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Cashout Fees To Rise to 5%

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18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's a raging debate about it. Many feel GMO's are not needed to meet global food production:

http://cdn3.ewg.org/sites/default/files/EWG Feeding the World Without GMOs 2015.pdf?_ga=1.78193172.1609920329.1428230447

Did you even read that ... That "paper" is precious little than cherry picking isolated points from a number of studies and using them to make a point that's pie in the sky fluff with less detail than a you-tube video. That is not part of the debate, that consultancy report is a weapon.

Don't worry, I'm sure all our American bellies will be full, and there are oceans between here and rest of the world (now if only we can build that wall and keep people from migrating north as they starve .. which they are doing in relatively tiny numbers right now).

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Pardon me, since when cashout fees going to raise to 5%? Because still I see it as 2.5% for my skrill.

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3 minutes ago, MeshPromo said:

Pardon me, since when cashout fees going to raise to 5%? Because still I see it as 2.5% for my skrill.

End of June.

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52 minutes ago, MeshPromo said:

Pardon me, since when cashout fees going to raise to 5%? Because still I see it as 2.5% for my skrill.

June 24th to be exact:

 

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes there's plenty of stolen and laggy un-optimized content shoveled into SL daily, and more by the month, so that you and other 'non-cashing out' creatives can enjoy your continued existence here for quite some time.
Well, unless too many get tired of the lag and find better new, less-laggy virtual worlds to inhabit for play and creativity.

I never said I'm a 'non-cashout" person; I cash out regularly. I just don't complain about the overhead. Presumptions can be a naughty thing, tsk, tsk ~wags a finger~

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8 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Their platform. We agreed when we "signed" that TOS. 

And you never make a huge fuss about changes. And you never strongly disagree with changes to the TOS and end up 'signing' it anyway, because it's the only way you can continue in SL - and so you do it, despite that strong disagreement - you still choose to stay. It's very hard to walk away, isn't it?

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Posted (edited)

You know when SL changed their TOS and everyone shouted about it, you being one of the most vocal, I didn't see what all the fuss was about, because I trusted that LL would do the right thing with my content, and I felt safe to continue without a care, but I never ever thought to undermine the concerns of others by debating and telling them it's their platform. Everyone knows. You even went and looked elsewhere, found nothing and so you stayed.....you made a huge fuss and then stayed.

Maybe this fee increase and any potential future increases are as important to me and others as that TOS change was to you. And so we are making our fuss, respect it.

Edited by Rya Nitely
changes
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The new pricing changes is focused about maximizing the profit for LL, and I think as a profit oriented company they should try to maximize the profit.

But increasing the credit processing fees to 5% is not a better decision. Because that demotivate "profit oriented" sellers to make high quality content for SL while this doesn't affect for those who create for fun only without expecting a crashout. This end up adding more stolen and laggy un-optimized content to the marketplace.

What LL could do is, add listing fee for all the marketplace items. may be 5% the listed price per month. Those who don't have enough L$ balance to pay that fees, the content get offline. Once they come back to SL after long break, they can either update the listing or keep those old outdated items as offline forever. That way helps to keep up-to-date items in the marketplace and to ensure the customer support from the merchants, as well as LL can get more profit. Most of the time the new residents get disappointed when they don't get the customer support from the merchants, and that way prevents it.

 

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8 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

The company has no choice but to increase fees if they are going to make the repairs.

I don't believe that is the situation here. When Ebbe came on board and found out that residents were cashing out $60 million per annum, he was impressed. At the same time he thought it was way too much and that there should be a redistribution by making land cheaper and less cash out. There was nothing to imply SL needed repairs, only that he thought it could be improved upon, and this is what he is attempting to do. He doesn't know what impact it will have. He really doesn't know how much the success of SL may depend on residence getting that $60 million. This is an experiment - that's all.

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22 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

And you never make a huge fuss about changes. And you never strongly disagree with changes to the TOS and end up 'signing' it anyway, because it's the only way you can continue in SL - and so you do it, despite that strong disagreement - you still choose to stay. It's very hard to walk away, isn't it?

It is difficult to walk away. Agreed.

I did however stop uploading ANYTHING for EIGHT MONTHS (with the exception of one informational texture for LEA7) - this  after the August 2013 TOS.  I was EXTREMELY outspoken about that -- and not alone.   I spent most of those eight months in Opensim where I practiced (for free) my Cycles learning. I also made a bunch of tutorials, both written and video.  So I was still "virtual" and still minding the store for the Machinima Open Studios Project --- I just refused to upload or make anything new in SL --  in protest. 

 

A lot of folks actually did exit then. A few who had real life 3D modeling careers were forced to give up not only their avatars but the money they had made in SL rather than face "real world" legal charges. One in particular I will miss. 

 

So sometimes my buttons really do get pushed -- just not over a few dollars a month less in my Paypal account. 

 

:SwingingFriends:

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15 minutes ago, MeshPromo said:

What LL could do is, add listing fee for all the marketplace items. may be 5% the listed price per month. Those who don't have enough L$ balance to pay that fees, the content get offline. Once they come back to SL after long break, they can either update the listing or keep those old outdated items as offline forever. That way helps to keep up-to-date items in the marketplace and to ensure the customer support from the merchants, as well as LL can get more profit. Most of the time the new residents get disappointed when they don't get the customer support from the merchants, and that way prevents it.

 

 

I disagree on oh so many levels I don't know where to start - LOL.  

 

If it is going to cost me 5% a month on each item I keep on the marketplace, I would simply take MOST of my items off the Marketplace and also sell them minus that 5% inworld (that is officially legal now by the way and apparently has been for a long while). 

You plan would keep up to date items on the Marketplace, yes. It would NOT insure that those items would be "good" or "game quality" or "not stolen".  It would also not insure that there would be customer support for those items.  

 

If I took all but my top 10 percent sellers off my marketplace (doing some math ...) that would be 174 items no longer on the Marketplace with some pricey ones selling fairly often for over $1000 lindens. So I am not seeing how the end result would be improvement in The Lab's bottom line. 

 

If I took all my items off the Marketplace it would definitely help make the bottom line lower and if OTHERS did the same it would make a huge dent.  

 

Protests and exoduses have happened before in SL and they HURT that balance ledger. They could happen again. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

I don't believe that is the situation here. When Ebbe came on board and found out that residents were cashing out $60 million per annum, he was impressed. At the same time he thought it was way too much and that there should be a redistribution by making land cheaper and less cash out. There was nothing to imply SL needed repairs, only that he thought it could be improved upon, and this is what he is attempting to do. He doesn't know what impact it will have. He really doesn't know how much the success of SL may depend on residence getting that $60 million. This is an experiment - that's all.

It was an example of a landlord needing capital to continue doing business with those expenses being factored in and as a result rental fees having to be raised. I didn't mean to imply that SL needed repairs; however, I do believe making the move to the cloud is going to create some rather substantial expenses in the short term. Also, the Lab has already said it takes more manpower to comply with new regulations which takes money as well. 

You seem to be of the opinion that LL is just out to grab your profits for no good reason. That everything is just hunky dory and they are squeezing every drop out of the turnip so they can play with a new idea. It is obvious to me that they have thought long and hard about Second Life's future and are putting their best efforts forward to insure that SL is still thriving 15 years from now. It's too bad your focus is so short sighted that you can't comprehend their motives.

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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

Protests and exoduses have happened before in SL and they HURT that balance ledger. They could happen again. 

this 

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57 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

You seem to be of the opinion that LL is just out to grab your profits for no good reason. That everything is just hunky dory and they are squeezing every drop out of the turnip so they can play with a new idea. It is obvious to me that they have thought long and hard about Second Life's future and are putting their best efforts forward to insure that SL is still thriving 15 years from now. It's too bad your focus is so short sighted that you can't comprehend their motives.

But I already explained to you that I do understand their motives, and I said it politely. Ebbe really does believe that 'grabbing' my profits is the best thing for SL, but he doesn't yet know whether his plan will work. None of us do, yet. And we don't know his target, how much he wants to take from cash out and redistribute to lowered land costs.

And please keep the discussion calm and polite.

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Here is one example of how it is impacting on one person - me. I'm only one but there may be others.

Right this minute I'm setting up my full perm shop on my homestead, and then I will abandon my 1/4 sim mainland parcel, which I own as a group with my alts. I will then drop my 7 premium accounts to basic.

This is how I've reacted to the change - and it's not what Ebbe is aiming for. I know it's just me, but who knows how others will react.

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1 hour ago, Rya Nitely said:

And please keep the discussion calm and polite.

I haven't been anything else but calm and polite.

 

1 hour ago, Rya Nitely said:

But I already explained to you that I do understand their motives

To me it seems from everything you've said that you only misunderstand their motives. 

I won't be replying further to your responses as I feel it's pointless. Your mind is made up. I do wish you well. 

 

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9 hours ago, MeshPromo said:

The new pricing changes is focused about maximizing the profit for LL, and I think as a profit oriented company they should try to maximize the profit.

Of course but you don't maximize profit by killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. That's a mistake many business leaders (and politicians) make today, sacrificing long time revenue for short time profit. They need to read Aesop's fables.

I don't think that's what LL is up to though. What they seem to do, is try to restructre their revenue to depend less on tier and more on other income sources.

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18 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

most of the folks that are complaining about the 2.5% increase are MERCHANTS.

 

8 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

I know it's just me, but who knows how others will react.

I have seen many people stating that they will not be able to afford the price increase merchants all over the place are planning to apply to offset the 5% cashout fee. People from well-to-do western countries don't understand, don't relate and don't care that for people from countries with other local currency than USD/EUR/GBP pennies here and there mean a lot. Surely US based SL residents form the major population of SL, but there are a lot of people from less well-to-do countries who will now either spend much less or stop spending altogether. This means, again - even less sales for the merchants, which is less cashout for LL to take their precious 5% off of.

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10 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

You plan would keep up to date items on the Marketplace, yes. It would NOT insure that those items would be "good" or "game quality" or "not stolen".  It would also not insure that there would be customer support for those items.   

Listing fee is not the ultimate solution to eliminate the bad stuff from marketplace. But it will do the following changes.

-  Those contents in the marketplace belongs to the residents who didn't visit inworld since many years, will be become offline, because they will not be there to pay the fees. In that way decades of old items which abondened by the creators will no longer in marketplace.

- Sellers think twice before list something in marketplce, if they think no one buy it, they won't waste there money to just for listing. But if they think they can earn more profit than just selling inworld store, they will list it anyway. Because its obvious that good items get more sales in marketplace than inworld store. So only the high quality stuff that people willing to buy, will be listed in marketplace. (There is a rule that contents can not be inflated in marketplace, than its inworld sales)

- Creators has to be careful to make the item "good" and "game quality", to get some sales, or they just end up paying only the listing fees and make a loss. So that way it will increase the quality of the content in marketplace.

- many stolen content in marketplace because LL don't have time to investigate all of those and its complains. If the items in marketplace become less, they get more time.

- Once the up-to-date items in marketplace, the new residents will not be disappointed from their first purchases, so they will keep purchasing more stuff and get addicted for SL. It will boost the marketplace performance.

-  ebay and many online marketplaces have listing fees for this reason.

Please note that I'm not just asking another listing fee, but what I'm suggesting is, implement a listing fee instead increasing the cashout fee to 5%, as LL seems eager to get more profit from SL. So this way will be win-win-win situation for, LL, creators and customers.

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31 minutes ago, MeshPromo said:

(There is a rule that contents can not be inflated in marketplace, than its inworld sales)

They recently confirmed  (recent as in the last 2 years)  that there is no such rule.

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18 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

They recently confirmed  (recent as in the last 2 years)  that there is no such rule.

Agreed.   Apparently (this from support - I "think" Dakota) that was a rule left over from Xstreet and no longer applies -- and hasn't for a long while, we just didn't KNOW that :D.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

Agreed.   Apparently (this from support - I "think" Dakota) that was a rule left over from Xstreet and no longer applies -- and hasn't for a long while, we just didn't KNOW that :D.  

I remember Dakota stating (on the forum) we could not inflate/deflate prices because it wasn't fair for people who did not have inworld stores. Whether she inferred the reason for the rule on her own or was giving the explanation from official policy I don't know. It caused me to examine what I thought was fair between those who had an inworld presence vs those who only had a MP store, and what seemed unfair to me at the time was the opposite -- some merchants had the additional cost of land and I thought the policy was actually unfair to those people
I also remember when Dakota said the rule was no longer in effect.
So no, this was not some policy left over from Xstreet.

Anyway, I'm glad they changed it because I'm such a space case with marketing and often forget I did not set prices back to a consistent presentation for both store and MP!  In fact, a shopper just questioned me why my prices were set differently on an item  :(

Edited by Luna Bliss

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2 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

I have seen many people stating that they will not be able to afford the price increase merchants all over the place are planning to apply to offset the 5% cashout fee. People from well-to-do western countries don't understand, don't relate and don't care that for people from countries with other local currency than USD/EUR/GBP pennies here and there mean a lot. Surely US based SL residents form the major population of SL, but there are a lot of people from less well-to-do countries who will now either spend much less or stop spending altogether. This means, again - even less sales for the merchants, which is less cashout for LL to take their precious 5% off of.

I don't think your comparison holds too well because it's so much more expensive to live in the West. For example, I can barely survive here in the U.S., even in an inexpensive area of the country, but I'd probably live like a queen in some parts of Mexico or South America. Most definitely I could not live in San Francisco (where I'd love to live due to family being there) because the average rent is $3,000.00 usd per month.
In other words, I do agree that "pennies" are worth more in non-western countries, but they can buy more with those pennies there than they can in the West.

Comparing Western countries only, even though countries outside the U.S. have to pay more taxes (including Vat), they get so much more governmental support in the way of health care, schooling, and more -- so the U.S. has no advantage.

I was reading an article about China, and so many more even have homes there compared to the U.S. -- there's much more governmental support there for school, rent, & medical care compared to the U.S.  The U.S. is quickly approaching the living standards of a 3rd world country (for a large percentage of residents).

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:
18 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

There's a raging debate about it. Many feel GMO's are not needed to meet global food production:

http://cdn3.ewg.org/sites/default/files/EWG Feeding the World Without GMOs 2015.pdf?_ga=1.78193172.1609920329.1428230447

Did you even read that ... That "paper" is precious little than cherry picking isolated points from a number of studies and using them to make a point that's pie in the sky fluff with less detail than a you-tube video. That is not part of the debate, that consultancy report is a weapon.

Don't worry, I'm sure all our American bellies will be full, and there are oceans between here and rest of the world (now if only we can build that wall and keep people from migrating north as they starve .. which they are doing in relatively tiny numbers right now). 

The article I posted is a good summary of the opposing views, and it has many references one can follow which link to Scientific articles.
Did you ever read stats outside of the experiments conducted by Monsanto (or whoever bought Monsanto recently) and the regulatory agencies with their revolving doors (Monsanto, regulatory agencies, governmental agencies -- all in bed with each other).  Big Pharma has these problems too.
Follow the money, almost never steers one wrong.
Fox guarding the hen house.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

In other words, I do agree that "pennies" are worth more in non-western countries, but they can buy more with those pennies there than they can in the West.

it doesn't matter what their RL expenses are like compared to western countries, it only matters what it is worth in SL, and in SL everybody uses L$. But to get the same amount of L$ (say 10 US$ worth of it) for you will mean a dinner at McDonalds worth, while for somebody from say Brazil (or something) it will be like a weeks salary worth. While you might easily part with a McDonalds dinner to fund your Second Life instead, somebody from Brazil will think twice before parting with their weeks worth salary.

I mean if they already do that they might still keep doing that, but for that very same amount they will be able to buy less now, if/when SL merchants raise their prices to offset the cashout fee. While you, or anybody else from a western country, will not mind to get 15$ worth of lindens where you used to get only 10$ worth before, to keep maintaining the same spending habits you used to, most people from non-western countries will most likely not be able to afford that.

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