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Grumpity Linden

A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

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13 minutes ago, MLALRS7044 said:

Good news everyone: Linden Lab just announced they are not reducing the number of group slots for regular/basic/non-premium members. Check this information out.

 

That wasn't "just"  that was hours ago

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4 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

That wasn't "just"  that was hours ago

23 hours, to be exact. lol

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Wow @ this thread! :o Not more than three weeks ago I made a suggestion, which was nuked in milliseconds and I got a 24hr ban! All for suggesting an offline install, specifically for creators to make-> dance movies, (was my suggestion), but could be used to create anything. A deluxe creators kit with a top notch animation tool and maybe other stuff to enhance usability OFFLINE.

I have made some little movies in the past. They are awesome fun, look incredible and are a brilliant showcase for what SL can do. I was shocked at my 24hr ban :( I, like many others, have "subscriptions" to pro level software for creating things in RL. Hence to me, it is entirely logical to have an offline "creators" version of SL, priced quite reasonably - unlike "other" companies, who's subscription prices are more like highway robbery.

The above would give an additional income stream rather than have to fiddle about with prices and things that people are used to. 

Benefits to LL. Subscription income for LL. Movie mania! Peoples movies all over the web showcasing what can be done with SL. Awesome cartoon strip stories - like Charolette Caxton used to make. Custom animations & dances - used in both of the above. 

SL's time WILL come again. Because its the only software that can do what it does, but there is a need to showcase the "best of". A need to shine a spotlight on anything other than questionable stuffs that may limit the user-base or turn away newcomers/new creators.

Price of Deluxe SL offline Creators subscription? I dont know, so long as its reasonable. Maybe an incentive for a reduced sub if your "showcase" movie/cartoon/anims attract 100,000 likes/views on platform blah/blah/blah.

The whole point being promotion of SL to a wider audience/attract more users.

I hope I don't get a ban for this suggestion this time ^^ 

 

 

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"Offline install" is called ripping content from SL.  That's a bannable offense.

On the other hand ~ maybe you got banned for posting off-topic nonsensical stuff in unrelated threads...

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6 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Here is what I am wondering...

Let's say we have Suzy Avatar, who is a Basic member.

Suzy decides to go Premium, and pays $72 for a year, sometime between now and June 3.

Sometime between June 4 and June 23, Suzy pre-pays for a second year of Premium, at the old rate of $72.

Is this possible?  Can someone who decides to go Premium right now actually get two years at the old rate?  That'd be a pretty cool deal.

just going off what has been posted and said by Linden. The new rate of $US99 begins on 24 June. So i think we could upgrade a basic account as late as 23 June for $US72. Then prepay for another year. So our next due date would be 23 June 2021

I hope I have understood this right, as after I prepay my main $US72, and if I can find the money (another $US144) I am hoping to be able to do this with my alt account, to get more tier and stipend for the price I am paying now. If I do this then I won't leave it to the last day tho, probably around the 20th to leave time if the website borks or payment issue or whichever

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20 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I'm wondering what happens when "Super Premium" or whatever it's going to be called come out, are we about to pay to keep our membership rates static and then be faced with an upgrade option in a couple of months?

How will that all work out in the wash, are we just setting ourselves up for a dramatic step up in rates 18 months down the line.

They said that we would be able to use any balance remaining on our Premium memberships toward upgrading to the new level.

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35 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

They said that we would be able to use any balance remaining on our Premium memberships toward upgrading to the new level.

Wow I really missed that. Can you point us to the source of "they said" LOL.   Thanks. 

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12 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Wow I really missed that. Can you point us to the source of "they said" LOL.   Thanks. 

Grumpity Linden said it, I believe earlier in this very thread. You can probably search her name and find the post.

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3 hours ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Wow @ this thread! :o Not more than three weeks ago I made a suggestion, which was nuked in milliseconds and I got a 24hr ban! All for suggesting an offline install, specifically for creators to make-> dance movies, (was my suggestion), but could be used to create anything. A deluxe creators kit with a top notch animation tool and maybe other stuff to enhance usability OFFLINE.

I have made some little movies in the past. They are awesome fun, look incredible and are a brilliant showcase for what SL can do. I was shocked at my 24hr ban :( I, like many others, have "subscriptions" to pro level software for creating things in RL. Hence to me, it is entirely logical to have an offline "creators" version of SL, priced quite reasonably - unlike "other" companies, who's subscription prices are more like highway robbery.

The above would give an additional income stream rather than have to fiddle about with prices and things that people are used to. 

Benefits to LL. Subscription income for LL. Movie mania! Peoples movies all over the web showcasing what can be done with SL. Awesome cartoon strip stories - like Charolette Caxton used to make. Custom animations & dances - used in both of the above. 

SL's time WILL come again. Because its the only software that can do what it does, but there is a need to showcase the "best of". A need to shine a spotlight on anything other than questionable stuffs that may limit the user-base or turn away newcomers/new creators.

Price of Deluxe SL offline Creators subscription? I dont know, so long as its reasonable. Maybe an incentive for a reduced sub if your "showcase" movie/cartoon/anims attract 100,000 likes/views on platform blah/blah/blah.

The whole point being promotion of SL to a wider audience/attract more users.

I hope I don't get a ban for this suggestion this time ^^ 

 

 

Your idea got rejected?. You are new to suggesting ideas to LL aren’t you. You should visit the Jira sometime it’s a graveyard of broken dreams 😅

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51 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

They said that we would be able to use any balance remaining on our Premium memberships toward upgrading to the new level.

What if...the price increase is one step toward a further increase to accommodate the new premium subscription. 1 year coming to you at the low low price of $119.99. Or maybe I’m just fuelling the fires of conspiracy, who knows

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On 5/31/2019 at 3:04 AM, Grumpity Linden said:

There will be a new and shiny premium level, which you would be able to upgrade to from your old yet still pretty awesome premium level.  The specifics of how upgrades (and downgrades) will work are going to be announced at a later date, but the general idea is - you will get credit for the "old" premium towards the new shiny.  

Here it is again, for those who missed it the first time. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Grumpity Linden said it, I believe earlier in this very thread. You can probably search her name and find the post.

Found it, on Page 26....

"...There will be a new and shiny premium level, which you would be able to upgrade to from your old yet still pretty awesome premium level.  The specifics of how upgrades (and downgrades) will work are going to be announced at a later date, but the general idea is - you will get credit for the "old" premium towards the new shiny.   "

EDIT:  Dang it, Sylvia!  You are too bloomin' fast.

Edited by Lindal Kidd
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3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

shiny premium

It had better be named this.

Best product name ever.

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Posted (edited)

No, it must be the "Super Excalibur Premium Account of Awesomeness"!!!

So I can keep up with Ceka Cianci.

Edited by Lindal Kidd
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1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Here it is again, for those who missed it the first time. 

Ahh there it is akin to '...later in the year' 

lol

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9 hours ago, Jo Yardley said:

perhaps the option to start a chat and/or send messages/notes to only one role in stead of to everyone in a group,

That Functionality already exists with Calling Cards.  Set up folders of your Roles, put the calling cards of the people with those Roles in those folders.  Right click the folder and select "start conference chat"

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18 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

No it's called shutting up the loudest voices by giving them back something that doesn't cost anything. Cashout fees are still doubling and premiums are still gonna cost more.

Hoping they come back to us with a new decision on cash out fees. there's a good reason the lower ones have worked. my fear is more amazing creators leaving and giving residents less amazing stuff to buy. in  a way creators are working for LL, making experiences and products they don't have to pay a staff to make. it's a great biz model really. 

encouraged by them listening to the voices about the groups and adjusting that. hoping they do the same with doubling the cash out rate ti's a HUGE jump with not even a 30 day notice. that's harsh. 

still waiting! :) (and reporting back inworld to creators busy making stuff to make deadlines.) 

c;mon LL don't disappoint!

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6 hours ago, Maryanne Solo said:

I have made some little movies in the past. They are awesome fun, look incredible and are a brilliant showcase for what SL can do. I was shocked at my 24hr ban :( I, like many others, have "subscriptions" to pro level software for creating things in RL. Hence to me, it is entirely logical to have an offline "creators" version of SL, priced quite reasonably - unlike "other" companies, who's subscription prices are more like highway robbery.

Not my area of expertise, but isn't this known in SL as the beta grid?

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On 5/31/2019 at 8:21 PM, polysail said:

LL has to make money somehow.  The business model for SL needs to evolve as people aren't really interested in owning land all that much, but constantly shop.  It's been 15 years, I'd say some updates are needed.  I'm not pleased about shouldering more of the 'keep the lights on' bill, but servers don't run for free.  It's a bit of a squeeze, but really, if it's THAT much of a problem, like any other business out there you can just raise your prices 9% and offset it to the customer.  It's not great.  But that's how economies work.  At least as a business, you have that option.

yes, that's true however we've not raised out prices ever. in over 8 years. we're mindful of listening to our customers and know it's tight for them. also, moving stuff to the cloud has actually lowered server costs (from what i have been told, if that's true) 

the higher rates are (from what i've heard) something they've wanted to do because other 3d sites that sell content make 30% of what people sell and they feel they were too low. (if that's true from the articles and interviews i've read) 

however, that is not a good reason, just because you can doesn't mean one should. especially when they are not apples to apples. i can understand feeling like "wow we could make more" and being tempted, but there seems to be a big disconnect from people who are creators or at least that's the feeling and they are customers as well. 

also, bitter pills are much easier to swallow with better communication and not an annoucement with a short window. when it went up from 25 dollars max to 250, we had about 4 or 5 months to adjust budgets, etc. this was a bigger increase with little warning. one wonders why it wasn't given with more regard to the impact it would have. especially since they said it was a bitter pill. 

anyway, we'll see what they say, and being mindful of how you raise prices (so drastically) and not communicate with the ones it will effect doesn't promote a good feeling. i just really love SL and think it's an untapped place in the potential it could have, and just think that there are so many ways to increase revenues besides this way. it's basically doubling their revenue in a month from those who work here. that's a LOT. with us not getting anything in return (at least not said in the way it was communicated) so it seems greedy and not a fair way to do business. and i hope they will consider this and not take it as people whining.  

thanks for your comment! and yes, we can raise our prices, our business model has been delivering more than we promise and increasing value without hiking prices. 

take care

i think this will be my last post til we hear back! :) 

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On 5/30/2019 at 4:28 AM, Grumpity Linden said:
  • ... Land prices:  Full estates get ~$20/mo reduction in price. For the first time we are also reducing GF/BD region pricing.  This is not a frivolous gift to the 1%. This has real and proven effects on the rents many more pay....

What about Homestead pricing?  I can now add a homestead to my full region and be paying about the same as I was paying in 2015.

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14 hours ago, Erwin Solo said:

 

 

Thank you very much for pointing that out.  

I might have a extra large cast iron frying pan that Grumpity can use to speed up the last name thing! :D

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12 hours ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

We need a very basic free account for new members who are trying out SL. These accounts could have a lower number of groups, like 20, and no stored offline IMs (They could still have them sent to email.), perhaps a limit of 12,000 or so for inventory, and a VERY CAREFULLY SELECTED simplified feature set. ).

and how many people do you think this idea will drive out? There are a lot of us out there that absolutely do contribute to the LL bottom line  not to mention the bottom line of many creators that simply have no use for any of the "perks" that premium offers. Try coercion like that to make me go premium and I will walk as I regard premium as very much a downgrade and worse for me.

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3 hours ago, Callie Cline said:

Hoping they come back to us with a new decision on cash out fees

really hope so too, but I'm not optimistic. They'd have to find an alternate source for the roughly $ 1.5 million that this fee increase represents. (2.5% of $60 mill.)

Currently, they don't have many options except Marketplace and Premium subscriptions -- unless they get creative...

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So, we've heard a lot in this thread from merchants and creators, and they have very valid points. Speaking as somebody who was an active creator and seller and who hopes to be again in the near future I can really sympathize. However, that's not why I'm posting. A group that contributes quite a bit to the "second life experience" has been a bit under-represented in this discussion. I'm talking about performers.

I am a live musician. It may appear that our costs are low compared to those of creating and marketing content but compared to our income that's not the case. Items on the marketplace can sell 24/7, If I'm not online, on stage and performing, I'm not earning any $L at all. Preparing a one hour set (which I can hopefully then use at several venues) implies a couple of hours of rehearsal before I ever fire up the stream. I pay for my streaming service inworld but all my other costs are RL - fresh strings, ordinary wear on my gear etc. Other than transportation my costs to play a SL set are identical to those of playing the same set in RL.The income is a fraction. This is not because venue owners are stingy, it's that they simply cannot afford to pay close to what I'd charge in RL. The vast majority of SL venues operate really close to the wire - just like their RL counterparts. Many can only afford to have performers play for tips, those that can afford to pay can usually only offer around 1000 per hour. Yes, there are places that can offer more, but they are a tiny minority and competition to get slots there is fierce, particularly if your musical genre is itself a minority interest. Currently, my SL existence is self-sustaining "plus a little bit" - but in all honesty in an hour playing on a street corner I can make close to three times what I'd realize from that same hour in SL. The comparison with an hour at even the seediest RL venue doesn't even exist, it's so far out. When your margins are that small even a relatively modest increase in how much LL siphon off from your income becomes truly significant.

I'm not claiming that these increases will put me in the RL poorhouse. I make almost all my RL income in RL, but might they cause my SL income to no longer cover my expenses as a SL performer? Yes, they might. And this is where things get problematic, because while I do wish to continue to be a part of this community and to continue contributing to it, any musician will tell you that for the most part it's not a "financially secure lifestyle" - even the tiny profit from playing in SL helps. But if it were to turn into an equally tiny loss, I guarantee that I'd not be alone in questioning whether to continue.

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the mainland is inferior land it's laggy broken buggy there's no reason to pay for premium to have access to property on that *****y land you should rent from an estate owner

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