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Grumpity Linden

A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

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Posted (edited)

SL needs more users to get more subscribers. The current userbase is either subbed, always too poor, now too poor because of premium increases, or firmly cemented on not buying premium because they have better things to do with their money (a game isn't going to convince them.) If LL's actual strategy is trying to just milk current subscribers and players, SL is the already sinking Titanic and each one of these price increases is an Iceberg ship slamming into it.

Edited by Desudesudesuka
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17 hours ago, Kat Linden said:

Hi! So, I am very afraid of pitchforks - please be gentle.

I just wanted to briefly address groups maths. It's true that the groups of Basic accounts are being lowered by 7, and the groups of Premium accounts are being raised by 10 - and if you look at that math alone, it might not seem to add up. However, most residents have at least one alt. Technically, you can have up to 5 alts, and many residents are not entirely limited by that technicality. But let's you had one Premium Membership and 4 Basic alts - the number of groups you could have on your main account would go up by 10, but the total number of groups you could be a member of would go down by 18. This is important because all members of groups contribute to lag, even inactive group members. This is especially true for group chat. There are residents who have a lot of alts that they have not used in years that are still part of groups, and they are slowing those groups down. Lowering the number of groups for Basic accounts will not be a quick fix for this issue, but reducing the number of groups Basic members can join could help keep it from building further as we go forward.

 

18 hours ago, Blueberryxx said:

With all due respect, I would like you guys to reconsider this. If the groups are causing unnecessary constraint, then perhaps they should be fixed. They should be fixed regardless of any selling points because a simple look at Jira will reveal many problems with groups that already exist. Taking away group spaces from basic members, while increasing fees, instead of working towards a permanent solution, does not sit right.

From a creator's point of view, groups play the *biggest* role in advertising our new products. It is how we get sales. How do we expect newer creators to emerge without the ability to easily recruit customers to their group? Increasing fees is one thing, actively hurting our way to sell is my biggest concern here.

I also wholeheartedly believe  that Linden Lab is more than capable of selling premium membership without taking away features from it's basic account holders. You have a very capable team there. We believe in you guys. We hold you all to a higher standard. 

I appreciate that this is a privately owned company, and you guys don't realistically owe us a thing. But I still have hope in my heart and again, respectfully, in good faith, would like you guys to reconsider this one.

@Grumpity Linden  I still do not fully understand!  Alts are insignificant to your decision to lower basic members groups and raising premium members groups!  Simple maths tells me this decision has nothing to do with the technical issues with groups!!!  So try again to explain the numbers???  group 1 has 10 group 2 has 20 so you add 5 to group 2 and take 5 away from group 1 so now group 1 has only 5 and group two has 25.... It is just a rearranging of numbers nothing technical about it.  I understand that groups are an issue so taking them away makes sense but then adding them back does not resolve or even help the problem?

Please reconsider the maths on the groups and leave them just as they are today!

 

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4 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

But will they still get charge on their normal anniversary date they started the premium level?

No. They don't have to pay anything more until the extended sub runs out. If you look through the thread you'll see Grumpity's post clarifying how it works.

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4 minutes ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

many people have told me they could not use a prepaid c/c.  and if you don't have a bank...well, you are limited.

Then use a debit card or prepaid debit card.

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4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

If you got Premium benefits just for buying Ls, that's effectively free or partially free Premium membership. I know Premium members get a stipend, but that's factored into the cost of the membership. 

I am not saying necessarily getting the stipend or even the land per se...but I do believe there should be some folks that spend the same or more amount of money as each other...in your example of rice and peaches you are right...2 people choose to spend money differently but its still going to the same store... I understand folks heightened emotions about this topic...i guess what I don't seem to get is why when we all shopping at the same store why there aren't different type of frequent shopper rewards....but hey at the end of the day.it will be what it will be...I just wondered why no one ever seemed to think about those that are spending money differently enjoying certain aspects :D Thank you everyone for your response and as I said if anyone can explain the monetary difference when its all going to the same place for example). Premium members have a 75% rate of purchasing more lindens than a non premium so that is why and such.)..hey that makes simple business sense..but I have never seen numbers like that come out 

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2 minutes ago, ElSolLaLuna said:

There are residents who have a lot of alts that they have not used in years that are still part of groups, and they are slowing those groups down.

This is where you program in inactivity kicking.

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2 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

In order to make the Gmail business model viable, the contents of your messages are used to better advertise to you.  We are thoroughly completely entirely unwilling to go that route. 

but thanks, that gave me a good laugh :D

I'm just going to point out for everyone here who says "The Lindens don't care and just want your money" ~ that Grumpity is apparently up at Midnight reading and replying to this forum thread.

 

Also @Grumpity Linden should I make a feature request JIRA for my +1 Group Slot / Rez Day idea or is that sort of thing actually impractical?

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6 hours ago, ninalexa said:

unless one signs up for a year's worth of subscription (which you, LL, will be taking away from some VAT countries)

ninalexa, we aren't taking away annual subscriptions from anyone! Quite the contrary, we're continuing to offer annual subscriptions VAT-free, even though we now have to charge VAT on monthly and quarterly in those countries. 

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47 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Heathernorton, it won't be announced before the June 24th deadline, but you will be able to upgrade to the new superduper premium level at the time it comes out.  

Sorry for not reading all the previous pages.

Is there going to be a new premium level? And if I have already paid my annual premium, how will "upgrading" work? I am paying the difference between old premium and new, shiny premium?

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1 minute ago, polysail said:

I'm just going to point out for everyone here who says "The Lindens don't care and just want your money" ~ that Grumpity is apparently up at Midnight reading and replying to this forum thread.

 

Also @Grumpity Linden should I make a feature request JIRA for my +1 Group Slot / Rez Day idea or is that sort of thing actually impractical?

They stay up night. I remember when we had a RL night club south of San Francisco, there was a Linden staff who told me about SL (I blame him to this day for getting me into this mess) and was a regular at the club. He said "you should check the virtual world I'm working for on the back-end. and he left his office about midnight!

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3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Then use a debit card or prepaid debit card.

Mostly American debit cards. Debit cards aren't the same all across the globe.

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7 minutes ago, Dizzyscorpio Dragovar said:

.2 people choose to spend money differently but its still going to the same store..i guess what I don't seem to get is why when we all shopping at the same store why there aren't different type of frequent shopper rewards....but hey at the end of the day.it will be what it will be...I just wondered why no one ever seemed to think about those that are spending money differently enjoying certain aspects :D 

Well, because that's pretty much what spending money differently means...enjoying certain aspects. It's like asking why I didn't get peaches when I bought bananas if it's still all going to the same shop. Or why not all the fruit and veg is priced the same per pound. There'll be differences in how each fruit is obtained, stored and so on, which affects how much the shop needs charge for it. Same principle here.

If you think there should be some sort of loyalty system whereby you get extra benefits for buying a certain number of Ls, that's a different question that only a Linden can answer. But you can't buy service A and ask why you didn't get service B.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, EyesForMe said:

Mostly American debit cards. Debit cards aren't the same all across the globe.

I'm aware of that. Prepaid debit cards can be used as well. 

https://gomedici.com/top-12-prepaid-debit-cards-available-in-europe-for-hassle-free-and-secure-cross-border-use/

 

You can also find a list of accepted cards here: 

 

 

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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5 hours ago, Morena Tully said:

Something like this would be a great alternative to changing number of groups allowed. If you open group and hit the last logins to arrange them oldest to most recent, most groups who have been around a while have a LOT of members who haven't logged on in 5+ years. Culling inactives, if the majority would do that, might be quite helpful, and not be pissing off so many people now. But then there's group owners who feel proud to have over 1000 members, or 5000 members.. even if half never log on anymore.. It means they're popular, right?

Just for perspective: we have groups with over 100,000 members.  

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11 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

No. They don't have to pay anything more until the extended sub runs out. If you look through the thread you'll see Grumpity's post clarifying how it works.

Guess I missed that since this thread is running 2001 meters long.

 

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1 minute ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Guess I missed that since this thread is running 2001 meters long.

 

That sounds like a good note to end the night on. lol

 

Good night. :)

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4 hours ago, Jo Yardley said:

Another thing they should do is just completely abolish the setup-fee for new regions.
 It has always been a hurdle for me and others who are considering getting a region.

 

4 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The set up fee has been the one thing that always kept me from getting a sim. There is no way I could ever afford it and pay for the first month. It has always been completely out of my reach, even when I was working full time.

 

We dropped the setup fee by over 40% last year.  It now costs ~$100 + first month's fee to get a new region.  

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Issues with prepaid and gift cards

A common cause of payment method failure is the use of unsupported card types. At this time, the majority of prepaid cards are not compatible with our system, even if they bear the VISA/AMEX/Mastercard logo. This includes cards purchased at retail stores, rechargeable credit cards, and bank-issued check cards.

 

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I don't understand the "unused groups" idea people are floating  " kill them off , save the bandwidth."

How ever could Linden determine an "unused group"-- are items rezzed under its tag, do people wear that tag, is it used to let friends rez in a Linden home?

We need a sleek new "group" - more like a communication tool - where COMMTOOL allows chat, sends notices that ALWAYS arrive etc.

 

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Posted (edited)

Please reconsider the Quarterly subscription.

I've been here 12 years and been a premium member in the past, always paid quarterly, the yearly membership fee is just to much for me to afford just as it is for many others.

I worked out that with the price increases those  paying quarterly will now only get a 1 month saving over those that pay monthly, over the course of a year (currently it's 2)

The  group limits bite, I sort of understand the reasoning but then to say you're giving higher limits to premium members when they already have 18 more slots?

If you need to lower limits because of server problems but then increasing them for every premium member then, I don't get it. Really don't get it. Reduce by less or increase by less or both. I've got groups I've paid for I don't want to quit and groups joined for sentimental reasons I wouldn't be able to rejoin if I left.

Bottom line. If you keep Quarterly subscriptions - I, and I bet others will, would go premium again! It's the affordable option and middle ground  

So please, please keep it as an option or at least, don't phase it out so quickly, keep it open a bit longer.

 

Edited by Monderas Bristol
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14 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Sorry for not reading all the previous pages.

Is there going to be a new premium level? And if I have already paid my annual premium, how will "upgrading" work? I am paying the difference between old premium and new, shiny premium?

Yes exactly this!!! 

See should I throw money at premium or hold out for whatever this new level would be. 

Id feel a lot more relaxed if LL said 'soon' at least then id know ive got about a year maybe 2-3 tops before we saw anything happen 🤣

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4 minutes ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

it says setup fee is $349, then monthly is 249.

 

yup 249 +100 = 349.   Point to Ms Linden.

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1 minute ago, ananoelle said:

Yes exactly this!!! 

See should I throw money at premium or hold out for whatever this new level would be. 

Id feel a lot more relaxed if LL said 'soon' at least then id know ive got about a year maybe 2-3 tops before we saw anything happen 🤣

I would imagine they'll have some kind of upgrade option if you have the existing premium. In the blog post it says it's coming this year so not too long to wait:)

Quote

Even more improvements to Premium Membership are coming later this year: more new Linden Home themes and options as well as the introduction of an all-new membership level for those who want to get the absolute most out of their Second Life. Look out for updates to Events and more limit increases as well.  

 

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8 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I honestly am not sure if you wouldn't get the 50Ls again. Just as I am not sure if I ever did get what was my premium back if I would get the 500Ls I used to get on it. I think I remember reading somewhere that you do but I'm probably wrong. Not really up to chasing that down today.

I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't lol - 

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