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Cashout Fees To Rise to 5%

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3 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

If SL shuts down, and it shows zero signs of doing so anytime soon, I will continue to be self employed using the skills I have developed. There are many other ways to do that.

SL is not some special risky job that only lunatics would make a career of, even if you can’t imagine doing so. 

I never said it was. You're putting words into my mouth that were never there and taking it a bit too personally.

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51 minutes ago, drusilladarkwillow said:

I never said it was. You're putting words into my mouth that were never there and taking it a bit too personally.

Indeed you implied it. Why don’t you tell other people they shouldn’t work where they do because there is no guarantee their workplace will be around in five years? What makes people in SL in need of your advice that others are not?

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16 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Indeed you implied it. Why don’t you tell other people they shouldn’t work where they do because there is no guarantee their workplace will be around in five years? What makes people in SL in need of your advice that others are not?

It was never implied. You're taking it that way because you feel attacked. That's your problem not mine. This whole thread is mainly just an opinion piece and really a good bit of it can be taken as personal attacks if you decide to take it that way.

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42 minutes ago, drusilladarkwillow said:

It was never implied. You're taking it that way because you feel attacked. That's your problem not mine. This whole thread is mainly just an opinion piece and really a good bit of it can be taken as personal attacks if you decide to take it that way.

You insulted everyone in SL who has chosen to make a career in SL, by assuming we are too stupid to know the risks involved in making a career out of our work in SL. So far SL has given me the opportunity to make a very good living for ten years, in an economy where many if not most people don’t stay in the same job that long. And I would not be surprised if SL is still around ten more years. 

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If you ask me. They should increase it to 14.88% that way they can secure their expensive office in Bay Area. Btw Pamela congrats on your success in SL. People are just jealous. 

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17 minutes ago, Daffao said:

If you ask me. They should increase it to 14.88% that way they can secure their expensive office in Bay Area. Btw Pamela congrats on your success in SL. People are just jealous. 

You do understand that there is a reason tech companies all congregate in the bay area/Silicon Valley, don't you? You seem to have some very big issues with LL not outsourcing everything to India for some reason. Would you like to discuss it? 

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2 hours ago, drusilladarkwillow said:

This whole thread is mainly just an opinion piece and really a good bit of it can be taken as personal attacks if you decide to take it that way.

it would've been wrong for me to expect a career from SL along with some others, but it's not wrong for some people.  so my opinion is that you didn't think this through. and, make the statement just for you alone and if you should make a career

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These 

5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

You do understand that there is a reason tech companies all congregate in the bay area/Silicon Valley, don't you? You seem to have some very big issues with LL not outsourcing everything to India for some reason. Would you like to discuss it? 

Perhaps back in the 90s it was chic and funky to be physically close to other tech companies. Silicon Valley has changed drastically as well. The only reason old tech companies remain in old tech territories is because a dog gets used to where its born and raised. 

My only issue is that when companies are not being efficient enough which makes the people suffer who uses their products. Even doctors are being outsourced to India in LA. Some guy in LA had an indian doctor on a monitor screen with a moving robot tell him the bad news at a hospital. To me that is the forward spirit LL lacks. That hospital knows what the future is like. Imagine the cost that hospital saves. 

Why should people suffer because companies are too lazy to break their old habits? We are just humans, we get used to how things are and refuse to move on. Outsourcing is the modern way. Place the dataservers in middle of midwest somewhere, in a bunker. Below the ground so it's protected, cools it too. Some very popular IT companies in Europe are in underground bunkers which handles way more traffic than SL. Most towns these days even in USA midwest got high capacity access to fiberoptics which would serve the Dataservers with no problem. Then use drones to guard the facility, cheaper than human guards. Outsource the rest. Only need 3 Employees in main center building. Cost efficient and would secure the future of SL. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Daffao said:

These 

Perhaps back in the 90s it was chic and funky to be physically close to other tech companies. Silicon Valley has changed drastically as well. The only reason old tech companies remain in old tech territories is because a dog gets used to where its born and raised. 

My only issue is that when companies are not being efficient enough which makes the people suffer who uses their products. Even doctors are being outsourced to India in LA. Some guy in LA had an indian doctor on a monitor screen with a moving robot tell him the bad news at a hospital. To me that is the forward spirit LL lacks. That hospital knows what the future is like. Imagine the cost that hospital saves. 

Why should people suffer because companies are too lazy to break their old habits? We are just humans, we get used to how things are and refuse to move on. Outsourcing is the modern way. Place the dataservers in middle of midwest somewhere, in a bunker. Below the ground so it's protected, cools it too. Some very popular IT companies in Europe are in underground bunkers which handles way more traffic than SL. Most towns these days even in USA midwest got high capacity access to fiberoptics which would serve the Dataservers with no problem. Then use drones to guard the facility, cheaper than human guards. Outsource the rest. Only need 3 Employees in main center building. Cost efficient and would secure the future of SL. 

 

Well, first off, not everything is about saving money. I'm not okay with any company outsourcing and paying slave wages (and forcing slave hours) on desperate people. Sure, I want people in other companies to have jobs, but only if they're treated and paid well. I also don't want people in the US losing jobs. You seem to forget that these are human beings and not robots. 

And speaking of robots, I have telehealth that I can use to speak with a doctor for simple things like colds. If I have something serious, there is absolutely no way I want to be treated by a doctor in another room, much less another country, and I certainly don't want my diagnosis delivered by a robot. I doubt that I'm alone in this sentiment. That is NOT forward spirit... that is a loss of dignity and respect for human beings. 

There are multiple reasons tech companies are located in northern California and it has little to do with being next door neighbors to each other. First is the access to young talent. Northern California has numerous prestigious universities. Tech companies want to snatch them up, and those grads don't want to go live in Bismark, North Dakota (no offense to anyone in Bismark... I'm sure it's lovely!).

The infrastructure is already there. Aside from the tech companies themselves, there is an entire community of businesses built around the particular needs of tech companies, from lawyers, to marketing and PR companies, to real estate developers, and everything in between. 

Tech companies need investors. NoCal has an abundance of venture capitalists and angel investors and people with handfuls of cash wanting to give them to somebody to do something great with. 

Not to mention, NoCal is also just a really great place to live. People want to be there. The population is accepting of all cultures. People don't want to leave there, they want to move there, for reasons above and beyond the tech industry. It's just a really awesome place, from San Francisco, to the little towns out in Marin County, to the Napa Valley. 

No one is suffering because LL is in San Francisco but if they moved, people would absolutely suffer. The quality of LL would certainly go down because talented employees aren't going to pack their bags and move to the midwest. Mine, and your, experience in SL would suffer. This couple bucks extra that they're charging premium is long overdue and extremely fair. 

People aren't going to be replaced with drones or robots when it comes to every single job and you are... well, frankly, you seem a little creepy with this obsession you have with eliminating human jobs. 

Again, it's not all about money. 

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On 5/31/2019 at 6:51 AM, Elvina Ewing said:

haha ok, if you think so.

The reason Blueberry and Truth are so huge and famous is because their work is brilliant. If there were others that can match their skills, they would have already been big and famous themselves. There are, too, but not many. If Truth decides to quit tomorrow do you think there will be others to replace her? Magicka and others like it are already there, and the new Truth will not come out of nowhere. Simply because it is not attractive anymore to create for SL for 3D artists with Truth's skills, as i already said up above. So, the result: SL ends up be a poorer place because Truth (and others like her) left, and no one new and equally good have come by.

Truth is a he....just sayin'

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17 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm not okay with any company outsourcing and paying slave wages (and forcing slave hours) on desperate people.

Me too, that's why I went back to my rl job and only do SL as a hobby now. So now I take months to make one item instead of busting a gut to bring new items out fast.

But then, SL would NOT survive without its slaves.

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3 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:
21 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm not okay with any company outsourcing and paying slave wages (and forcing slave hours) on desperate people.

Me too, that's why I went back to my rl job and only do SL as a hobby now. So now I take months to make one item instead of busting a gut to bring new items out fast.

But then, SL would NOT survive without its slaves.

lol Rya

This exchange between you and Beth brings up the heart of the matter, I think, regarding the disconnect between those who attempt to work to create content vs those who think creators don't deserve much compensation for it. The non-creators (on this forum) really don't understand how hard it is to be a merchant. While parts of it are indeed fun, of course, it is hard work! They seem to think we're just playing around, riding in boats or cars, chatting with friends, or whatever -- and raking in the dough as we play!

Edited by Luna Bliss
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On 6/4/2019 at 10:13 AM, Alyona Su said:

I wonder if the greater picture here is lost. In simplest terms, Second Life is the only, that I know of, an entertainment platform that other people are willing to pay RL money to convert into digital tokens (L$ legally defined as this) to buy your pretty pixels with and also allows you to convert those valueless tokens into a *credit* that you can reinvest into your spending into that platform (the way most others do it) *and* also allows you to take a "refund" of that credit in real life legal tender.

That is all this is. So the company that gives you a refund on RL legal tender, that doesn't have to do this whatsoever (as most, if not all other entertainment platforms do not) and they decide to keep 10% of that as a surcharge (to also cover the RL charges their bank and government regulators demand) and you get the rest, essentially for free (as all your work creating pixel art is voluntary and discretionary,) that you actually complain about that?

Okay, go ahead and complain about it. Nothing wrong with that. Just realize that most realists will shake their heads with a hearty chuckle.

As for the argument that there are people whose real lives depend on their "revenues" coming out of Second Life: I'm sure there may be some. But what they rely on surely is only supplemental to whatever they are getting from any pension or State welfare. Surely the wiser among them have alternate means to supplant the loss of anything coming out f SL. And in my mind, if a creator is successful enough to be able to "rely" on the revenue generated through Second Life, then that creator must be pretty darned talented to make enough sales to generate that amount, to which I say there are many real-life opportunities where that talent can be turned into considerably higher levels of income than what is generated in SL.

All of that to say this: even if Linden Lab takes 80% commission, you're still getting free money you can't get from any other pretend playground. One shouldn't look a gift-horse in the mouth.

Your analysis does not hold because you're comparing apples & oranges. SL is not a typical game like WOW where the primary activity is gunning people down and USG (user generated content) is minimal. SL was founded on the creativity of its users and this distinguishes it from many other games -- this means that SL is dependent on keeping this creator population happy too if they want them to stay & continue to enhance SL. People who are here only for relaxation and play are of course extremely important for SL's success, but we can't diminish the importance of the creator community.

I don't see any evidence that you respect the creator community due to your comments that diminish their concerns and belittle their accomplishments with all your 'pixel talk', along with your unfounded estimation of how much monetary compensation they should be willing to receive for their effort when you don't know what creating in SL entails. Yeah, it's pixels and doesn't have solidity like the real world, but it is a form of art and requires the creativity & effort all art does -- it requires years of training if one does it well.

You may enjoy keeping things light and laughing at yourself and others, but it's insensitive to belittle and diminish the very real concerns of others as you've done with this post.

Speaking of "looking a gift horse in the mouth", I believe that's what you are actually doing. You're not appreciating the creator content which makes your SL so much fun, or the concerns they may have that determine whether they can keep it all coming to you, but instead expect it to be given to you at very little or no cost.

Edited by Luna Bliss
left out a word
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4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

we can't diminish the importance of the creator community.

I don't see an evidence that you respect the creator community
their concerns
belittle their accomplishments with all your 'pixel talk',
your unfounded estimation of much monetary compensation
when you don't know what creating in SL entails.
but it is a form of art and requires the creativity & effort all art does


it's insensitive to belittle and diminish the very real concerns of others as you've done with this post.

you're not appreciating the creator content which makes your SL so much fun

as usual these posts end in sour responses like this one, you as creator look down on others that have another view on things. Instead of listening you put them down and go sit on your throne as saviour and ruler of SL.

You know... SL was a LOT more fun when we all could play with our own rezzed plywood prims, instead of the happy few with meshskills. Yes you can call it art at the moment it's created, but as soon you as creator starts selling copy copy more copy, it looses that status and get just a object.  And your users create SL with it, you don't, at most you create a sim with your products.. or a home, but not more than than. It's your buyers that make the rest of the world, and you get paid for that.

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30 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

as usual these posts end in sour responses like this one, you as creator look down on others that have another view on things. Instead of listening you put them down and go sit on your throne as saviour and ruler of SL.

You know... SL was a LOT more fun when we all could play with our own rezzed plywood prims, instead of the happy few with meshskills. Yes you can call it art at the moment it's created, but as soon you as creator starts selling copy copy more copy, it looses that status and get just a object.  And your users create SL with it, you don't, at most you create a sim with your products.. or a home, but not more than than. It's your buyers that make the rest of the world, and you get paid for that.

I'm not looking down on anyone, nor do I think I'm on some kind of "throne as savior and ruler of SL.
Alyona was putting down the creator rather viciously  -- attempting to diminish them and not being sensitive to their concerns -- and so I was pointing out that we indeed have value and concerns that need to be listened to.
It is you who is making some kind of warring division between creator vs customer whereas I see them as equal in importance.
I value my customers and greatly appreciate their business, and I value LL as a company that has given me the opportunity to develop as a creator and earn money too.

What is really strange, is that you've placed me in a category I am not in your attempt to 'battle against me' -- I'm not skilled with mesh, and in fact I struggle with learning it daily.
Truth be known, I wish SL had never implemented mesh. I do understand your frustration with not being able to become proficient with mesh -- I was almost one of them and considered giving up. I think if you want to battle against the so-called "mesh snobs" you need to pick another person.

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

This exchange between you and Beth brings up the heart of the matter, I think, regarding the disconnect between those who attempt to work to create content vs those who think creators don't deserve much compensation for it. 

I have literally said multiple times that I'm willing to pay creators more money to cover the fee increase and have been treated like a giant bag of crap (and told to shut up) for suggesting something so ludicrous.

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On 5/31/2019 at 9:27 AM, drusilladarkwillow said:

Well businesses raise their prices every year.

And so should SL merchants then, so LL earns 2.5% of whatever price increase those merchants implement.

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warned you again and again those past monthes. This is just the simple and only consequence of an incompetent management.

Also, LL does know that only those whales are remaining in SL, and those are pretty much addicted, and spend waste a lot of money, and they can milk them all they want, forever, until LL sells this broken company to chinese or whatever fishy US money consortium (they already did, btw)

Hopefully, i found other ways to earn money, and i gave up on Sl long ago.

In the end, except few skilled single- man buisnesses that were  in SL since the begining +/-, only the LL puppets aka  crypto-subcontractors remains.

They want us to believe those buisness are normal but they arent, they are part +/- of LL since the begining. Biggest joke i ever seen.

 


 

 

Edited by Majestic Kohime

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On 6/5/2019 at 9:46 PM, drusilladarkwillow said:

That's good for you and I'm glad that it makes you happy. But in my personal opinion no one should depend on sl as it can be shut down or they can shut down at any given point and what would you do then? You can't really use them as a job reference. You'll have more skills, yes but no reference. It's just my personal opinion, don't take it so personally.

Any company you depend on in a critical fashion can shut down or cut you out, it's not exclusive to SL.

The adult industry has a recurring problem with payment processors cutting them out from processing payment from their customers.

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22 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I don't see an evidence...

 

Evidence? No skin off my n ose, I stand by my words, 100%; I don't need to prove anything to you. Whatever your circumstance is: deal with it and move on. S.I.M. - P.L.E.

19 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

And so should SL merchants then, so LL earns 2.5% of whatever price increase those merchants implement.

Under so-called "normal" circumstances would be called "common sense", except that common snese, as it turns out, isn't really all that common. Retailers pass their overhead costs and increases to those costs off to customer all the time. Status quo.

Edited by Alyona Su
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