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Grumpity Linden

A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

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1 minute ago, DonnaCasta said:

i dont think basics have stipend tho, right ?

Depends on how old they are. I do get the 50Ls on this account but any account created after a certain date in 2009 (I think it was) do not get any stipend to my knowledge. A couple of my other accounts are not as old as this one and do not get stipends. Which has never made me happy, of course.

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3 minutes ago, Asadora Summers said:

No basic account holders do not have a stipend. 

Some do depending on the age of the account.

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23 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

We are working on the Events feature (https://events.secondlife.com/), not actually making changes to resident-run shopping or other events inworld :) - Although hopefully the improvements to the feature will improve the running and publicizing of said events. 

how about fixing this one https://gyazo.com/3688c8c315c68e97f8fdb8e81a58ca47...i have only been asking you to fix it about 6 or 8 months now ...there is much more events posted than 25 in the next 24 hours...

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Has Linden labs taken into consideration that there are many Basic users that spend more than premium members do in a day, verses their monthly fee? Basic users that spend that much should get the same privileges when that is the case.

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Well. i am just preparing for the  next financial shoe to drop. I keep getting this sick feeling that after the birthday they will increase the cost to buy lindens,,,,,,, i just feel it  ,,,, like the far away storm  gathering up steam ,,,,,, so we will see.  

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Posted (edited)

Please take into account the fees LL actually charges. it's not just the 2,5 % that now will be 5%. if you sell an item on MP, you pay 5% to LL, then you want to convert your LS to US, where LL takes another 3.5 %. THEN you want to cash out where LL would take another 2.5% which is now going to be 5%. So doing some math here.. this is not "just" 5% . Not to mention other fees that apply , be it membership or wanting to rent to be even able to sell things inworld.

Don't forget if you are from another country, 3.5% plus the conversion rate. It's gonna be expensive for content creators. And if you live in the EU, then add VAT to that. Things can get expensive for creators outside the US.

I am a creator and I rely completely on my SL income to pay bills, rent, buy food, etc. As an example say I withdraw $1000 USD - at the moment my fee is around $25 USD, but this will increase to $50 USD each time I withdraw money. That is a food bill for a week just gone.

This will kill SL, we work hard, we make SL, and still we gotta pay LL more.

 

Edited by Janire Coba
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4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Some do depending on the age of the account.

Mmhmm that's true - depends on when one's rezz day is. Before I went premium a few years ago, as a basic account holder, I had a stipend of 50L a week. Now with premium my stipend is 500L. However, if I downgrade back to basic account obvs, I'll lose the 500L stipend a week, but I will also not get my 50L stipend back - I will be stipend-less. 

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1 minute ago, Janire Coba said:

Please take into account the fees LL actually charges. it's not just the 2,5 % that now will be 5%. if you sell an item on MP, you pay 5% to LL, then you want to convert your LS to US, where LL takes another 3.5 %. THEN you want to cash out where LL would take another 2.5% which is now going to be 5%. So doing some math here.. this is not "just" 5% . Not to mention other fees that apply , be it membership or wanting to rent to be even able to sell things inworld.

Don't forget if you are from another country, 3.5% plus the conversion rate. It's gonna be expensive for content creators. And if you live in the EU, then add VAT to that. Things can get expensive for creators outside the US.

I am a creator and I rely completely on my SL income to pay bills, rent, buy food, etc. As an example say I withdraw $1000 USD - at the moment my fee is around $25 USD, but this will increase to $50 USD each time I withdraw money. That is a food bill for a week just gone.

This will kill SL, we work hard, we make SL, and still we gotta pay LL more.

 

I agree, wholeheartedly.

The increase of Premium fee is perfectly fine, and honestly, I was expecting this to happen long ago.

The increase of cashout fee is completely unfair though. If Second Life has an economy, it's also because content creators spend time and effort to create beautiful content that keeps LL customers operational in their platform.

Many people are making a living off SL, and it's not the right decision to simply remove a chunk of their earned profit. 

I have seen benefits being mentioned, but, what is their beneficial extent? We have new Linden Homes, yet their number is limited, and most of Premium Subscribers still are waiting for one, Animesh in their current state, are excessively primy objects, more groups isn't a big deal at the moment. 

People (yes, we are real people) like Janire are the reason why this fee increase is completely not justified. Janire has been using her SL income to help others in RL, to ensure stray animals would find a home, and now, part of this might not be possible anymore, for some hard-to-explain reason.

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13 hours ago, Milena Coy said:

Is this really the right decision? Wouldn’t it bring more income for LL to quit the Basic Membership? Aren’t we all interested in a faster (and more reliable) development? Do we really need thousands of never used accounts or ever-noob avatars with empty profiles and no payment info? I know: Some people don’t have a lot of money, and also as a free member they are a nice and important part of the community. But when they are in SL for a long time, is SL really not worth a small fee? For example a fee of 1 US$ for each month you log in. If you don’t login in a month, no fee is charged. So no monthly plan, but a fee depending on your logins. Users could fill a „purse“ of their account in steps of 5 or 10 US$ and the first login in a month would reduce the purse credit by 1 US$. I think everyone could pay this and it would be a way to make land more affordable. Premium members with annual plan have to pay 37,5% more now, do we want this? These are the people who already pay for their SL. And all the designers who create the content we like have to pay a doubled fee now when they want to withdraw their earnings to real life. Do we want this? These are the people who mainly make SL and our avatars look like it is now. So should the people who already pay even pay more? Or better everyone (!) pays a bit? People who never pay need (and expect) that other people pay, so they are able use SL for free - often for years. Is this right? Should this be supported for ever? Shouldn’t LL find a way that the paying and creating people don’t need to pay more and more?

(Yes, I know. SL needs new users and new users never wanna pay without testing. So give them a free month.)

Payment isn’t the problem of SL for getting (keeping!) new users. The reason they don’t return is that SL is too complicate for new users. 1000 settings of the viewer. LL viewer or Firestorm? Default avatar? Or wearing (!) a mesh body and a separated mesh head? Oh, then the default avatar is hidden. So also your skin is hidden. Hopefully you find the same skin applier for body and head or you manage how to edit the tone. Understanding alpha layers. Even different when using the mesh body HUD. Oh forgot: Hands and feet are separate mesh parts too. So buy correct shoes or they won’t match. Yes, there are different mesh generations - rigged, unrigged. No, forget sculpties, they are outdated like so many things here. Different textures for mesh. No, you can’t create mesh with the viewer tools. Yes, you can create system clothes with the viewer. But don’t do it, yes smartass, it’s outdated. Wearing system clothes, mesh clothes or use an applier HUD for textures? Wear or add objects or need applier? Different mesh systems for hair (don’t use system hair, silly. Just wear a base. Well, that’s a bald of ... ok, sorry, of the system hair.) and especially for apparel. Found a cheap mesh body? Cool! Oh, didn’t find clothes for it? Haha, yes. Omega (Kit? Applier? Relay HUD? Huh?) may work. But you need to buy the right one. “Soon” (tm) we will have Bakes on Mesh, again changing a lot. Open a box? Well, just click it. Oh, or you need to drag (“rezz”, wut?) it to the ground. Not allowed? You need permission for this. Why? Where? How? Why I am shaking my arms like a bird while I am standing? Haha, silly noob AO. Oh, what’s an AO? - And all this is only the start. Still not learned about inventory, outfits and other UI parts, object permissions, maturity ratings, land allowance (buy and/or monthly fee, mainland and private is different), complicated group functions (deed?), gestures, scripts, building, music/media, offline restrictions and much more. How can I find people with the same interests? The search mainly leads me to “sex”-places or “clubs”, no matter what I am looking for, because keyword-spamming rules. And btw: Inworld help you get at user driven support regions or in user groups (Firestorm for example), not driven my LL. So maybe somewhere there the problem is “hidden”, why most of new users never return or give up soon? Because SL grew in steps as it did and never was simplified the whole concept of SL is grumpy now. Rebuild it, simplify it, courageously kick old content and structures.

THIS IS GOLD !!

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34 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

Why not move out of California? Move to Texas, or Nevada. No state income tax there. How about off shoring some of your labor to India? Or how about Nigeria? You can employ 10 workers in one of those countries, for the price of one employee in California. This would be for support, and something like the G team.

I also think that everybody should boycott the market place, for 90, to 120 days. Buy nothing on the market place, and don't visit the market place web site.

Linden Lab needs to move out of San Francisco.

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Move to Delaware   no sales tax and all the  banks and credit card companies  are the  major employers in Delaware !!!!!! SO it  would be a win  win  .... 

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43 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

How about off shoring some of your labor to India? Or how about Nigeria? You can employ 10 workers in one of those countries, for the price of one employee in California. This would be for support, and something like the G team.

Yay! Sweatshop labour for the win!

So what if some currently being paid a living wage, with basic benefits such as health care, lose their jobs in the US, to be replaced by pieceworkers who require no benefits or labour rights!

I NEED MY 7 GROUP SLOTS!!!

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18 minutes ago, Asadora Summers said:

Mmhmm that's true - depends on when one's rezz day is. Before I went premium a few years ago, as a basic account holder, I had a stipend of 50L a week. Now with premium my stipend is 500L. However, if I downgrade back to basic account obvs, I'll lose the 500L stipend a week, but I will also not get my 50L stipend back - I will be stipend-less. 

I honestly am not sure if you wouldn't get the 50Ls again. Just as I am not sure if I ever did get what was my premium back if I would get the 500Ls I used to get on it. I think I remember reading somewhere that you do but I'm probably wrong. Not really up to chasing that down today.

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13 minutes ago, Therese Tammas said:

Does anyone know why LL eliminated the quarterly membership tier for new members?? Ugh...soon they will also get rid of it for exhisting quarterlies

I was not in the decision making or testing loop for that decision at all, and I haven't asked around of the people who were, so I can't speak with any authority on the subject. What I can tell you about is a friend of mine who started a small subscription business, who observed that after the discount she was giving for annual users she still made more money per month off those users because of the fixed portion of the credit card processing fees she had to pay for monthly subscribers.

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I honestly am not sure if you wouldn't get the 50Ls again. Just as I am not sure if I ever did get what was my premium back if I would get the 500Ls I used to get on it. I think I remember reading somewhere that you do but I'm probably wrong. Not really up to chasing that down today.

you get 300L a week now if you cancel and then redo premium its at the new rate not old

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Posted (edited)

I think that the idea of an added premium is a good one, with a twist that will either have me beaten in the square or somewhat agreed with...

Premium lite  3.00 usd monthly

50 groups nothing else added

Here is the killer part

You must have a premium account to sell on marketplace - lite or higher

This would decrease theft, overloading of gacha reselling that is illegal copies of content, stop fake full perms accounts selling empty boxes claiming to be well known products. It would also clean out old content with no active sellers. Giving a few months notice for people to get on board. No longer would creators have to watch people getting cash grabs off of their work unable to flag or dmca. It would mean they have to sign up with rl info like the rest of us.

______________________________________

As mentioned earlier land groups to add people to just get access if able to add by notecard to land settings, could also be an option with always allowed, just easier to add, then a new land option of can always rez, again removing the ability of a group for designers in an event.

Removing people from groups is slow and tedious, but if a pay group you are actually opening yourself up to abuse if you do, so some are loathe to try, thus meaning free to join groups are the groups that will get dropped, costing those businesses in the long run, and their reaction may be to start charging to compete, thus more group hogging. 

 

 

Edited by Sasy Scarborough
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8 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I honestly am not sure if you wouldn't get the 50Ls again. Just as I am not sure if I ever did get what was my premium back if I would get the 500Ls I used to get on it. I think I remember reading somewhere that you do but I'm probably wrong. Not really up to chasing that down today.

Premium accounts created or upgraded from basic:

  • On or after November 1, 2006 receive L$300 per week.
  • Between July 21, 2006 and November 1, 2006 receive L$400 per week.
  • Before July 21, 2006 receive L$500 per week.

Certain old basic accounts get a stipend; basic accounts created

  • Before June 6, 2006 receive a stipend of L$50 per week, if they log in that week.
  • After June 6, 2006 do not receive a weekly stipend.

Source: 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Sweet Valentine said:

you get 300L a week now if you cancel and then redo premium its at the new rate not old

Except I didn't cancel. Way back when Lee Linden was still an employee there was a problem when LL switched credit card processing companies that led to gift cards (like AmerExpress, Visa, MC, not the fly-by-nights) no longer being accepted because LL forgot to make them a part of the process. Well... since Lee was unwilling to help me out I ended up not being able to pay for my account and they cut off access. 

There was one Linden who did try to help after Lee got abusive and hung up on me. Unfortunately for me, what she could do wasn't quite enough to save my account, just kept it from being overdrawn. That was Cin Linden. I was so sad when she left LL.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I honestly am not sure if you wouldn't get the 50Ls again. Just as I am not sure if I ever did get what was my premium back if I would get the 500Ls I used to get on it. I think I remember reading somewhere that you do but I'm probably wrong. Not really up to chasing that down today.

I've received a 50L stipend since starting (2005) and have gone premium and cancelled. I still get my 50L stipend when I don't have a premium account, and 300L when I do. I didn't go premium for the first time until after the stipend changes.

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You are making a Big Mistake leave the groups alone for basic and just add the groups to premium and add more benefits to premium. We all lose when you do this to your costumers. Some worst practices will hurt a lot of people think twice please.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Sasy Scarborough said:

You must have a premium account to sell on marketplace - lite or higher

Why are people doing their best to keep me from being able to revive my SL business?  What did I ever do to anyone to deserve this kind of ostracization/punishment?

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Jessyka Richard said:

I've received a 50L stipend since starting (2005) and have gone premium and cancelled. I still get my 50L stipend when I don't have a premium account, and 300L when I do. I didn't go premium for the first time until after the stipend changes.

That's kind of what I'm remembering. The difference being that if the account was created before those changes then you get the 500L. Shoot, I'd be happy with the 300Ls if I could afford premium.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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11 hours ago, Blueberryxx said:

I appreciate that this is a privately owned company, and you guys don't realistically owe us a thing. But I still have hope in my heart and again, respectfully, in good faith, would like you guys to reconsider this one.

Uhm, tho i agree with you it's privately owned yes, but who makes SL the way it looks ?  Users.  So in some way, they kinda do owe us something.  Without users putting money and creating content, would there be a SL ?

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5 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Why are people doing their best to keep me from being able to revive my SL business?  What did I ever do to anyone to deserve this kind of ostracization/punishment?

If they put this into practice in the next three months from this date... even with the 3 month warning, I will personally sponsor your store with premium lite at 3.00 a month for your first 6 months, it would be worth it.

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