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3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If a landlord is offering less than that, they won't be in business very long

unless it's a big one and has reduced maintenance fee in the Atlas program.
( about what we officially nothing know about, by the strict NDA...but i'm pretty sure the oldies heared that name before )

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10 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

You spend a thousand every couple months to play in virtual land?...... Really?... I can barely admit I still play this game after all these years and there are users out there that spend a thousand every couple months?    I cant even get my hands on a Bellissario houseboat after 4 months of waiting.... Do you really think this game is worth your 4 grand a year?  sorry .. I do not buy it.

Mea culpa... that was two months ago so I have no idea what I was thinking when I typed that, but it absolutely should have been hundreds, not thousands. I'd love to have the budget for that, but nope. 

Regardless, though, why can you barely admit to still being a resident of SL? Why do something you're ashamed of? My friends, family, coworkers, etc., know SL is a big part of my life. They may not understand it - really, no one who isn't a residence understands it - but they respect me enough to know if it's something I enjoy, then it must be something beyond most people's impressions of SL from the media. 

Do I think SL is worth $4,000/year? It's hard to put a price on the friendships I've made over the years but honestly, yeah, I think I would value it at $4K at a minimum. Really, they're priceless. 

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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Mea culpa... that was two months ago so I have no idea what I was thinking when I typed that, but it absolutely should have been hundreds, not thousands. I'd love to have the budget for that, but nope. 

Regardless, though, why can you barely admit to still being a resident of SL? Why do something you're ashamed of? My friends, family, coworkers, etc., know SL is a big part of my life. They may not understand it - really, no one who isn't a residence understands it - but they respect me enough to know if it's something I enjoy, then it must be something beyond most people's impressions of SL from the media. 

Do I think SL is worth $4,000/year? It's hard to put a price on the friendships I've made over the years but honestly, yeah, I think I would value it at $4K at a minimum. Really, they're priceless. 

Ok .. fingers slip .. we all get excited about Second Life.. I mean a million of us are still active users after all these years so something is right with SL. But its the slow as molasses changeover that frustrates me. The new continents of Bellissario were discussed/hinted at more than a year ago  and we are STILL waiting for completion.  3 years ago it was announced that most resources and staff were being allocated to Sansar VR platform... we were all toting SL 2 and hoping we could transfer our belongings and creations along with our avi's...now where has that gone? None of us are scrambling to buy VR headsets and massive PC's to run them. So it is bad choices that the lindens are making that sets us back year after year.

  I can play a fast paced shoot em up video game with the most amazing graphics ever but cant get my avi transported to another sim without a major freeze up and eventual crash. I understand they are different platforms but come on .. we are shelling out all this cash ( And now they want more for premium ) every year for essentially a virtual social network that cannot even allow a boat to cross sims easily without epic fail. A lot of people here shower linden with accolades for every small step forward they make while forgetting the fact half the inventory they bought over the years has disappeared out of their cache without a clue. How many of you have empty folders lurking in the back of your inventory files. Start holding LL accountable for not moving forward fast enough and put down the hopeium pipe. 

Now I say this with tongue in cheek because truthfully if second life were to close down tomorrow I would grieve for the loss of one of the most important aspects of my life and my development for the last 14 years. The friends I have made ARE real.. The things I have learned have grown me as a person. I have taken on technical challenges I never would have imagined before SL and I am proud of that.  Now I just have to figure out a way to tell my boss that I really need sundays off because I DJ at this virtual club where people from around the world gather to dance and have gesture parties and show off the newest mesh clothing they found....nevermind... its easier just to say I am involved in this online networking thingy and he would not understand... So come on Patch.. put the fire to the moles and get those houseboats completed.. I know creators that can set up complete sims in a day.. why is it taking the moles so long to add a few plants and stop with the cooling tower nonsense.

Edited by Edwards Perry
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33 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

Ok .. fingers slip .. we all get excited about Second Life.. I mean a million of us are still active users after all these years so something is right with SL. But its the slow as molasses changeover that frustrates me. The new continents of Bellissario were discussed/hinted at more than a year ago  and we are STILL waiting for completion.  3 years ago it was announced that most resources and staff were being allocated to Sansar VR platform... we were all toting SL 2 and hoping we could transfer our belongings and creations along with our avi's...now where has that gone? None of us are scrambling to buy VR headsets and massive PC's to run them. So it is bad choices that the lindens are making that sets us back. Year after Year... I can play a fast paced shoot em up video game with the most amazing graphics ever but cant get my avi transported to another sim without a major freeze up and eventual crash. I understand they are different platforms but come on .. we are shelling out all this cash ( And now they want more for premium ) every year for essentially a virtual social network that cannot even allow a boat to cross sims easily without epic fail. A lot of people here shower linden with accolades for every small step forward they make while forgetting the fact half the inventory they bought over the years has disappeared out of their cache without a clue. How many of you have empty folders lurking in the back of your inventory files. Start holding LL accountable for not moving forward fast enough and put down the hopeium pipe.  Now I say this with tongue in cheek because truthfully if second life were to close down tomorrow I would grieve for the loss of one of the most important aspects of my life and my development for the last 14 years. The friends I have made ARE real.. The things I have learned have grown me as a person. I have taken on technical challenges I never would have imagined before SL and I am proud of that.  Now I just have to figure out a way to tell my boss that I really need sundays off because I DJ at this virtual club where people from around the world gather to dance and have gesture parties and show off the newest mesh clothing they found....nevermind... its easier just to say I am involved in this online networking thingy and he would not understand... So come on Patch.. put the fire to the moles and get those houseboats completed.. I know creators that can set up complete sims in a day.. why is it taking the moles so long to add a few plants and stop with the cooling tower nonsense.

Hmm... to start from the bottom, or the top? 

Oh, I like bottoms so I'll start there!

The Moles are working day and night, seven days a week, completing regions (not sims, right, @Patch Linden??) and releasing at least three new ones a week. We all know creators that can set up a region in a day. Hell, I can set up a region in a day. It would look like utter crap, though, and the reason people are so anxious to live on Bellisseria is precisely because it doesn't look like crap. Each region is individual and not cookie cutter, thank god. I wasn't a premium member at the time, but I understand from others that when the first LHs were released, there was a wait then, too. Not as long, perhaps, because they really were cut and paste jobs.

That doesn't even take into account the work that goes along with landscaping, decorating, and putting in the house/boat rezzers. Remember, it all also has to be tied into a database of some sort that then links it to the website release system. I'm not a technical whiz, but I do know that what happens behind the scenes is far more complicated than most people realize and appreciate. And it's not like they're at a stand still. They are working their asses off, and showing results as well. 

"Add a few plants"... whatever, dude. Let's see you do it. 

A lot of the problems that you seem to have are problems that I've never once encountered. I've been in SL for more than a decade and I've never lost my inventory. I almost think that's an urban legend. I know people who say it's happened to a friend of a friend, but have never actually met anyone that it happened to. I'm sure someone will be happy to correct me, though. 

I do a little rubber-banding when boating and it's annoying AF, but I am also aware that LL and the Moles are diligently working on that issue, too. You see, Bellisseria isn't their only task. There is an entire grid-worth of things they work on, fixing and updating, and upgrading. It's gonna take them a minute. 

When you also include that a lot of work they're doing is completely undoing work that was done by past LL employees and Moles and starting from the bottom up because it was poorly done the first time and utterly unable to be fixed, I have even more respect for what they're doing. I'm not going to hold the current CEO and employees responsible for the crap that happened before they even arrived. 

And, yes, I am going to give them accolades for taking the time to do things the correct way this time, even though it may not necessarily be the fast way. 

When Sansar was first mentioned years and years ago, for a brief moment everyone thought it was going to be SL 2.0 with the ability to move inventory. That was also abandoned years and years ago, even if that ever actually was the plan for Sansar, or if people just assumed it was the plan for Sansar. As for Sansar itself, I'm also not going to slam LL for trying something new. Businesses are supposed to come out with new products. Would I have rather they spent all their time and energy on SL? Sure. And hindsight is 20/20 as well. I logged into Sansar on the day it went live, and haven't gone back since. I'm not a creator, and from what I hear you still can't bang in Sansar so it's not for me. 

Lots of my favorite companies have products that aren't for me. I don't despise the company because I have no use for one single product. Is Sansar a failure? In my mind, with the limited knowledge I have of it, yes, it is. Failure is good. Failure is how we learn, and I have no doubt that LL has learned valuable lessons from Sansar. You call them "bad choices". I call it taking a chance, and yes, I support that in all walks of life. I would have never learned how to walk in the first place if I hadn't tripped and fallen a billion times when learning how to do it right.

So, all in all, no, I'm not going to hold LL accountable for moving too slowly. I'm going to continue supporting them for not moving too fast and making sure that this platform that I love is stable. 

But that's just me and anyone is free to feel however they want to feel. 

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2 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

the fact half the inventory they bought over the years has disappeared out of their cache without a clue. How many of you have empty folders lurking in the back of your inventory files.

In all the years I have been in SL that has never happened to me. And there is a fix for it. @Whirly Fizzle can help you with it. Or any of the FS support team members. There's even a page somewhere on the FS wiki for it.

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@Selene Gregoire..... I know the firestorm inventory cache clear trick ... still have multiple empty folders from older items I bought in the first few years of SL.. if you dont have any empty folders then perhaps you are a younger avi then me. But I respect your opinion and your fix info for users that have the problem and need to know the fix.

@Beth Macbain.. Sorry Beth .. I completely respect the time you put into the forums but ....Shift/Drag/Release.. its how every sim owner/Landlord sets up there control boxes... 

Remember that Linden labs supports the scripting and lays the land but its the users who generate and create the content.  The land is already there.. how long does it take to copy a few hundred trees and boats? They have been doing houses for years .. the scripting is already there... They should never have released Bellissaria if it was not large enough to cover every premium member who has paid the membership fees.. Now you have a slight few who have these great blogs about all the fun they are having with each other in Bellissaria....and the rest of us are still creeping around in tiny prim houses that no one wants..  feels like I was left out and I am not happy with LL about it. Only the few privileged members who were able to grab up the parcels are singing oh happy day. I do not even want to read their blogs or forums about all the parties and events they are having.. and dont say I am invited to those events cause without a house or houseboat .. I am an outsider looking in.

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28 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

@Selene Gregoire..... I know the firestorm inventory cache clear trick ... still have multiple empty folders from older items I bought in the first few years of SL.. if you dont have any empty folders then perhaps you are a younger avi then me. But I respect your opinion and your fix info for users that have the problem and need to know the fix.

I created this avatar in 2005. My first was in 2004. I've never had ny empty folders or folders stuck outside of Inventory but I sure have helped a lot of people who have in the over 5 years I was on the support team. Yes, I went there. 

I never mentioned inventory cache clear. Not even what I had in mind. This is a fix from before that trick. 

To each their own.

Enjoy SL. It's the only SL you've got.

Edited by Selene Gregoire
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@Lindal Kidd    Premium account at 99 a year and land rental of 250 a year for 4096sqm from LL....You can rent space on a privately owned sim for about 150 a year as opposed to LL's total cost with premium account of almost 350 a year. We have to look at the true cost of SL and stop making excuses for LL's inflated pricing. Sorry to be so negative but everyone is drinking the koolaid when it comes to what you are actually paying to play this game every year.

 

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5 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I created this avatar in 2005. My first was in 2004.

I never mentioned inventory cache clear. Not even what I had in mind. This is a fix from before that trick. 

To each their own.

Enjoy SL. It's the only SL you've got.

So there is a fix for inventory disappearing from our folders?

We must have a problem with disappearing inventory!

Voila!

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3 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

So there is a fix for inventory disappearing from our folders?

We must have a problem with disappearing inventory!

Voila!

Apparently you really don't want the issue fix. Far be it from me to push my help on someone who doesn't want it. Good day.

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8 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

@Lindal Kidd    Premium account at 99 a year and land rental of 250 a year for 4096sqm from LL....You can rent space on a privately owned sim for about 150 a year as opposed to LL's total cost with premium account of almost 350 a year. We have to look at the true cost of SL and stop making excuses for LL's inflated pricing. Sorry to be so negative but everyone is drinking the koolaid when it comes to what you are actually paying to play this game every year.

 

To most SL is a hobby, think its to expensive then don't participate it is totally your choice. Compared to most hobbies such as sports such like SL is an incredibly cheap one and you can participate at whatever expenditure level you are comfortable with. Try doing that with for example golf

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9 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

They should never have released Bellissaria if it was not large enough to cover every premium member who has paid the membership fees.. 

That's the wonderful thing about Marketing: everybody's an expert.

The new Linden Homes are nice, sure, but talk about a Kool-Aid overdose!

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10 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

We have to look at the true cost of SL and stop making excuses for LL's inflated pricing.

no we don't have to do that ... LL offers SL in multiple forms, subcriptions or free ... the real cost are of no concern of the users it's a business with a service, you'r totally free to use it or not. You also only pay 5k for your new car? because thats what it about really costs. Veggies in the store... cost 7 to 30 cts to buy from the farmer... but they sell it ten to a hundred times more expensive...you try to get those for the 7 cts? good luck.....
Don't want to pay? stay basic .. pick a subscription .. be quiet an play, not happy?... go basic or leave.

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10 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

So there is a fix for inventory disappearing from our folders?

We must have a problem with disappearing inventory!

Voila!

So instead of accepting help from someone who is offering her help purely because she likes to, you prefer being an ass about it?

We must be dealing with an $%#^$!

Voila!

 

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11 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

So there is a fix for inventory disappearing from our folders?

We must have a problem with disappearing inventory!

Voila!

You said clearing cache didn't work.
Try a different viewer to see if your inventory is missing on that viewer.
If your inventory is missing on the other viewer, contact Linden Lab support - they can run a script to check for inventory corruption & often they are able to recover missing inventory that doesn't display in any viewer because the inventory is corrupted.
https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000131009-contact-support

If your inventory is only missing in one particular viewer, contact the support team for that viewer for help.

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2 hours ago, Zeta Vandyke said:

So instead of accepting help from someone who is offering her help purely because she likes to, you prefer being an ass about it?

We must be dealing with an $%#^$!

Voila!

 

I did not need or ask for any help in my original posting.. I was expressing frustration for all the users that have missing inventory issues and the fact there was a need for a fix in the first place,  so thank you for correcting .. but it was not needed.

Also .. I never personally attacked anyone here in the thread so being called  'an $%#^$!  is probably going too far .. but I am a big boy....

All my recent criticism has been directed towards the premium price increases and the fact we are still waiting for big changes for everyone from this company. Some users said it should be expected that prices will increase because all prices increase eventually.. But LL is making money.... 75 million dollars a year for the last few years.. not losing anything at all.. Second life is a steady cash cow for LL and it makes no good sense to change it in any way for them .. That's just good business sense. 

To those who say SL is free, just go basic .. even basic accounts buy clothing and spend money to rent etc. a cut of that pair of virtual pants is going to LL for setting up the server space. 

I am only trying to open the dialogue that ALL OF US have said to each other almost every time we meet .. who among you has not complained about freezing up and crashing out on your way to a party?..  We all complain about SL to each other but here in the forums its all sweet and spice and everything nice... This is the place to let LL know what we need to keep coming back. Your not going to get that Bellisaria house by talking about how cute the moles are dancing around the unfinished regions...

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3 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no we don't have to do that ... LL offers SL in multiple forms, subcriptions or free ... the real cost are of no concern of the users it's a business with a service, you'r totally free to use it or not. You also only pay 5k for your new car? because thats what it about really costs. Veggies in the store... cost 7 to 30 cts to buy from the farmer... but they sell it ten to a hundred times more expensive...you try to get those for the 7 cts? good luck.....
Don't want to pay? stay basic .. pick a subscription .. be quiet an play, not happy?... go basic or leave.

That's the thing.... I do pay... quite a lot to play.. I am a premium holder.. I also pay for 4096sqm of land where I have a wonderful space... That does not include my spending in world and on MP for great mesh and to support creators and LL.. I do not want them to fail at all...I agree its a business and they want more profit... All I want is fairness for all premium account holders and not being able to claim a property in the new regions feels exclusive.. 

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13 hours ago, Edwards Perry said:

@Beth Macbain.. Sorry Beth .. I completely respect the time you put into the forums but ....Shift/Drag/Release.. its how every sim owner/Landlord sets up there control boxes... 

Remember that Linden labs supports the scripting and lays the land but its the users who generate and create the content.  The land is already there.. how long does it take to copy a few hundred trees and boats? They have been doing houses for years .. the scripting is already there... They should never have released Bellissaria if it was not large enough to cover every premium member who has paid the membership fees.. Now you have a slight few who have these great blogs about all the fun they are having with each other in Bellissaria....and the rest of us are still creeping around in tiny prim houses that no one wants..  feels like I was left out and I am not happy with LL about it. Only the few privileged members who were able to grab up the parcels are singing oh happy day. I do not even want to read their blogs or forums about all the parties and events they are having.. and dont say I am invited to those events cause without a house or houseboat .. I am an outsider looking in.

I'm not sure why people think I spend so much time on the forums. I really don't.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain that you're wrong about the Shift/Drag/Release method of setting up control boxes when it comes to building Bellisseria regions. Perhaps @Patch Linden, @Abnor Mole, or @Quartz Mole, in spite of being busy building said regions, might give us a small overview of the process. They aren't copying a few hundred trees and boats. As a matter of fact, they did an experiment recently with copying a region and plopping it down to see if it would work. It didn't, and they left it sitting there a few days to give residents a chance to stop by and see why it didn't work. Bellisseria is not a cut/paste job. If that's what you want, the old LHs should suit you quite well. Oh, you want the extra LI. Okay, sorry, you have to wait. 

As far as not releasing Bellisseria until it was completely finished, that's just, like, your opinion, man. Why should the rest of us have to wait when there are regions sitting there finished and ready to go? That's pretty selfish of you. And I don't think it's really that difficult anymore to get a house. You might have to put an hour or so into the effort, but the only real complaints I'm seeing right now are from people who keep catching and releasing them because they aren't in their ideal location. 

Also, if they'd released enough at once for every single premium member, Bellisseria would be a ghost town. Not everyone wants a home on Bellisseria. I believe there are something like 68,000 premium members. You really think they should have waited until they had 68,000 homes and boats, over half of which would never be claimed? Part of the fun of Bellisseria is that we have people close by. 

37 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

I am only trying to open the dialogue that ALL OF US have said to each other almost every time we meet .. who among you has not complained about freezing up and crashing out on your way to a party?..  We all complain about SL to each other but here in the forums its all sweet and spice and everything nice... This is the place to let LL know what we need to keep coming back. Your not going to get that Bellisaria house by talking about how cute the moles are dancing around the unfinished regions...

You don't really want an open dialogue, since you're categorically rejecting anything anyone says. You want to complain, and that's fine. There is a thread on the LH's forum specifically for venting. Have I complained when I've frozen or crashed? Of course. I also complain when I have to stand in line at the bank, or get stuck in a traffic jam. Depending on my mood, I might complain that the sky is too blue. Doesn't mean I expect the overlords of the universe to drop everything else to fix my issues immediately. I have to wait just like everyone else. 

Oh, and the Moles do look really adorable dancing around the unfinished regions. I'm happy they are enjoying themselves and it shows in how gorgeous the regions are! 


 

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47 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

I am only trying to open the dialogue that ALL OF US have said to each other almost every time we meet .. who among you has not complained about freezing up and crashing out on your way to a party?..  We all complain about SL to each other but here in the forums its all sweet and spice and everything nice... This is the place to let LL know what we need to keep coming back. Your not going to get that Bellisaria house by talking about how cute the moles are dancing around the unfinished regions...

No, we don't. You do not speak for me.   I do not have problems with freezing or crashing on the tater I'm using now or the one before or the one before, all the way back to my old 386 I started SL on. 

... Nah. People like you aren't worth wasting precious time on.

 

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39 minutes ago, Edwards Perry said:

All I want is fairness for all premium account holders and not being able to claim a property in the new regions feels exclusive.. 

for me it's not about fairness .. it's available at random, and to random people, i had a boat... left it after few weeks, had a house... left it faster than i got it... since then i'm more happy at my waterside hilltop, own chanel, and oceanview... unblockable because, after request two days ago, LL wants to sell me the whole hill... i dont need more  :)
There's so much more as the new regions.. the olds still work quite well too if you have the time to look around who and what the neighbours do.

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1 hour ago, Edwards Perry said:

All I want is fairness for all premium account holders and not being able to claim a property in the new regions feels exclusive.. 

I understand how you feel left out, however a transition is happening with the new Linden homes and so we can't have total fairness immediately. It's a complex process, and it's easy to think we know how the new homes should be rolled out, but as residents we can really only know part of what's going on behind the scenes.
In the meantime, you can increase your chances of getting a home by reading the Linden Homes section of the forum (you can learn a lot by reading all the threads in that section).  New releases are usually happening on Monday, Wednesday, & Friday during SL mornings and afternoons -- on each of those days turn on your auto-refresh and there's a good chance you'll snag a home.

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38 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I never said that. Please don't do that. Right now, for me, life is sucking green donkey balls.

Oops, no. YOU didn't. Sorry about that -- momentary forgetfulness about how this software works!

ETA: Fixed!

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oops, no. YOU didn't. Sorry about that -- momentary forgetfulness about how this software works!

ETA: Fixed!

Thanks. I even went back and looked to see if it was me. lol

That happens when you do the highlight to quote thing from a quoted post. It puts the wrong person's name on it. It's happened to me, Love and about 5 other people in the last 2 or 3 months. So I don't quote from within a quote anymore to avoid confusion. ;)

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