Jump to content
Chic Aeon

What would YOU do if you were Linden Lab?

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Yes it is, splitting space into bite sized units is a very scalable architecture.

Indeed it would be. Unfortunately a Second Life region is far from bite-sized - it's too big to be transmitted quickly, too small to represent a large open area and it's the only size the system recognizes. Simon Linden was trying to work out a way to allow different sized regions and found that the 256 by 256 meter size was embedded all over the code.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Indeed it would be. Unfortunately a Second Life region is far from bite-sized - it's too big to be transmitted quickly, too small to represent a large open area and it's the only size the system recognizes. Simon Linden was trying to work out a way to allow different sized regions and found that the 256 by 256 meter size was embedded all over the code.

It's a balancing act.

Too big and it's too many objects and too many avatars for a single server to handle.

Too small and it generates too many region crossings.

256 as a number also has many memory optimization advantages.

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

found that the 256 by 256 meter size was embedded all over the code.

There are a staggering number of assumptions like that in the SL code base, although I would guess region sizing isn't quite the madness that's holding up last names.

Edited by CoffeeDujour

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

There are a staggering number of assumptions like that in the SL code base, although I would guess region sizing isn't quite the madness that's holding up last names.

Varregions are after all, a thing on opensim.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

For all the multitudes know, this is just that one weird dating simulator where people have weird sex, or where you get youtube trolls.

Or, in other words "Everyone already hates SL so LL should not even bother trying to improve their business."

5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

In my example It wont be the thing that cheats and changes it's Li on the fly, it will be something the user rezzed weeks later that gets sent back.

Your example ignores the fact that we already have  a system that changes the LI cost of content. What you're suggesting is no different than saying Land Impact does not exist at all because I could script a mesh object to resize and get returned when it goes over the limit". To quote Milhouse, I dare you to make less sense.

5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Those other architectures are better designed, they are all actually designed, with planning and meetings.

 

9 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

The shores of the virtual Alang Beach are covered with the chopped-up hulks of virtual worlds that are better technically, better financed and/or cheaper than Second Life, and yet Second Life survives.

Those other platforms did not fail because "they are better designed", they fail because they lack features that have made SL relatively successful despite its shortcomings. Such as the robust avatar customization and the adult content. You're both making the "Ozone layer is depleting because there are fewer pirates" argument. Nothing I suggested removes any features from Second Life, you'd still be able to do everything you currently do in SL.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

Or, in other words "Everyone already hates SL so LL should not even bother trying to improve their business."

That's not what I'm saying.

48 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

Your example ignores the fact that we already have  a system that changes the LI cost of content. What you're suggesting is no different than saying Land Impact does not exist at all because I could script a mesh object to resize and get returned when it goes over the limit". To quote Milhouse, I dare you to make less sense.

 .. intent actually does matter.

48 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

Those other platforms did not fail because "they are better designed", they fail because they lack features that have made SL relatively successful despite its shortcomings. Such as the robust avatar customization and the adult content.

Blue Mars felt they had such good avatar creation, that's the only thing they kept.

Sansar is advertising "Come make your avatar" right now.

Entire virtual worlds dedicated to just humping avatars.

Open Sim and a dozen grids ripping off our entire dance routine forever for a fraction of the price.

 

Fortnight is a social DLC platform with a game stuck on the side, they just threw a concert watched by 10M people and are now being touted as the future of the metaverse.

https://www.wired.com/story/fortnite-marshmello-concert-vr-ar-multiverse/

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-47116429

 

Fiddling with avatar dress up rules and tinkering with VRAM use for the current render engine is not going to cut it, but it will universally hurt every one here either by writing off content they have bought, or inspiring technically worse content that manages to side step the limits.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh. When I dared you to make less sense I did not expect you to take it literally.

Look, I'm not going to debate arguments like "people will script their content to deliberately break, because of reasons", "Blue Mars execs thought their character creation was good, so it must have been amazing amazing enough to negate all the other stuff I'm ignoring because it doesn't fit my narrative" and "Fortnight held a concert and someone said this means it's the future of the metaverse, CHECKMATE GLOBEHEADS!". They're bad arguments for bad conclusions. I get enough of that when my mom posts politics on Facebook.

1 hour ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Fiddling with avatar dress up rules and tinkering with VRAM use for the current render engine is not going to cut it, but it will universally hurt every one here either by writing off content they have bought, or inspiring technically worse content that manages to side step the limits.

I specifically suggested a way they could push new content to be better optimized without forcing people to give up their old content. I stand by this. New content will replace old content gradually and naturally, like it always has, and LL can afford to take the long view on this.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2019 at 4:17 PM, Adam Spark said:

If I were Linden Lab:....

I would end the days of paying 4 figures a year for land. Linden Lab will tell you (cause they have said it already on these forums) that they couldn't reduce land costs as much as they did last year. In reality, they can do whatever they want. They could pay us to take their land tomorrow if they wanted to do it and make it work. What they are really saying is they think it would hurt their bottom line too much. Well, the volume of sales would skyrocket if land became available for 50 bucks a month with $99 startup fee, the number of people pulling out of land ownership for economic reasons would plummet, the amount of abandoned land polluting and devaluing the world would plummet, the amount of bad publicity due to rising costs elsewhere would plummet, land tier would plummet, more people could afford premium membership, and the community would just be a happier place. Hmmmm, are you sure you folks can't do that @Grumpity Linden? Do you really think there isn't a market for $50 a month regions that wouldn't match up with or surpass how things are today economically?...

It would be great if LL considered this. 

Land barons might start bellyaching about their profits nose-diving since a good number of tenants would more than likely abandon them in a heartbeat for the freedom of owning their own sim (it's just human nature).

But if LL's coffers started bursting at the seams and it drove an increase in the creation of businesses for almost everyone else, then not really seeing a down side. 

Surely something like that would be a massively attractive prospect for buying a premium membership?

I'm also thinking of all those sim owners who had to close their beautiful sims just because land tier became too burdensome (remember the stunningly beautiful Pandora? Even Calas Galadhon had to close a couple of their sims, among others)

A reduction like you suggest could well bring many of those sim owners back again, which would further boost SL's economy.

Heck, I'd even be willing to give up my stipend for a deal like that provided there were no restrictions on the full region I purchased (except for it's rating) - I'd much rather a full region to house my ever-expanding store (no, business isn't booming - I just keep running out of room - and eventually, prims).

Something like that would make the new $149 (AUD) for membership instead of the current $108 much more bearable.

I really like your idea, Adam. Except for the land barons, it seems like a win-win for everyone.

LL would have to be willing to take the risk, though, but if they were quick to flush $20m on a project almost no one ended up being interested in, then this seems far less like a 'risk' and more like 'money in the bank'.

There's no doubt a down side that someone will be quick to point out but for the life of me, I'm just not seeing any.

Edited by AnyaJurelle
grammar
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would replace 80 LL employees that work in California, with about 200 workers in India. Lets say the wage for each worker in India is paid $5,000.00 a year. Thats about $1,000,000.00 a year total. So LL would save $3,000,000.00 a year. Now they have increased the work force by 120 workers. Some of these could be the new G team. In 2010, LL had about 350 employees. Today they have about 245 employees. That is not enough workers. They need more workers. But that would cost more money if they don't layoff workers from the highest income areas. California is expensive to operate in. You have high taxes, and lots of regulations. So moving out of California, and moving to a no state income tax state, would save LL more money.

Next, they need to advertise. They advertise on the internet. But not on TV, or radio. A lot of people have never heard of SL. They need to also try to get companies to come to SL. Companies did come about 12 years ago, but most of those have left. What companies could do is offer free money. Coke could set up an island. Go there, click on a machine, and enter Coke codes from bottle caps. Then get 5 L$. Nike, and other companies could do the same. But they might offer 50 L$, to 200 L$. Every company that has a presence in SL, would then place codes on their products. Cereal could place the codes inside their boxes.

Try to bring back gambling, if possible. One way is to relocate the company head quarters, and servers to the Cayman Islands, or to Costa Rico. 

Have different levels of premium. Right now you can have only 10 pictures in your picts. Want more? Then you have to pay a higher fee. Want more than 70 groups? Then you have to pay a higher fee.

Want to own mainland, but don't want live support, or stipend? Then you pay a lower fee.

So If I was CEO of LL, I would do all the above.

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

I would replace 80 LL employees that work in California, with about 200 workers in India. Lets say the wage for each worker in India is paid $5,000.00 a year. Thats about $1,000,000.00 a year total. So LL would save $3,000,000.00 a year. Now they have increased the work force by 120 workers. Some of these could be the new G team. In 2010, LL had about 350 employees. Today they have about 245 employees. That is not enough workers. They need more workers. But that would cost more money if they don't layoff workers from the highest income areas. California is expensive to operate in. You have high taxes, and lots of regulations. So moving out of California, and moving to a no state income tax state, would save LL more money.

There was a project that they decided to offload a lot of the coding to a subcontractor in the Ukraine.

That project - Viewer 2.

(Besides, Linden Lab employees are all over the United States - a lot of the support people are in Georgia.)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 12:22 AM, Desudesudesuka said:

One approach I'd consider to actually make money: I'd hire creators, starting by trying to buy out some of the bigger ones who show consistent work. They make money convincingly for themselves, and LL, why not take them under the wing? I mean literally offering to buy Maitreya, Belleza, etc., as improvements to the default avatars would be a good place to start, and the game appears less janky to newcominers. If they could not be bought external artists would be hired/commissioned as needed. By controlling the actual content less money would slip out of SL as creators cash out, it would just be part of the budget people are paid. Ultimately I would have LL directly selling avatar components for the now stellar looking default avatars, as well as subscription benefits.

How would you control the content exactly? Also, you do realize if LL were to sell Avatar parts and limit the release to only them. That we would have a monopoly on our hand. Yeah I don't think I would want any sort of control or monopoly in SL.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 12:31 AM, Nextio said:

Linden Labs biggest mistake was not separating Adult accounts from everyone else.  There should have been a total separation.  Flagged adult accounts should have had their own servers and unable to communicate or see non-flagged adult accounts.  They could still do it, but it's going to cause a lot of backlash and technical problems now.

Why would you want to segregate Adults from the rest of the grid. Kinda unfair for the people who keep their settings to adult, and maybe want to go to an event, that is set to g or m, or even a club like that. You are limiting fun because you don't like adult accounts. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 2:02 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

Off the top of my head ... 

 

Balance the books...

Move to accounts being relationships with individual people who in turn have multiple avatars. Cap the number of avatars. All accounts come with access to a personal 'Library' that can be used to bump items between your own avatars IF that item has as an 'account wide' permission flag.

A Premium tier at the old $72 pa. level that includes everything that the new $99 offering does, just no land, another at $40 pa with half the L$.

People have shown they are happy to run multiple premiums, have some big premium options that come with more L$ or more tier or both. Don't be shy, make a $400 option and have it make sense to people with 5 premium accounts.

Remove payment info from account profiles for everyone. It's no one else's business what my financial relationship with LL is, this isn't IMVU.

Increase cash out fees for non premiums to 10% or just prevent it entirely. Says very plainly that if you're here to make money then you should be premium, even if that is just the super low entry level premium.

New region type "Hideaway". Full sized region that is exactly half a homestead. Let anyone buy one. Strictly G / M rated residential only. No businesses of any kind. Hard limit of 10 avatars at a time. No pathfinding. No temp rez. Not just rules - make those things just not work.

Cloud based on demand regions with ownership plans based on 'avatar minutes'. The region owner can always access, others eat into the avatar minutes. When someone runs out? Make it easy to buy more! Make it possible for people to buy each other 'avatar minutes' so we can have community groups supported by their communities.

Don't compete with your own products.

Advance the offering...

Hire a vulkan developer. If that fails. Kidnap two (and give them half a pool cue each)

G and M land ratings are a mess (A is fine). There is too much of a huge divide between the two. Fix it.

Give people a way to entirely opt out of everything A rated. Tick the box and poof! All M and A land vanishes. They only see other people who have opted out.

An end to to ALL sub letting of mainland. Start a program to rebuild whole mainland regions as they come free with themed homes and roads, ala Bellisseria.

Bring back first land, only this time with 1024 plots, no buy in cost and no way to sell them, when you leave, they go back to LL. No roads on these regions. "Hardcore Oldschool Freedom"

Drink your own coffee, but also taste everyone else's. Don't develop SL in an SL shaped bubble.

No more "perma bans" they don't work, they don't keep the worst from coming back over and over, they do create actual anti customers. Switch to a 6 month account lock out, access to dashboard only followed by complete amnesia of past offenses.

Standardize the basic way merchant offerings are bundled. No more rez to unpack, wear to unpack, don't unpack, stand on this region to unpack .. Give us a special box object, let us dress it up, but make it work one way all the time for everyone.

Events .. Once a year for SLB is not enough. One big LL themed event every month. Make us ALL want to come. Make people outside SL want to come.

Depreciate all LSO scripts. Yes, many vintage objects will cease to work. Making 'authentic' replacements will give us something to do.

Distract us with client side scripting for huds.

Depreciate all mesh uploader generated LOD meshes. If a mesh is upload as just one model, do the LOD generation on the fly in the viewer as needed.

Every policy change comes with a Chick Little themed gift. Every. Single. One.

MOBILE. Maybe not a full 3D client, but at least let us avatar to avatar IM, and make it clear when people are in world or not. iOS and Android.

Feature bounties / rewards. If a TPV works with LL to develop and submit a feature, pay them. 

Mesh building in the viewer.

Champion Blender = It's what we use, you should use it too.

Hard caps on avatar complexity. Letting the market decide does not work, stop pretending that it does, set the limit at a meaningful level. If we don't demand at least two bonus chicken little gifts, you didn't set it low enough. Constraints breed creativity.

Temp textures and temp meshs. Uploads that cost nothing, are locked to the region and avatar that uploaded them, and vanish when the avatar logs off or after 12 hours.

Drop the entire events infrastructure in the trash as not fit for purpose. Replace. 

Move 'grant debt permissions' out of the viewer. Make it easy to see all the objects that have debt perms and make it possible to revoke that permission from the website.

Don't compete with your own products.

GROWTH

We can and will always make new things, focus on that not on maintaining a functional museum to every bit of tat knocked up over the last 16 years.

Make it possible and practical to make games inside SL. If that means SL has to change some. CHANGE IT. Don't aim to be on steam, aim to be steam with avatars hanging out with all the cool stuff they have made between games. Go play some games.

Add authoritative client side physics - Call the resulting platform SL 2 - will this break every single vech in SL ever. Yes. worth it? OH HELL YES.

Referral program. Someone gets and keeps premium with your code, after 3 months, give that person a free month, give them another one 3 months after that, and then again after a year.

Remember when it was all blue sky's and painting the wrenches pink? We do, that was exciting. Go back to doing that.

SL isn't just the business you're in while trying to diversify, it's the future of everything.

Attitude is infectious.

Dream big.

Don't compete with your own products.

 

 

Two big issues, when LL has a more do what you want to approach. This seems like that exact opposite to me. That and you bring up many points to totally change the infrastructure and coding. You do realize that would break everything, and cost every creator on the grid a butt tonne of money. Just to reupload and do all that stuff. It may be beneficial for certain things but at the same time not. What would you do for all the creators, who have to basically rebuild their whole store/inventory?  Will you give them amnesty, to allow them to upload for free?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why would you want to segregate Adults from the rest of the grid. Kinda unfair for the people who keep their settings to adult, and maybe want to go to an event, that is set to g or m, or even a club like that. You are limiting fun because you don't like adult accounts. 

 

Second life as it stands is very sexualised its not every ones cup of tea. Look something up and it will all show up. 

Some want to go about their business without having sex in their faces. 

When I was separated from two of my children I often thought about a safe second life I could bring them into without having them exposed to the adult side of sl. I could feel like im spending time with them exploring, catching a movie or just talking in a cool spot. It never happened. I didnt want to risk some creep IMing them.

LL could market towards some lind of virtual space for families (not sure if its been done already)who cant be together physically. Say little Jack and Jills, Dad had to go away on a business trip. Moms on the wine while dad and kids log in and go explore for a bit before the kids bedtime. The kids just had fun with Dad and Mom gets a break or vice versa. Just a example. This is when verified accounts would be a must with both parental consents.. 

Theres facetime but you cant fly a plane or ride a horse or build the biggest rocket in the world with your kid on facetime. 

Like @CoffeeDujour said, Dream Big!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ananoelle said:

Second life as it stands is very sexualised its not every ones cup of tea. Look something up and it will all show up. 

Some want to go about their business without having sex in their faces. 

When I was separated from two of my children I often thought about a safe second life I could bring them into without having them exposed to the adult side of sl. I could feel like im spending time with them exploring, catching a movie or just talking in a cool spot. It never happened. I didnt want to risk some creep IMing them.

LL could market towards some lind of virtual space for families (not sure if its been done already)who cant be together physically. Say little Jack and Jills, Dad had to go away on a business trip. Moms on the wine while dad and kids log in and go explore for a bit before the kids bedtime. The kids just had fun with Dad and Mom gets a break or vice versa. Just a example. This is when verified accounts would be a must with both parental consents.. 

Theres facetime but you cant fly a plane or ride a horse or build the biggest rocket in the world with your kid on facetime. 

Like @CoffeeDujour said, Dream Big!

 

They already tried that, it was called the teen grid. But it got too much to maintain. However, I don't think it would be right to segregate people who are into more sexual things from the general populace. That would be kinda unfair, for a big portion of the users in SL.  What do you think they do all day, have sex and think about sex? You do realize, that we do much more than that. I for one, blog and go to clubs, and even shop. Like a normal person does. But your big dream is to essentially segregate everyone who is into adult things and pretty much only be on one part of the grid. What if some of us wanted to come over and watch a movie, or just sit and cuddle in the park?  You really can't make SL family friendly, sure you can have sims with hefty rules, and make it G. But that is all you can do. I would stop coming online if I could not partake in some non-sexual based fun. That all being said, that is the worst idea ever. Look at YouTube, they made it family friendly, and guess what it sucks. And as we can see in history, Segregation doesn't really work. It creates a negative stigma, of that group of people.

Edited by halebore Aeon
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would segregation be required when we already have THREE (formerly two) region ratings? You can't completely rubberwall a multi user platform and we really need to get out of this silly fear of sex "oh sex must be kept completely separate". This isn't the 1800 anymore.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/30/2019 at 6:15 PM, Beth Macbain said:

I have no idea what ***** was that got censored, but if Nike and Sony don't want to advertise in a world where adult activities exist, they should probably just close up shop. 

Sex hasn't always been a taboo subject. Those naughty Romans certainly didn't shy away from it. There are pornographic cave paintings. The Victorians were filthy. 

There is nothing wrong with BDSM, consensual rape fantasies (which is what SL allows) and, hmmm... five letters... yeah, still not sure. Could be any number of things. There was a time not so long ago that a brand wouldn't want to be associated with anything LGBTQ. Times changes. 

Don't come to my adult world... fine. I'm cool with that. But don't even consider segregating me from your PG world. I have a right to be there just as much as anyone. I do own clothes and have the common sense to know how to dress and behave appropriately according to my surroundings. 

I am literally getting sick and tired of this attitude. Hide sex, just shove it under the rug. It's bad, it's taboo, it should not exist. Yes, it exists, and it's something very natural. Especially when it comes to the BDSM community like I am a part of it. Why should I have to hide away, and not be able to be myself? That makes no sense.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hence why I keep saying .. we need a safe mode!

Enable Safe Mode ! - Only G regions can be seen in search, G content on the SLM, and most importantly, everyone who isn't also in Safe Mode is simply not visible. No profile, no avatar, no chat, no IM, nothing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Why would segregation be required when we already have THREE (formerly two) region ratings? You can't completely rubberwall a multi user platform and we really need to get out of this silly fear of sex "oh sex must be kept completely separate". This isn't the 1800 anymore.

Correction, it feels like the prohibition era the way people are acting. Lol, like literally. You have people who want to outright ban adult content on the grid, or this current one wants to segregate people who partake in adult stuff as well as just normal everyday stuff. It's rather funny really, makes me want to create an adult speakeasy, just for craps and giggles.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Segregation is the only way to make those people happy, so give them a way to segregate themselves away from the rest of us. They get the limited SL experience they so desperately desire and the rest of us can just carry on as though nothing has happened.

Besides .. we all know they are going to untick the safe mode box to peek from time to time, that's human nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Segregation is the only way to make those people happy, so give them a way to segregate themselves away from the rest of us. They get the limited SL experience they so desperately desire and the rest of us can just carry on as though nothing has happened.

Besides .. we all know they are going to untick the safe mode box to peek from time to time, that's human nature.

Not so long ago steam added a tickbox to show or hide adult content. Those people where screaming that having both contents in the same store was unacceptable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Segregation is the only way to make those people happy, so give them a way to segregate themselves away from the rest of us. They get the limited SL experience they so desperately desire and the rest of us can just carry on as though nothing has happened.

Besides .. we all know they are going to untick the safe mode box to peek from time to time, that's human nature.

But in the end, we would have to make sacrifices, cutting ourselves off from the rest of the grid. Unless we tick General or Moderate, so they would get what they would want in the end. But for what exactly? To live out their selfish dreams, as we have to keep out of the grid we call home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MP already has these choices:

  • General
  • General and Moderate
  • General, Moderate and Adult
  • Adult

Land designations are these choices:

  • General
  • Moderate
  • Adult

It's all already covered. Why clog up the King Kong code with more unnecessary coding? 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why would you want to segregate Adults from the rest of the grid. Kinda unfair for the people who keep their settings to adult, and maybe want to go to an event, that is set to g or m, or even a club like that. You are limiting fun because you don't like adult accounts. 

 

A lot of people are misconstruing of what i believe.  Personally, i wouldn't want separate accounts.  I'm just trying to convey, what i see as a mistake, from a business standpoint.  /shrug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Nextio said:

A lot of people are misconstruing of what i believe.  

You said you believed that us naughty deviants shouldn't be allowed on the grid with all the normal people. I'm not sure how that could possibly have been misconstrued. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...