A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[Grumpity Linden]

UPDATE:  We have heard your feedback. There will be no change to group limits for basic accounts: https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/2559-group-limits-update-no-changes-for-basic-members/

OP:

_____

Hi! This started out as a brief clarification on some things causing confusion, and has turned into a long bullet-point list.  Rather than replying to the numerous threads on the forums, I'm going to try to put it all together here.  As long as the conversation remains civil, I'll do my best to respond to questions. Please point the pitchforks away from my eyes though...  

• Land prices:  Full estates get ~$20/mo reduction in price. For the first time we are also reducing GF/BD region pricing.  This is not a frivolous gift to the 1%. This has real and proven effects on the rents many more pay. 
   
• Premium prices are going up on June 24.  Starting June 3 and until June 24,  Premium accounts have 3 weeks to pre-pay an additional cycle of premium at the old rates.  Best deal is, of course, prepaying for annual regardless of your current level. We hope you can take advantage of it. If you’re paying quarterly today, you can continue as quarterly. We will no longer offer it to new premium signups.  With the new prices, VAT will be charged on monthly and quarterly but not annual (of course only in the countries where VAT applies).
   
• We looked. We hadn’t raised premium prices in the history of premium prices in SL. Crazy! A lot of value has been added to premium over the last few years (new Linden Homes, double tier, reduced mainland prices, premium access, more offline IMs, more transaction history, more groups, more animesh, experiences, and yet more to come) and we are raising prices to reflect that.   

• We’re not lowering limits out of spite, groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools.  This subject alone is worth a novel liberally sprinkled with tears. So anyway, we don’t hate basic users, and in fact we work hard to retain our free-to-play offering as one of the most generous across many industries. But yes, no big surprise, we do want to nudge active residents to become subscribers, because we think it’s a great value, and - as many have noted - we’re also running a business. But no, we're not shutting our doors to non-premium residents. Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.  

• Fees to process credit are going up, effective June 24.  L$ buy fees are not. Yes, this is another step in rebalancing the economy.  It’s also the right step, because the regulatory climate has evolved dramatically since SL first started out, and in order to continue to offer a platform for creators to actually make money, we have a lot of ongoing work to keep up with those regulations. Compliance is generally no fun (shh don’t tell our compliance people I said so - they’re wonderful and actually think it’s fun!) but it keeps all of us in business and the bad guys out. If we weren't doing this work, we would literally have to stop offering the ability to process credit. 

• We’re making lasting investments into SL in infrastructure, features, and content.  While we set aside some special morsels only for premium members, the work we are doing benefits everyone - region crossings, attachment reliability, marketplace improvements, inventory stability, land auctions - are just a few examples.  No one project will please all of our residents, but we make an effort to address the needs of all communities in turn. We can’t get everything done immediately, but we’re focused and determined to keep SL successful and evolving. It’s a unique and thriving world we work hard to support. 

Look, this is obviously a bitter pill.  We can't keep slashing land prices at the rate we did last year.  We can’t raise other prices and yet keep everyone happy.  But we sincerely believe this is the best path forward - and hope you will come around too. 

P.S. we haven't given up on Last Names either.  

Edited June 1, 2019 by Grumpity Linden
added link to blog with group limit update

[Shauna Greymoon]

1 minute ago, Grumpity Linden said:

We’re not lowering limits out of spite, groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools.

Will there be anything in place to make the loss of all those slots easier for us? It's a big loss socially, commercially, etc...

[Grumpity Linden]

Just now, Shauna Greymoon said:

Will there be anything in place to make the loss of all those slots easier for us? It's a big loss socially, commercially, etc...

We're open to suggestions, quite seriously.  One project currently in progress is an update to Events.  Hopefully by making events more useable, some of the group functionality can be absorbed there.  

[Evangeline Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

... Please point the pitchforks away from my eyes though...  

...Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.  

 

Lol The levity is much appreciated 😀. I still think one way forward would be to have different levels of premium from a very cheap one with limited perks to higher ones with more perks. At the lower end you might well get people signing up cos it's not so expensive whereas they wouldn't have joined before, so more income for LL.  Or have add on perks that you could choose to pay for, so you have a more customised subscription package. That might be more useful for more people.

[Bebe Bunny]

Are there unspoken plans for SL in general and Premium accounts?

It's true that the past couple years or a bit more I have seen way more changes to SL than my entire lifetime here, which is great. I really wish people started giving it attention again, most I seen on the internet seem surprised to know SL still exists.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Sylvannas Zulaman

[BelindaN]

Whatever happens goung forward, please don't drive me out of here!

I have such a good time with my two alts, and although I couldn't contemplate three premium accounts, I do keep contemplating a premium for my main.

In the meantime, I'm buying for three, and spending way more than I should, so I do feel that I'm paying my way here.

The group thing goes over my head. I'm in a few groups but its never been a big thing for me.

 

[Fannie Parkin]

10 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Hi! This started out as a brief clarification on some things causing confusion, and has turned into a long bullet-point list.  Rather than replying to the numerous threads on the forums, I'm going to try to put it all together here.  As long as the conversation remains civil, I'll do my best to respond to questions. Please point the pitchforks away from my eyes though...  

• Land prices:  Full estates get ~$20/mo reduction in price. For the first time we are also reducing GF/BD region pricing.  This is not a frivolous gift to the 1%. This has real and proven effects on the rents many more pay. 
   
• Premium prices are going up on June 24.  Starting June 3 and until June 24,  Premium accounts have 3 weeks to pre-pay an additional cycle of premium at the old rates.  Best deal is, of course, prepaying for annual regardless of your current level. We hope you can take advantage of it. If you’re paying quarterly today, you can continue as quarterly. We will no longer offer it to new premium signups.  With the new prices, VAT will be charged on monthly and quarterly but not annual (of course only in the countries where VAT applies).
   
• We looked. We hadn’t raised premium prices in the history of premium prices in SL. Crazy! A lot of value has been added to premium over the last few years (new Linden Homes, double tier, reduced mainland prices, premium access, more offline IMs, more transaction history, more groups, more animesh, experiences, and yet more to come) and we are raising prices to reflect that.   

• We’re not lowering limits out of spite, groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools.  This subject alone is worth a novel liberally sprinkled with tears. So anyway, we don’t hate basic users, and in fact we work hard to retain our free-to-play offering as one of the most generous across many industries. But yes, no big surprise, we do want to nudge active residents to become subscribers, because we think it’s a great value, and - as many have noted - we’re also running a business. But no, we're not shutting our doors to non-premium residents. Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.  

• Fees to process credit are going up, effective June 24.  L$ buy fees are not. Yes, this is another step in rebalancing the economy.  It’s also the right step, because the regulatory climate has evolved dramatically since SL first started out, and in order to continue to offer a platform for creators to actually make money, we have a lot of ongoing work to keep up with those regulations. Compliance is generally no fun (shh don’t tell our compliance people I said so - they’re wonderful and actually think it’s fun!) but it keeps all of us in business and the bad guys out. If we weren't doing this work, we would literally have to stop offering the ability to process credit. 

• We’re making lasting investments into SL in infrastructure, features, and content.  While we set aside some special morsels only for premium members, the work we are doing benefits everyone - region crossings, attachment reliability, marketplace improvements, inventory stability, land auctions - are just a few examples.  No one project will please all of our residents, but we make an effort to address the needs of all communities in turn. We can’t get everything done immediately, but we’re focused and determined to keep SL successful and evolving. It’s a unique and thriving world we work hard to support. 

Look, this is obviously a bitter pill.  We can't keep slashing land prices at the rate we did last year.  We can’t raise other prices and yet keep everyone happy.  But we sincerely believe this is the best path forward - and hope you will come around too. 

P.S. we haven't given up on Last Names either.  

THUNDEROUSLY APPLAUDS! I totally appreciate it!  There is a step more to do AS SOON AS POSSIBLE: two levels of premium! a lower and cheaper one(40, 50 US$ per year)  and a higher one (90 or more per year) with more abilities (for example the ability to process credit).  And don't forget the last name! We are still waiting for it!

[Grumpity Linden]

Just now, Sylvannas Zulaman said:

Are there unspoken plans for SL in general and Premium accounts?

Yes.  We are, in the background sekritly planning for the end of SL in general and ... um ... basic accounts in particular ...until only the Premiums remain? Does that sound right? I may have mixed things up, it's late, but you get the gist.  

Seriously, we've tried very hard to be as transparent as possible about our plans.  I don't know if there's anything specific you have in mind that we've left unspoken

 

[ananoelle]

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

 P.S. we haven't given up on Last Names either.  

And the little girl waits lol 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

And his comment about credit fees, it is going UP. At our RL bar the credit/debit machine vendor just upped the fees for swiping cards.
 

The suggestion of a mid level tear might be an idea, more group spaces, but limited land ownership.

[Crim Mip]

As far as raising the premium prices, I'm not upset or surprised. I'm actually more surprised it's taking so long. I think the timing stinks though. They should have gone up prior to or at the same time as the new Linden Homes were released out into the wild. As it is, there are going to be people feeling like they are getting bait and switched and not entirely without cause. You've been doing so well making premium worth getting for a lot of people who hadn't had premium accounts before and in one badly timed move, you're wrecking a lot of that good will.

I know groups have been a problem, but you don't encourage basic members to go premium by cutting a basic mainstay in SL that drastically. You will encourage people to leave doing that though. I guess that would also lower the strain on the servers. Better yet, fix the stupid code! We've heard repeatedly that it's hard and would be lot of hours of dev time. At least it would be for something people use instead of something like cough...cough..pathfinding...cough. Group function is pretty much the one legacy thing in SL that is pretty much just as crappy now as it was 10 years ago. Also, why add more groups to premium if it's an issue? 60 was more than many of us use as it was. If you'd really wanted to make it more attractive, another raise of the land allowance would have been nice. People who get a usable size parcel often find they want more and hey another 1024 is only another $7 a month with half of that coverd by the stipend. 

As for the sim prices going down, wonderful! Want to get a bunch of people and groups buying them? Cut the setup fees. There's no good reason it should cost what it does to transfer ownership and change the name of an existing sim. Does anyone other than LL themselves even create totally new sims anymore? Charge the equivalent of a month tier to do a transfer, rename, and move of location (combined, not for each) and I promise you'd have a LOT more people buying and keeping sims long term. As it is, the initial hit for doing that is just prohibitive for a lot of people. I know the group I'm part of that holds land on the mainland for our homes and some nice build areas would jump at a reduced price estate if the setup were reasonable. We already pay within $40 of that now for tier.

[Milena Coy]

Why there is a difference with VAT depending on the plan? No VAT when annual, VAT when monthly or quarterly. Why this difference?

[bigmoe Whitfield]

13 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

And his comment about credit fees, it is going UP. At our RL bar the credit/debit machine vendor just upped the fees for swiping cards.
 

The suggestion of a mid level tear might be an idea, more group spaces, but limited land ownership.

Visa just went up to 6.5% on our terminal,  mastercard went to 3.3% and discover we stopped taking lol.

[ErikMouse Dawid]

41 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.

Not to mention there are rumors that all these changes are somehow connected to what is going on and going wrong with Sansar.

[Grumpity Linden]

Just now, ErikMouse Dawid said:

Not to mention there are rumors that all these changes are somehow connected to what is going on and going wrong with Sansar.

If I told you those rumors were not based in reality, would it help put out the rumors or only pour more oil into the fire? In any case, the truth is that those rumors are not based in reality.  

 

[Fox Wijaya]

21 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Yes.  We are, in the background sekritly planning for the end of SL in general and ... um ... basic accounts in particular ...until only the Premiums remain? Does that sound right? I may have mixed things up, it's late, but you get the gist. 

what i remember it's only premium Leagcy accounts remain and get their own sim for free?

[Fannie Parkin]

6 minutes ago, ErikMouse Dawid said:

Not to mention there are rumors that all these changes are somehow connected to what is going on and going wrong with Sansar.

ohhh yes! Sansar....now i remember it! *mischievous smile*

[Fox Wijaya]

2 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

what i remember it's only premium Leagcy accounts remain and get their own sim for free?

but more serious .. i think "grandfathering" the quarterly subscription isn't a good idea, also the raise in combination with the re addition of VAT will hit some residents quite hard.
Changes are understandble, and however i'm mostly one that pulls the brakes, i can't deal with changes too well, these new ones won't cost the average resident more than a cup of coffee.  I'm no creator or store owner, but think they might have some ideas about the 5% ..  🤯

[Grumpity Linden]

In service of transparency, I'm declaring that sleep is in order. I am hoping to find a civil and friendly conversation here in the morning! Also, a pony. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

5 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

In service of transparency, I'm declaring that sleep is in order. I am hoping to find a civil and friendly conversation here in the morning! Also, a pony. 

Sleep got reduced due to brain load. :) Great dreams!

[Cindy Evanier]

5 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

In service of transparency, I'm declaring that sleep is in order. I am hoping to find a civil and friendly conversation here in the morning! Also, a pony. 

i heard the pony creators banned distribution until they get a last name 

[WillowTenage]

Well.. I was ready to grab my pitchfork, and torch.. but then.. 

 

 

Pony.  

I forget, was I angry about something?

[Mollymews]

2 minutes ago, Grumpity Linden said:

Also, a pony. 

i am still waiting for the LL devs to deliver the LSL function llGetPony(PONY_RAINBOW | PONY_MAGIC|PONY_AWESOME)

which has been on my list since forever. Guess you are waiting too 😛

[Cackle Amore]

I do wonder though, did premium REALLY need 10 more group slots at expense of basic? Was 60 really not enough?

[Kadah Coba]

Let me buy-down and I will use the unpoisoned and not-on-fire pitchfork instead. :V

1 hour ago, Grumpity Linden said:

We’re not lowering limits out of spite, groups really are quite a strain on our back end for a variety of painful historical reasons, including overloading group functionality instead of having other tools.  This subject alone is worth a novel liberally sprinkled with tears. So anyway, we don’t hate basic users, and in fact we work hard to retain our free-to-play offering as one of the most generous across many industries. But yes, no big surprise, we do want to nudge active residents to become subscribers, because we think it’s a great value, and - as many have noted - we’re also running a business. But no, we're not shutting our doors to non-premium residents. Rumors of our insanity and villainy have been slightly exaggerated.  

Should have lead with that in the original post. I know what I say has little weight with other residents, but I will still add that the group backend is really taxed. Many-to-many instant message chat on the scale SL does is not an easy feat, and it's only something recent new chat platforms have managed to overcome with the power of massive distributed computing. (On that note, SL should add Discord support :V)
Maybe the new Basic group limit should have applied to new residents. Or maybe at least promise that when the group backend gets its long past-due overhaul, Basic will get its 42 back.