A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 minute ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

Sadly, though, the new buildings are always the same generic areas.  Country houses, and houseboats.  I used to be gorean...would have been nice to have medieval themed areas back then, in both M and A rated area.  Now that I am a child avatar on this account, what about G rated housing areas?  Child AVATARS in the starter avatars.

 

Heck.  i own a children's clothing store on an M parcel.  One day, I found that someone on the next sim over had a plywood prim wall all around their 1024.  BEGS for peeking in...all sexual intercourse videos.  Note....this parcel was less than 5m away from a sign stating children's clothing store.  A/R'd. and friends a/r'd.  Nothing was done.  for over a month, it was still there.  It has changed now, to a satisfactory change...but, it leaves me very leery of the A/R process.

Pretty sure it's fine if it's not out in the open.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 minute ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

Heck.  i own a children's clothing store on an M parcel. 

That might not be the best strategy for a children's store.

[Grumpity Linden]

 

7 hours ago, ElSolLaLuna said:

Still have not addressed my concern and confusion?  How can taking basic groups away and adding them to premium be a good thing?  and why is it blamed on bad programming/coding for groups.  I get that groups have issues but -1 +1 does not have any more or less effect on the issue?  Give basic back their groups!  Premium do not need more groups!!!  and it if it just to try to justify the extra 33% increase that is bullsh..t!  You want to charge more and maybe it is time to but doing the switch does not justify taking groups from basic members!

We have approximately 90,000 basic members with 36 or more groups.  We have approximately 10,000 premium subscribers with 55 or more groups.  This is not a 1:1 change.  Does that help with the confusion?  

 

[CHRISTEENIE]

3 minutes ago, Cam Mode said:

Let's try logic, maybe you only read about these houses in bloggers' blogs because , even if you furrow your brow, without a blog you can not make your words appear in front of somebody's face.

Well, ok, maybe you can with Google glass but Sergey won't send me a set so I'm not sure.

Oh, and I have absolutely NOTHING against bloggers.  I love them.  The content they show to the world keeps me here.  I'm just saying, it doesn't seem opportunities for these "new" linden lands are made available equally.  And I've been a premium member for a long time.  But do not misunderstand, I have nothing against bloggers.  I am the ultimate consumer because of the wonderful things they show me!

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Just now, CHRISTEENIE said:

Oh, and I have absolutely NOTHING against bloggers.  I love them.  The content they show to the world keeps me here.  I'm just saying, it doesn't seem opportunities for these "new" linden lands are made available equally.  And I've been a premium member for a long time.  But do not misunderstand, I have nothing against bloggers.  I am the ultimate consumer because of the wonderful things they show me!

Your logic is flawed. Just because some bloggers have new homes does not mean that ONLY bloggers have homes.

[Hunny Bunny]

Though the new homes are not available to everyone right now since they have "sold out" they were available to everyone. I got one and I am not a blogger and no I was not sitting and waiting for them to become available. I knew they were coming and was lucky enough to get one. I even swapped a couple times before I settled on one.

[LeeeBlack]

1 hour ago, Jules Catlyn said:

number of people online barely peaks over 50.000

No one is in the game for 24 hours. 1-2 hours on average. And not every day.
To maintain the figure of 50,000 online during the 24 hours, you need about 24 / 1.5 and multiplied by 50,000 - 800,000 people.
If 1/2 of the players comes 1 time in two days, then there are at least 1,200,000 active accounts in the SL.

Edited May 31, 2019 by LeeeBlack

[Fox Wijaya]

2 minutes ago, CHRISTEENIE said:

Oh, and I have absolutely NOTHING against bloggers.

no.. thats why you rant about them...
btw. i didn't see any blogger about homes on the sims where i hang out .. nor as owners of houseboats there, just residents

[Fox Wijaya]

3 minutes ago, LeeeBlack said:

No one is in the game for days. 1-2 hours on average. And not every day.
To maintain the figure of 50,000 online during the 24 hours, you need about 24 / 1.5 and multiplied by 50,000 - 800,000 people.
If 1/2 of the players comes 1 time in two days, then there are at least 1,200,000 active accounts in the SL.

i am, and really millions of dutchies are online for 7 or 8 hours a day, your calculation isn't right..

so now you say 1.2 million residents... means 200.000 from the world and 1 million russians... get complicated to follow now

Edited May 31, 2019 by Fox Wijaya

[Fyrebird Courier]

 

1 minute ago, LeeeBlack said:

No one is in the game for days. 1-2 hours on average. And not every day.
To maintain the figure of 50,000 online during the 24 hours, you need about 24 / 1.5 and multiplied by 50,000 - 800,000 people.
If 1/2 of the players comes 1 time in two days, then there are at least 1,200,000 active accounts in the SL.

Maybe for you it is 1-2 hours a day.  Most of my friends list, it is minimum 3-4 hours, if not 8+ hours in that day.  And i am not talking alts, or "sleeping".  Active, working on creating, or dance clubs, or roleplaying, or just...whatever.

[Jessyka Richard]

8 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

This thread has grown very long, and I cannot promise to continue monitoring it.

 

Pathetic.

[Fox Wijaya]

1 minute ago, Jessyka Richard said:

Pathetic.

the venting is ok, the whining is indeed

[Malin Sabra]

11 minutes ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

 

Maybe for you it is 1-2 hours a day.  Most of my friends list, it is minimum 3-4 hours, if not 8+ hours in that day.  And i am not talking alts, or "sleeping".  Active, working on creating, or dance clubs, or roleplaying, or just...whatever.

Huge portion of SL's population are disabled people too, and I can assure you they are on more than 1-2 hours a day also lol.

This is also the huge portion that struggles with the price increases. Low fixed incomes don't allow for much play money unless you create things and even then now you get the 5% hit.

Edit: but being a disabled creator does cut your costs on having to buy lindens.

Edit again: They are at least logged in for more than 1-2 hours a day even if they are afk 90% of that logged in time.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Malin Sabra
Added comment.

[Cam Mode]

13 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Never happened.

Linden sent cakes , friend got one with the wrong name on it. After a re-rez it was fixed.

[LeeeBlack]

2 minutes ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

Most of my friends list, it is minimum 3-4 hours, if not 8+ hours in that day

Well, someone comes every two or three days for half an hour to say hello. And someone comes once a week.
I'm talking about approximate estimates of the number of active accounts and not about accurate estimates.
Lindens themselves talk about the numbers of a million people a month.

[Selene Gregoire]

5 hours ago, Jo Yardley said:

PS it's Linden Lab, no s at the end.
They only have one lab, not multiple.

And technically they're not even one lab.
They don't wear white coats and there is not ONE bunsen burner in the whole building!
I checked.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I'll get my coat.

*clears throat*  Actually... Linden Research dba Linden Lab.

[CHRISTEENIE]

9 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

no.. thats why you rant about them...
btw. i didn't see any blogger about homes on the sims where i hang out .. nor as owners of houseboats there, just residents

My rant had to do with the availability of new land relative to the increase in membership price and linden acquisition fees.  I have checked daily for opportunities for these new places and see none.  But do not misconstrue my words about bloggers.  SL would be NOTHING without them.  I've dumped thousands of USDs into the Linden economy due to bloggers.  I regret none of it.  I'm only saddened that price increases are occurring at a time where Linden promises made seem more like dangling carrots.

 

[Plurabelle Laszlo]

4 hours ago, Plurabelle Laszlo said:

While I am upset about this change because to me it makes SL harder to enjoy; because it means a noticeable financial loss for my business that is not generating that much profit anyway, and because I wish for a lot of changes that keep being announced and then never happen... does not mean that I "hate" LL or any of their staff members.

I actually think there were a lot of positive developments lately - I am just disappointed that this decision feels like a huge step back. SL needs to support their active community members, not penalize or offend them. SL needs to become more attractive for basic members and premium members alike.

And we all (and LL) need to acknowledge that SLers are not a homogeneous group. I don't need or want a Linden home, but the new designs made a lot of people happy, and they are definitely an improvement. My needs as owner of a small business and roleplay admin differ a lot from other people's needs. The number of groups are essential for some of us, for others almost irrelevant.

I -really- appreciate that this debate happens at all, there were long years where dialogue between users and LL seemed not supported or wanted. It would be great if we could just -talk- in a civilized manner without those crazy rants and insults. The sky is not falling.

(It also would be great if this debate would lead to reconsidering the latest decisions of course )

 

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, FreyasFashions said:

I've been saying for years MP should be selling for Premium only. Free accounts - browse, then buy inworld

 

Two-fold - stops all what you say, PLUS would galvanise inworld land usage for stores.

One major problem with your idea. Many of the stores on the MP do not have an inworld store. So once again, basics would be ostracized/punished for not being able to afford premium. 

So many of you want SL to be just like RL...well... with the blatant discrimination that has been quite visible in the forums the past 2 days you've succeeded. Congratulations.

[Skell Dagger]

25 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Never happened.

I remember getting a cake from LL on both my main and an alt. And here is Daniel Voyager's blog post about the one he received for his 6th rezday.

[Beth Macbain]

sighs

You👏get👏what👏you👏pay👏for.

• Non premium account holders don't want to lose the already-free benefits they're receiving, thus not only not paying the Lab more money, but costing them as well.
• Consumers don't want to pay more money to the Lab through their premium account, or lack of.
• Creators don't want to pay more money to the Lab through transaction fees. 

Anyone else see a problem here? A bit of a catch-22 perhaps? Is the Lab that provides this platform supposed to make net zero off anyone other than the land barons? And why should the land barons have to carry the burden for all of us?

So... who should LL make angry? The consumers or the creators? 

They split it down the middle. 

• They didn't get rid of free accounts, but yes, they took away some of the benefits. You want more group slots? Pay for them.
• The price increase for premium members is, I'm sorry, but seriously, it's negligible for something that is essentially a luxury entertainment item. It's an increase of 7 cents per day for those who pay annually, 8 cents a day for those who pay monthly. If that is beyond your budget, and I completely understand that for some of you it is, then I'm really sorry, but perhaps having a premium membership isn't the best option for you at this time. You still have the free membership option.
• I still haven't gotten a good answer about what percentage of fees LL takes from creators and I'm too lazy to figure it out, but I'm going to be generous and say LL takes 30% of your sales? No? More? Less? It's less, isn't it? The average profit margin for a small retail store is anywhere from 1%-3%, and whether or not that is enough profit to live on hinges on volume of inventory moved. If you're not moving enough inventory, that's hardly LL's fault. Oh, and your profit margin is WAY more than 3%, isn't it? 

No one wants things to cost more. That's human nature. We want to keep what is ours, especially when we feel we've earned it. There is a cost for doing business and there is a cost for the type of entertainment SL provides. 

I'm sure I'm going to be told, again, to shut up by someone but... this is the ugly truth. LL has to make money. LL has to make more money than they currently are. Someone has to pay for Sansar and there is no one else to do that but us. It sucks. I think Sansar should be shut down and be written off. I hated the idea of Sansar from day 1. But... bills still have to be paid and the parent company of Sansar is LL. They could choose to not pay, and go into the red... file bankruptcy, shut off the servers, and the employees can all go get other jobs in Silicon Valley that probably pay them considerably more than LL pays them, and we'd all lose SL.

I'm not willing to do that. People seem to think the Lab made a bunch of flippant decisions and decided to screw over their user base just for fun. I don't think that's true in the slightest. I think no one wanted to charge anyone more money or take anything away from anyone, but it's necessary, and in my opinion, fair.

Go ahead and tell me to shut up if it makes you feel better.

[Cackle Amore]

Ya know, I feel like the thread could use some positivity to help balance things out, fantastic job you've guys done on the Bakes on Mesh project thus far, really looking forward to it! @Grumpity Linden 

[Malin Sabra]

7 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

......

I'm sure I'm going to be told, again, to shut up by someone but... this is the ugly truth. LL has to make money. LL has to make more money than they currently are. Someone has to pay for Sansar and there is no one else to do that but us. It sucks. I think Sansar should be shut down and be written off. I hated the idea of Sansar from day 1. But... bills still have to be paid and the parent company of Sansar is LL. They could choose to not pay, and go into the red... file bankruptcy, shut off the servers, and the employees can all go get other jobs in Silicon Valley that probably pay them considerably more than LL pays them, and we'd all lose SL.

I'm not willing to do that. People seem to think the Lab made a bunch of flippant decisions and decided to screw over their user base just for fun. I don't think that's true in the slightest. I think no one wanted to charge anyone more money or take anything away from anyone, but it's necessary, and in my opinion, fair.

Go ahead and tell me to shut up if it makes you feel better.

......

Well said.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Malin Sabra

[FreyasFashions]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

One major problem with your idea. Many of the stores on the MP do not have an inworld store. So once again, basics would be ostracized/punished for not being able to afford premium. 

So many of you want SL to be just like RL...well... with the blatant discrimination that has been quite visible in the forums the past 2 days you've succeeded. Congratulations.

Nothing to do with discrimination. Premium members pay upfront, simple economics - pre-paid income - they have better 'options'.

And yes, my thought would encourage more inworld stores and give an added bonus to being Premium.

 

People complain mainland is 'empty' - pushing merchants to having an inworld store (if on free accounts) would aid that. Plus more folk going Premium to actively sell on MP would also mean they have their 1024sqm to use as they see fit - home or store.

 

I've never claimed it was a popular opinion (with free account holders especially) but as the benefits previously mentioned (cutting down on the multitude of copybotters etc that LL apparently struggle with) combined with "encouragement" to use land inworld it's worth suggesting.

 

[Fyrebird Courier]

average small business makes 1-3%.  I understand that.  However, they (theoretically) are getting at least a minimum wage.  Even though once created, the objects made for sale in SL are "free", I do not know a lot of creators that are really getting a "minimum" wage from it.  Cost of objects have gone down seriously in 10 years, forcing creators to have to rely on tactics such as 50L sales, to keep $$ coming in.  And i constantly hear about how even at THAT rate, creators are ripping people off.