A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[Grumpity Linden]

10 hours ago, Heathernorton said:

I have a question about the upcoming new membership level. Will it be announced before the June 24th deadline of renewing the membership? If I renew, (I am annual) will I be able to pay the difference and become this new "super user" if it interests me? How would that be calculated if it is announced after June 24th? on the old rate or the new rate?

 I apologize if this was answered before. I am having a hard time keeping up with the thread.

  

 

Heathernorton, it won't be announced before the June 24th deadline, but you will be able to upgrade to the new superduper premium level from a regular premium level at the time it comes out.  There will be a way to credit your existing membership towards the new. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Grumpity Linden
clarified upgrade to Premium ++

[Grumpity Linden]

9 hours ago, Purplerain Horowitz said:

So if I am understanding you correctly, if I just paid my $72.00 two or three months ago I can still pay up for another year at the current price? 

Correct!

[ananoelle]

3 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Heathernorton, it won't be announced before the June 24th deadline, but you will be able to upgrade to the new superduper premium level at the time it comes out.  

Maybe ill hold off on the alts premium until this new level is out in the open. 

[Dizzyscorpio Dragovar]

So here is my beef with all of it. I don't want to be premium..I don't have a need for the house or other things that come with it...BUUUUT in a years time I easily spend that much in lindens to pay my land, buy stuff and so forth...so...what I don't understand is with all these fees and stuff...and trying to force our hands to go premium to get these "special things" does nothing to reward those that do spend sometimes much more than "premium" folks do (not always) what I don't see being SOOO difficult is setting up lets say a rolling calendar year...and if in the last 12 months you spend XX$ on lindens you are granted premium rights or once you spend $$ on lindens you are granted premium rights for one year...the money is the same does it really matter if it comes in from someone paying 1yr premium or someone uploading 200$ worth of lindens...I get that I enjoy many wonderful things for free as I am a basic member...and it is also why I don't mind buying lindens to support the game as well as the creators and land owners that can do a lot more than I can..but I would bet ...you guys make much more money on that and would encourage linden purchases that way which would increase the general economy in SL which we know has been struggling for years instead of all this other pricing junk that you are doing...just my thoughts....

[Kadah Coba]

1 minute ago, ananoelle said:

Maybe ill hold off on the alts premium until this new level is out in the open. 

The downside to that would be not getting the first year for $27 less per account.

[ananoelle]

Just now, Kadah Coba said:

The downside to that would be not getting the first year for $27 less per account.

Ikr ... but then they bring out something better and ill be handing over more cash.. argh 

[Grumpity Linden]

8 hours ago, Uneven said:

Also, why not give a warning to everyone of the price increase for those not on premium now? The very basics you learn in marketing is offering a great deal that is time based lol. I bet you would have had a good amount of free users that would have bought into a premium account before the increase if you gave them the opportunity to do so.

That's exactly what we're doing.  Premium prices do not go up until June 24th.  Additionally, anyone who wishes to do so, can add up to 1yr at current rates to their existing membership. 

[TheSunTheMoon Starlight]

20 hours ago, blinkxx said:

My english is kinda weak

but I have one question about annual membership. I have an annual membership since January of this year. So it will end next year. Do I need to pay extra money now? Or I can do that next year when I have to renew it?

you should pay now if you want to keep the current rate of 72.00 and it will extend your premium an extra year to Jan 2021

[TheSunTheMoon Starlight]

20 hours ago, November Velde said:

Perhaps someone here can help me understand about locking in another year at the original price? The blog stated that between June and July, a person could get one more year. My problem is that my premium is not due until December 31st. Does this mean I'm SOL for being able to do this?

no if you pay now at 72.00 your membership gets extended for an extra year to Dec 31 2020 if you wait you will pay the 9?.00 price (can't recall the exact price).

[Amina Sopwith]

15 minutes ago, Dizzyscorpio Dragovar said:

So here is my beef with all of it. I don't want to be premium..I don't have a need for the house or other things that come with it...BUUUUT in a years time I easily spend that much in lindens to pay my land, buy stuff and so forth...so...what I don't understand is with all these fees and stuff...and trying to force our hands to go premium to get these "special things" does nothing to reward those that do spend sometimes much more than "premium" folks do (not always) what I don't see being SOOO difficult is setting up lets say a rolling calendar year...and if in the last 12 months you spend XX$ on lindens you are granted premium rights or once you spend $$ on lindens you are granted premium rights for one year...the money is the same does it really matter if it comes in from someone paying 1yr premium or someone uploading 200$ worth of lindens...I get that I enjoy many wonderful things for free as I am a basic member...and it is also why I don't mind buying lindens to support the game as well as the creators and land owners that can do a lot more than I can..but I would bet ...you guys make much more money on that and would encourage linden purchases that way which would increase the general economy in SL which we know has been struggling for years instead of all this other pricing junk that you are doing...just my thoughts....

I'm also a basic member and always have been, and I'm not sure I follow this. Sure, I buy Lindens to purchase the things I want, and I get them. I don't buy Premium because I don't want what it offers, or at least not enough to pay that price for it. I don't see why we should get Premium membership because we're spending our Ls on other things? If you want Premium, buy Premium. If you just want Ls and to rent land, do that.

[EyesForMe]

I understand where these changes are coming from but I couldn't go premium even if i wanted to. As far as I know, you either have to have a credit card, or a credit card backed paypal account to pay for premium and land. I don't have a credit card, and I don't really want one. So I would like to see you guys address payment options before you put anything else basic accounts can already do behind a Premium paywall - I have read every reply in this thread (Yes, I'm bored, and a little more than a little concerned)

I've seen people suggest LL should put cashing out/owning an MP store/what have you merchant stuff behind the premium paywall and that's an awful idea. Sure it's great for security, but it does go against what SL has been from the very beginning (anyone can create and sell) but MAINLY: Credit Cards aren't as popular outside of the US as they are in the US, where you basically can't live without one. You would basically be banning huge swathes of non Americans from participating as creators if they can't pay for a premium account, whether they can't afford it, or can't pay for it because they dont have a credit card. If I'm mistaken about the credit card/ credit card backed paypal thing, then disregard.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, lambskin said:

Nothing is getting remade ever. The current lindens are stewards, nothing more.

They should never have let Vector get away.

[Dizzyscorpio Dragovar]

14 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I'm also a basic member and always have been, and I'm not sure I follow this. Sure, I buy Lindens to purchase the things I want, and I get them. I don't buy Premium because I don't want what it offers, or at least not enough to pay that price for it. I don't see why we should get Premium membership because we're spending our Ls on other things? If you want Premium, buy Premium. If you just want Ls and to rent land, do that.

I guess is there should be some sort of perk for purchasing lindens upwards of certain amount many people don't want 90% of what premium offers..but for example the groups..which seems to be the biggest issue at hand...so why can't those who pay the same amount of money be allowed some benefits at the end of the day..or if you spend double that on lindens as example then you can be allowed others as well...Maybe it is a silly way to think about it..but at the end of the day if we are choosing to spend money shouldn't all be treated somewhat equally... I am on a fixed income and I budget for what I spend on LL and to spend 99$ a year to get most things I don't need or use....vs spend that on lindens for almost all I need (except the group space and maybe teleport things on the rare occasion) I have to make the money make sense..and to me it just doesn't make sense why if 2 people go to LL and say here is 100$ one buys premium one buys lindens why there should be a different treatment. I am not saying entitlement since both are paying money ...just something as a hey thanks for the support.  

At the end of the day its basically saying at least in the way I think its using a one size fits all option in a world that definitely one size doesn't fit all...people have different needs and wants so why give perks to only  those that fit in certain categories and spend vs all that spend the same amount of money..if I am missing something with my 100$-100$ comparison I would love to be informed of the difference I am always willing to learn...and not afraid to admit I mis understood something..just wanting to give a different point of view is all. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Dizzyscorpio Dragovar

[Grumpity Linden]

7 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Grumpity, I'd like a clarification on the grandfathered/buydown regions...

I understand that if I buy a grandfathered or bought-down region, I can have that status transferred, for a fee, and pay the new, even lower, monthly price.  That's terrific.

 Here's my question:  Are you going to re-open the buy-down option for people who buy a new private region from LL or purchase a standard, non-grandfathered region from another resident?

Lindal, there are no such plans at this time.  However, it is still possible to buy a GF/BD region and keep that GF/BD status with the larger transfer fee, as you describe. 

[Selene Gregoire]

53 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Maybe someone here will win the super big lotto and invest into the Labs.

Invest? pfft I'd buy the damn thing lock, stock and barrel. Then really shake things up. 😈

[Fyrebird Courier]

I do agree with EyesForMe.  Luckily, i do have a paypal debit card, but i know many people who cannot afford (or are afraid of having an acct hacked, so do not use their "real" acct) to have a credit or debit card.  yet, they are unable to load money onto a prepaid card, and use it.

 

I would like to see Lindens find a way to accept $$ ...can someone western union, send in a check, go to a 7eleven and buy a card (like other games)...SOME way.  Honestly, if you come up with a way like that, you will see more.  If it were the prepaid game card, even if the rate were semi-horrendous (for example.  right now, it is about $4/1000L.  if it were the equivalent of $6/1000L, there would still be people buying it, or asking for it for christmas/etc).

[Polymath Snuggler]

2 hours ago, NonVoxSedVotum said:

I've been reading through this thread and the overall sense I get : entitlement. You all know that LL is a business first and foremost, but consider this : SL is NOT a necessity for you to exist in the world. If your biggest gripe is group slots and stipend amount or SL fees you live a pretty cushy life, even if you don't' believe so.  You either pay up or you move along, this is how life works-virtual or otherwise. No one is forced to make a living in SL or even use it, it's all a choice. You (we) are not entitled to anything. Your RL budget and financial limits are of no concern to anyone but you.

It does not matter if you are on a fixed income or you have a zillion dollars in the bank, things cost money. When you can't afford the things, you do without them until you can.  You really think whinging on this forum is going to change any of that? I don't care if you've been in SL since they opened the doors or 5 minutes, you pay or you move along. End of.

And yes this is a new account I made because I would rather not make myself a target by posting with my years old account, because people can be really extra like that.

You made an alt to troll people, so I don't really know why I'm wasting my breath refuting your obvious troll.  But it's late, and I might as well.

Actually SL IS a necessity for many peoples lives.  It IS needed for them to exist in the world.  They live in remote parts of the world, or they've got no other means of income, or they're disabled, they're bedridden, etc~  and so without SL they have nothing. No money, no food, no social life, no normalcy, no nothing.  The fact may be that the majority of SL residents don't fall into these categories, but some do, and coming here pretending to speak 'truth' to all of the 'entitled' whiners is what makes discussions like this devolve into unproductive flaming instead of providing valued feedback.

People are rightfully concerned because as human beings we're afraid of change~   changes to what we know and love ~ cause worry that it will end that normalcy that they have grown to expect.  That's no more a sense of 'entitlement' than the average worker feels each day ~  a feeling that they're entitled to go in to work each morning and still have the same job at the same desk that they had yesterday.

Are these changes by themselves going to be the end of SL?  Heavens no!  But the underlying ~ unwritten, nagging question at the back of everyone's mind is that gnawing cynical feeling of "if the Lab is this desperate for money ~ where is SL going to be in 3 years ~ in 5 years?"   No one has an answer for that.  While some have argued that this is due to the failure of Sansar, it could also just as easily be argued that the landscape of the entire world has changed and SL needs to adapt.  That the steps that are being taken are a good sign for the longevity of the platform.

 

I don't know which it is ~ but I sure hope it's the latter.  Too many good things come from SL for it to vanish quietly into the crevices of the forgotten parts of the internet.

[Amina Sopwith]

15 minutes ago, Dizzyscorpio Dragovar said:

Maybe it is a silly way to think about it..but at the end of the day if we are choosing to spend money shouldn't all be treated somewhat equally...I have to make the money make sense..and to me it just doesn't make sense why if 2 people go to LL and say here is 100$ one buys premium one buys lindens why there should be a different treatment. I am not saying entitlement since both are paying money ...just something as a hey thanks for the support.  

Well, because they're paying for different things. Two people on a fixed income with only the cost of a Premium membership to spend. One of them decides that Premium is best for what they personally want, the other would rather convert the whole thing into solid Ls. I don't see how that's in any way unequal or showing "different treatment"...it's just people deciding what to spend their money on. I buy bananas, my friend buys peaches.

If you got Premium benefits just for buying Ls, that's effectively free or partially free Premium membership. I know Premium members get a stipend, but that's factored into the cost of the membership. 

[Shauna Greymoon]

I've always loved the idea of buying L and "time cards" in stores. Dare to dream! ♥

[NonVoxSedVotum]

1 hour ago, Shauna Greymoon said:

I love that that person made a whole new account to lecture people from. Because other people are "really extra". Mm. 

Its not lecturing, just stating my opinions on the matter.  I post with my main account also, and I don't try to make trouble with anyone but people think they can then just message you or single you out for poor treatment because you say something different than what they think-that is what I meant by the extra comment.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

22 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

That's exactly what we're doing.  Premium prices do not go up until June 24th.  Additionally, anyone who wishes to do so, can add up to 1yr at current rates to their existing membership. 

But will they still get charge on their normal anniversary date they started the premium level?

10 minutes ago, Fyrebird Courier said:

I

I would like to see Lindens find a way to accept $$ ...can someone western union, send in a check, go to a 7eleven and buy a card (like other games)...SOME way.  Honestly, if you come up with a way like that, you will see more.  If it were the prepaid game card, even if the rate were semi-horrendous (for example.  right now, it is about $4/1000L.  if it were the equivalent of $6/1000L, there would still be people buying it, or asking for it for christmas/etc).

Maybe take KarmaKoin.

[Selene Gregoire]

20 minutes ago, EyesForMe said:

I understand where these changes are coming from but I couldn't go premium even if i wanted to. As far as I know, you either have to have a credit card, or a credit card backed paypal account to pay for premium and land. I don't have a credit card, and I don't really want one. So I would like to see you guys address payment options before you put anything else basic accounts can already do behind a Premium paywall - I have read every reply in this thread (Yes, I'm bored, and a little more than a little concerned)

I've seen people suggest LL should put cashing out/owning an MP store/what have you merchant stuff behind the premium paywall and that's an awful idea. Sure it's great for security, but it does go against what SL has been from the very beginning (anyone can create and sell) but MAINLY: Credit Cards aren't as popular outside of the US as they are in the US, where you basically can't live without one. You would basically be banning huge swathes of non Americans from participating as creators if they can't pay for a premium account, whether they can't afford it, or can't pay for it because they dont have a credit card. If I'm mistaken about the credit card/ credit card backed paypal thing, then disregard.

All you need is a debit/prepaid debit card, If you don't plan on ever cashing out Paypal isn't needed. I don't have any credit cards. I've been using a debit card for years without any issues except one a long time ago and the problem was with LL's website, not the card.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[NonVoxSedVotum]

5 minutes ago, polysail said:

You made an alt to troll people, so I don't really know why I'm wasting my breath refuting your obvious troll.  But it's late, and I might as well.

Actually SL IS a necessity for many peoples lives.  It IS needed for them to exist in the world.  They live in remote parts of the world, or they've got no other means of income, or they're disabled, they're bedridden, etc~  and so without SL they have nothing. No money, no food, no social life, no normalcy, no nothing.  The fact may be that the majority of SL residents don't fall into these categories, but some do, and coming here pretending to speak 'truth' to all of the 'entitled' whiners is what makes discussions like this devolve into unproductive flaming instead of providing valued feedback.

People are rightfully concerned because as human beings we're afraid of change~   changes to what we know and love ~ cause worry that it will end that normalcy that they have grown to expect.  That's no more a sense of 'entitlement' than the average worker feels each day ~  a feeling that they're entitled to go in to work each morning and still have the same job at the same desk that they had yesterday.

Are these changes by themselves going to be the end of SL?  Heavens no!  But the underlying ~ unwritten, nagging question at the back of everyone's mind is that gnawing cynical feeling of "if the Lab is this desperate for money ~ where is SL going to be in 3 years ~ in 5 years?"   No one has an answer for that.  While some have argued that this is due to the failure of Sansar, it could also just as easily be argued that the landscape of the entire world has changed and SL needs to adapt.  That the steps that are being taken are a good sign for the longevity of the platform.

 

I don't know which it is ~ but I sure hope it's the latter.  Too many good things come from SL for it to vanish quietly into the crevices of the forgotten parts of the internet.

I am not a troll. Here we go with the thing I was talking about. I am not trolling anyone. I am stating my opinions on this topic, just as you are. And you can slice it anyway you want, but Second Life is not a necessity for anyone. To say such a thing is just silly. Water is necessity, breathing is a necessity. SL is not a necessity. And I agree with much of the rest of what you said btw.

Edited May 31, 2019 by NonVoxSedVotum

[Fyrebird Courier]

many people have told me they could not use a prepaid c/c.  and if you don't have a bank...well, you are limited.

[Grumpity Linden]

7 hours ago, jmanque said:

Flash! Sighting Linden Lab’s new limits on offline messages and group memberships Microsoft and Google have just announced that Hotmail and Gmail will reduce the number of messages in any mailbox to 15 for non-premium users. They said it’s incredibly difficult to send text characters over the internet and storage costs are going up with the increased price of 5.25 inch floppy discs, and they wish they’d gotten into full motion 3 dimensional virtual worlds which are so much easier to operate. Wait... wait... correction. They didn’t 😀

In order to make the Gmail business model viable, the contents of your messages are used to better advertise to you.  We are thoroughly completely entirely unwilling to go that route. 

but thanks, that gave me a good laugh