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Grumpity Linden

A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

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35 minutes ago, rasterscan said:

Getting a housboat may have helped my disposition considerably as well :D

It would appear so you old goat you. xD

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2 minutes ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

Then, what's the plan with people with that current amount of groups, paid groups?? What will happen to people who already have 42 groups and only a couple of free groups to join and rejoin???

This was answered 4 or 5 times already. Its not different than if you are a premium member with 60 groups and you go back to basic.

You would keep your 42 groups as a basic member but would not beable to join any new groups unless you get that total below 35 enabling you to join another. (34 groups)

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1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

But you SAID only bloggers are getting homes. I said no, that's not true.

You are the specific type of person that makes these forums just absolutely miserable places to be. Best of luck to you from the high horse you sit upon.

 

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1 minute ago, Malin Sabra said:

This was answered 4 or 5 times already. Its not different than if you are a premium member with 60 groups and you go back to basic.

You would keep your 42 groups as a basic member but would not beable to join any new groups unless you get that total below 35 enabling you to join another. (34 groups)

I know that. But again, that's not a plan. The question is to "try" make them understand that issue and think of a solution for that.

 

 

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ok im going to say its not fair that us basic members are getting 35 groups its going to be really hard on people like me who are host in clubs I get two group invites one for staff and the other for vip and the groups im in a I  paid lidens for im really hoping you are reconsidering this bc honestly I cannot afford the premium but premiums are getting more groups its like you honestly do want to hurry up and get rid of us basic account people it hurts but im hoping you guys can have a heart and reconsider this but I guess this wont do no good as long as other people can afford the premium the rest can go to ***** im at right if not prove me wrong

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On 5/30/2019 at 3:14 PM, Kat Linden said:

Hi! So, I am very afraid of pitchforks - please be gentle.

I just wanted to briefly address groups maths. It's true that the groups of Basic accounts are being lowered by 7, and the groups of Premium accounts are being raised by 10 - and if you look at that math alone, it might not seem to add up. However, most residents have at least one alt. Technically, you can have up to 5 alts, and many residents are not entirely limited by that technicality. But let's you had one Premium Membership and 4 Basic alts - the number of groups you could have on your main account would go up by 10, but the total number of groups you could be a member of would go down by 18. This is important because all members of groups contribute to lag, even inactive group members. This is especially true for group chat. There are residents who have a lot of alts that they have not used in years that are still part of groups, and they are slowing those groups down. Lowering the number of groups for Basic accounts will not be a quick fix for this issue, but reducing the number of groups Basic members can join could help keep it from building further as we go forward.

Why there's no fix for the inactive people?! why not checking up who's still active, send them a message if no reply or no login after 1 year that account to be deactivated. That way there's 1 person in - (minus) on the not so crowded SL, lowering the groups issues and such. And yeah, taking our basics groups to add to the premium doesn't make sense sadly. I'll join the 42 groups I've got and keep them as long as I can. 

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2 minutes ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

I know that. But again, that's not a plan. The question is to "try" make them understand that issue and think of a solution for that.

one of the plans could be a better use of abilities in the groups by the owners.
I said it a bit earlier at the Answers section... all those clubs with manager groups, dj groups, and whatever groups, could easely put all in ONE, and use the group abilities to seperate those roles in receiving the notices meant for that role only. ... it would reduce really a zillion useless groups.

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3 minutes ago, QueerGirLiza said:

ok im going to say its not fair that us basic members are getting 35 groups its going to be really hard on people like me who are host in clubs I get two group invites one for staff and the other for vip and the groups im in a I  paid lidens for im really hoping you are reconsidering this bc honestly I cannot afford the premium but premiums are getting more groups its like you honestly do want to hurry up and get rid of us basic account people it hurts but im hoping you guys can have a heart and reconsider this but I guess this wont do no good as long as other people can afford the premium the rest can go to ***** im at right if not prove me wrong

Just now, Fox Wijaya said:

one of the plans could be a better use of abilities in the groups by the owners.
I said it a bit earlier at the Answers section... all those clubs with manager groups, dj groups, and whatever groups, could easely put all in ONE, and use the group abilities to seperate those roles in receiving the notices meant for that role only. ... it would reduce really a zillion useless groups.

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4 minutes ago, amyalka said:

Why there's no fix for the inactive people?!

group owners can delete people very fast and easy, last logins are shown in the memberlists, there's no need to involve LL in that.

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Just now, Fox Wijaya said:

one of the plans could be a better use of abilities in the groups by the owners.
I said it a bit earlier at the Answers section... all those clubs with manager groups, dj groups, and whatever groups, could easely put all in ONE, and use the group abilities to seperate those roles in receiving the notices meant for that role only. ... it would reduce really a zillion useless groups.

I also thought of a system of suscribe-o matic that could replace paid groups and everything is kept in a database. Some sort of caspervend system aimed to replace groups. I would love for the residents to not get their fun/money manipulated by groups and the decisions the big guys make over them. If they fail to see the issue here pretty sure they don't use SL even half of what the rest of us do.

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3 minutes ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

I know that. But again, that's not a plan. The question is to "try" make them understand that issue and think of a solution for that.

 

 

The plan is to move basic members to 35 groups. 🤨

That question has been asked 52 times already and answered 4-5 times. Whats you plan? :D The solution is to leave some groups and choose wisely or pay for more groups 😑

If I could I would give you some of my free group slots. I don't need the extra myself. Groups and group notices just annoy me :P

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Jo Yardley said:

Because large group owners like to boast over how many people are in their groups, regardless of the zombies. Its a social acceptance thing... look my groups better than yours, it has more members!!

 

Edit: like twitter followers and facebook

Edited by Malin Sabra
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On 5/30/2019 at 5:08 AM, Milena Coy said:

Why there is a difference with VAT depending on the plan? No VAT when annual, VAT when monthly or quarterly. Why this difference?

 

I'm grabbing this question from way early on to answer it.   

The differences between the subscriptions types and lengths are what cause us to have to add VAT on the monthly and quarterly subscriptions.   There are certain parameters we have to follow which dictate where each plan falls into.  The annual subscription does not qualify for all of those parameters, so luckily we don't have to put VAT on it.   😊

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1 minute ago, Malin Sabra said:

The plan is to move basic members to 35 groups. 🤨

That question has been asked 52 times already and answered 4-5 times. Whats you plan? :D The solution is to leave some groups and choose wisely or pay for more groups 😑

If I could I would give you some of my free group slots. I don't need the extra myself. Groups and group notices just annoy me :P

I have premium, I dont really use all of my slots and Im a massive shopper. But I also have basic accounts, with lots of paid group stores and the ones I delete and rejoin because those are free groups. Again, that's not really a plan, is not fixing the issue I mentioned before, that's a decision they made and it doesn't look like they even thought about paid groups.

 

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8 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

one of the plans could be a better use of abilities in the groups by the owners.
I said it a bit earlier at the Answers section... all those clubs with manager groups, dj groups, and whatever groups, could easely put all in ONE, and use the group abilities to seperate those roles in receiving the notices meant for that role only. ... it would reduce really a zillion useless groups.

tbh, a lot of those roles could be better handled outside of SL, in things such as Discord.  I don't like having another window open, but for a lot of things, Discord is better.  I.e. someone asking a question...and someone logs on an hour later, they can't see it, but could in a discord chat group.  And no, i don't like having the discord open for most thing, however, the usability of it is MUCH better.  for instance, say a mesh body.  One general room, one for OT talk.  then private rooms for management, creators, advertisers, bug reports, ...it opens a lot more options.

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1 minute ago, Ginger Xuisse said:

I have premium, I dont really use all of my slots and Im a massive shopper. But I also have basic accounts, with lots of paid group stores and the ones I delete and rejoin because those are free groups. Again, that's not really a plan, is not fixing the issue I mentioned before, that's a decision they made and it doesn't look like they even thought about paid groups.

 

I think thats on the group owners and people joining them more than on LL. I get why some people charge a small fee to eliminate spammers from joining the group and some charge a fee because they give items away like Truth Hair which makes it worth it. But I think the smaller people maybe need to rethink their Pay to join method of managing their group unless they want less people to join it.

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Posted (edited)

But lets be honest, LL could give us 300 groups and we would fill them and still have to leave and rejoin groups constantly

Edited by Malin Sabra
typo
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I just calculated that if I were to employ 4 alts I'd save 30us$ a year in the current scheme. With the new scheme I'd loose a whopping 76 us$ with 4 alts. That could be a reasonable justification for the massive unreasonable price increase.

I should have made that calculation sooner. Now my alts will remain poor. I'm not gonna premium up 4 alts for the duration of a year.

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On 5/30/2019 at 3:28 AM, Grumpity Linden said:

Hi! This started out as a brief clarification on some things causing confusion, and has turned into a long bullet-point list.  Rather than replying to the numerous threads on the forums, I'm going to try to put it all together here.  As long as the conversation remains civil, I'll do my best to respond to questions. Please point the pitchforks away from my eyes though...  

  • Land prices:  Full estates get ~$20/mo reduction in price. For the first time we are also reducing GF/BD region pricing.  This is not a frivolous gift to the 1%. This has real and proven effects on the rents many more pay. 
     
  • Premium prices are going up on June 24.  Starting June 3 and until June 24,  Premium accounts have 3 weeks to pre-pay an additional cycle of premium at the old rates.  Best deal is, of course, prepaying for annual regardless of your current level. We hope you can take advantage of it. If you’re paying quarterly today, you can continue as quarterly. We will no longer offer it to new premium signups.  With the new prices, VAT will be charged on monthly and quarterly but not annual (of course only in the countries where VAT applies).
     
  • We looked. We hadn’t raised premium prices in the history of premium prices in SL. Crazy! A lot of value has been added to premium over the last few years (new Linden Homes, double tier, reduced mainland prices, premium access, more offline IMs, more transaction history, more groups, more animesh, experiences, and yet more to come) and we are raising prices to reflect that.   
  • We’re not lowering limits out of spite, groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools.  This subject alone is worth a novel liberally sprinkled with tears. So anyway, we don’t hate basic users, and in fact we work hard to retain our free-to-play offering as one of the most generous across many industries. But yes, no big surprise, we do want to nudge active residents to become subscribers, because we think it’s a great value, and - as many have noted - we’re also running a business. But no, we're not shutting our doors to non-premium residents. Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.  

  • Fees to process credit are going up, effective June 24.  L$ buy fees are not. Yes, this is another step in rebalancing the economy.  It’s also the right step, because the regulatory climate has evolved dramatically since SL first started out, and in order to continue to offer a platform for creators to actually make money, we have a lot of ongoing work to keep up with those regulations. Compliance is generally no fun (shh don’t tell our compliance people I said so - they’re wonderful and actually think it’s fun!) but it keeps all of us in business and the bad guys out. If we weren't doing this work, we would literally have to stop offering the ability to process credit. 

  • We’re making lasting investments into SL in infrastructure, features, and content.  While we set aside some special morsels only for premium members, the work we are doing benefits everyone - region crossings, attachment reliability, marketplace improvements, inventory stability, land auctions - are just a few examples.  No one project will please all of our residents, but we make an effort to address the needs of all communities in turn. We can’t get everything done immediately, but we’re focused and determined to keep SL successful and evolving. It’s a unique and thriving world we work hard to support. 

Look, this is obviously a bitter pill.  We can't keep slashing land prices at the rate we did last year.  We can’t raise other prices and yet keep everyone happy.  But we sincerely believe this is the best path forward - and hope you will come around too. 

P.S. we haven't given up on Last Names either.  

Well.... I'd like to add some of my own input based on the original post since so many have strayed and are now posting random and irrelevant information....

It's great you're reducing tier on Private Regions again, but now you're getting too close to Mainland pricing, so you really should reduce mainland pricing again as well. Although this really only benefits large estate holders to an extent. Being this is a public announcement, I am sure there will be many "Residents" who are going to assume and might even think tier prices should be reduced for them as well. Which actually makes it more of a burden based on the fees that have increased to accommodate the new tier prices.

I can partially understand increasing the Premium prices, but at the same time it is a disappointment since MMO's that also have a subscriber base aren't raising their's. However, I am not against it if it's worthwhile. You have added a lot to premium perks, but you don't know if that's what we actually want. Speaking for myself, I would have preferred a larger stipend say 500L$ rather than 300L$, I appreciate the 1024 vs the 512 free land capacity, can't say much for the new Linden Homes since I can't get one, not all of us use experiences (some lack the knowledge to do so), I don't care about animesh (as premium we get 1 additional attachment? Who really cares?), and lastly, I personally don't need 10 more groups.

Now speaking of groups... I completely disagree with limiting Basic members to 35 (from 42 - 7 group difference) and rewarding Premium members 70 (from 60 + 10 group difference) when you clearly state - and I quote: "groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools". If this is such a problem, fix it... You'll likely have better results with the Basic members which severely outweigh those of us whom are premium. I'm not suggesting being "Robin Hood" taking from premium to give to basic, rather that you just leave that alone.

Process Credit Fees: Not even sure where to start with this, I realize cost of living increases and such annually, but the prices are getting a bit absurd. This is the second time you're raising the fees in the last 2 years and it's not a little change, you're doubling it. From what I can remember, it started at 1.5%, $3 minimum, $15 Maximum, moved to 2.5%, $3 minimum, $25 maximum, and now 5%, $3 minimum and NO maximum. As a business owner, I may have to raise my prices to stay in business and hope my customers understand the reason why I am doing so and I will need to hope they also remain loyal so that I won't have to close my doors.

P.S. What's taking so long with getting the last name change ability?

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2 minutes ago, Malin Sabra said:

But lets be honest, LL could give us 300 groups and we would fill them and still have to leave and rejoin groups constantly

Right. LL can give us all a red carpet and 1 million Linden dollars, but there will be people that would say.. I wanted a blue carpet and why can't I get 2 million?

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I don't care how many people there are in my group, I don't care about the colour of the carpet.

But I do want a stroopwafel.

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27 minutes ago, Jo Yardley said:

What about clearing inactive accounts?

I'm in favor, as long as they get to keep their inventories. And one year may be on the short side, especially if you're repossessing their land. But those are details -- if this has the potential of improving performance for all of us, I say go for it.

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When i came to sl i was basic ,,,,, and trying to figure  out how to walk  move was  and accomplishment . it was a month or so later i became premium for the house ...tired of the  harassment at the welcome center and trying  on outfits in sandbox got old ,,,  but i can tell you those  of us who are premium do care because  at one time or another we were basic ,,,,,,, i chose to be premium for the advantage to learn second life at a pace i was comfortable with  why the linden homes were a good option.   i am not a techy person  so prims  scripts all like a different language  and over the years little by little have learned  still trying to figure out mesh ,,,   

    i guess what i am saying is every one in second life had their own reason for joining and their own reason for what level  be it due to finances health entertainment  etc ,,,, so  i feel  linden labs needs to  look  at every residents needs and wishes and make that part of a decision  based on with that information how to positively grow  second life ,,,, second life is a big world with unlimited possibilities and should not limit  anyone s possibilities in this wonderful  world due to things that would hurt the good already achieved  ........ side note please linden labs  fix the  the bugs and issues

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