How about some actual improvements like search functions for phrases or exclusions i.e. -gatcha (doesn't show any gatcha keyword items).
• Land Auctions: Wow - that's still a thing? Here's an idea how about just use the one you already have and don't use. If you think user auctions are going to end well and not be a linden grab for those beach front mainland properties you have another thing coming.

I am in no way against improvements or changes in premium but, I just get the feeling your going the wrong way about it. For example you've stated now there will be a super duper premium … um if that's the case why not just keep current premium the same price and have the super duper premium the higher?

Why not add meaningful and worthwhile premium features that will see people come back, re-sub, spend more? I've said it before, always to deaf ears, why not give premium accounts the ability to purchase a homestead parcel without the need of having a full region? Why this isn't a thing yet I still don't know. It adds huge value to premium, allows more income from land purchase's to labs, helps SL users who want to keep running sims that cant afford full sims or don't need full sims.

Almost all improvements over the years and promised to come seem to just be re-hashes of existing features with no outside the box thinking.

When a basic user buying lindens can get more out of SL than a premium member in SL you should know your doing something wrong. Until this is fixed SL will always be reliant on tier.

Sorry for the long cynical post, however these changes I just cant see benefitting anyone.