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What are your opinions on the new "Land Price Reductions, New Premium Perks, and Pricing Changes "?

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LittleMe, you have said that you don't care if the content in SL is stolen from 3D websites, and that if you see something you want you just buy it.  Are you still feeling that way?  If so, why do you think it's both okay, and good for the SL economy?

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4 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

And did you try to see things from the perspective I presented? No, I don't think you did.

Beth, I'm big on self-actualization and taking responsibility for one's self. And I'm sure people can always do better to fix their store to weather the cashout fee increase, and that some eventually will if possible.  But there are limits you know. (maybe I should copypaste your silly 'bootstrap' speech here).

It's insulting for you to tell creators they are wallowing and not doing anything to remedy the situation when there's no way you can know that's the case.

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

LL doesn't own anyone an income. 

If LL ever raises their fees such that it truly causes enough people to stop doing the things inworld that give them those fees, then I have no doubt that they will re-evaluate and make changes in the opposite direction.  Ultimately LL is a business and they are here to make money.  If they continue to make money and increase their income, even at the loss of some performers/creators, then LL is still doing what they are here to do.

But neither do creators owe an income to LL, "not such a long time ago" the Chungs where toying with the idea of running their own parallele currency and store.

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

LittleMe, you have said that you don't care if the content in SL is stolen from 3D websites, and that if you see something you want you just buy it.  Are you still feeling that way?  If so, why do you think it's both okay, and good for the SL economy?

I never said I didn't care. I said that I am not taking the time to try and find out, nor would I even know where to look for such info.  

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

It's not just the live performers. DJs fit into this group as well. The other half DJs and he would say the same thing. Me? I'm having to make do with a 50L stipend to try to relaunch my puny SL business for the time being. Maybe I'll get lucky and be able to have a store on the MP by the end of summer. Maybe. If I'm lucky. If, a big word for such tiny letters.

I most DEFINITELY include DJ's in the "performers" category! Listening to a good one live-mixing is an education as well as a pleasure. That's a musical skill as worthy of respect as any other. It's undeniable that they are in a better state to weather increases than a live musician, because they at least have the option, in theory, of playing more hours to make up the difference whereas if I were to try and match the schedule of a successful SL DJ for a week my voice would be so trashed I couldn't perform anywhere for a month. Nonetheless, they still face the same issue of microscopic margin on what are, effectively, the exact same RL costs as performing in RL. Professional gear for their trade has a comparable cost to the gear I use in mine and wears out at the same rate. Any SL income they make comes from either tips or from venue owners who are themselves being squeezed until they squeak. That's not an exclusively virtual phenomenon either, only a tiny minority of RL venues are making enough margin to compensate entertainers well, it's just that in SL the numbers are even lower and when set against the RL-equivalent costs to a performer of live or recorded music it makes the cliff edge that much closer.

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6 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But neither do creators owe an income to LL, "not such a long time ago" the Chungs where toying with the idea of running their own parallele currency and store.

I remember how well that went over on the old forums. Like a lead balloon. That was around about the same time she went berserk on the forum because she didn't pay her tier (or premium, forgot which now) on time and was locked out of her Anshe account. She made it pretty obvious she felt LL owed her a living. 

 

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Beth, I'm big on self-actualization and taking responsibility for one's self. And I'm sure people can always do better to fix their store to weather the cashout fee increase, and that some eventually will if possible.  But there are limits you know. (maybe I should copypaste your silly 'bootstrap' speech here).

It's insulting for you to tell creators they are wallowing and not doing anything to remedy the situation when there's no way you can know that's the case.

Your behavior has shown that first line to be less than truthful and you can quote anything you want that I've said. I stand by it.

There are limits to how much people who aren't making one single cent from SL (and who are also paying LL more money now) can stomach listening to people who are making money complain because they are expected to pay LL for giving them a platform, as well as the tools, resources, and customer base, to make that money. Those costs that LL has to pay to give merchants that platform, tools, resources, and customer base increase in the real world along with every other cost on this planet and they pass those on to the merchants as any sane business that wants to stay in business would do. 

Telling someone, anyone, for any reason to shut up is beyond the pale. For all your perceived insults from me, I never once told you to shut up. I have differences of opinions with a great many people and I can and will debate them until the horse is dead, reincarnated, and dead again times infinity, but what I could never conceivably do is tell another person, especially a woman, to shut up. I even offered to show you how to block me so you don't have to read my annoying responses. 

You are just as guilty of doing what you accuse me of doing, with the added insult of repeatedly calling me annoying and telling me to shut up.  Go self-actualize on that for a while.

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

She made it pretty obvious she felt LL owed her a living.

Back then LL couldn't exactly afford to get rid of her, and It's safe to assume that it is still the case.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Back then LL couldn't exactly afford to get rid of her, and It's safe to assume that it is still the case.

It was and it is. Which is why she is still around. She also has her fingers in the IMVU pie as well as some others that I can't remember the names of off hand.

Edited by Selene Gregoire

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

There are limits to how much people who aren't making one single cent from SL (and who are also paying LL more money now) can stomach listening to people who are making money complain because they are expected to pay LL for giving them a platform, as well as the tools, resources, and customer base, to make that money. Those costs that LL has to pay to give merchants that platform, tools, resources, and customer base increase in the real world along with every other cost on this planet and they pass those on to the merchants as any sane business that wants to stay in business would do. 

I can't remember who wrote this but I'll still quote it:

"It's easy not to go wrong when you're not doing anything."

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9 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Back then LL couldn't exactly afford to get rid of her, and It's safe to assume that it is still the case.

partly... here is why : ACS holdings are 16.7% ..thats a huge chunk of sims.. ánd residents that rent there, so also economic of quite some importance...i wouldnt like it as company to put such one at risk of loosing. And i wouldn't be surprised AC also owns a few LL shares.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2019 at 4:10 PM, Luna Bliss said:

For some maybe, but in times past there was a thriving middle class here who did okay financially...but they are getting hollowed out. For the future I think we'll see a very few doing exceptionally well while most people struggle, even if they are good creators.

* I have seen these 'middle class' stores fall by the wayside, year after year....and as we see from the few who dare to speak up on the forum, more feel the need to leave.

 

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm also thinking about all the disabled people here, or the mothers working from home with children, who depend on their work in SL to fund their SL life, and even make an extra $100 or $200 a month in some cases to assist them in RL.  Will they reach a point where it's either too expensive or not worth their time the more LL takes of their earnings?

I find your talking about "middle class" creators rather disingenuous. I know, everyone thinks they're "middle class," but I'd consider a "middle class" creator one whose SL business pays for their Second Life expenses, but who has another source of income for their RL living expenses. This fee change actually helps the middle class as I'd think of it, because their fixed expenses are reduced with the land price reduction and most SL fees can be paid in US dollar balance, which means the increased cash-out fee won't be as much as a factor. As I've noted earlier, if a merchant owning a region is only cashing out a few hundred a month, they're coming out ahead. People who make Second Life their full-time job are really "one-percenters."

Edited by Theresa Tennyson
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1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

Anyway, are you aware of who is president in this country? And how many (temper your words, Beth) sycop-, moron-deplor-villain-, idio-, people who support him believe him to be the bestest, smartest businessman who ever existed and that they should emulate him? Do you think he, or they, care about anything other than themselves and making money? Do you think Walmart cares about pleasing their customers for any reason other than to keep them spending money there? Amazon? Target? Noooooo... They singularly want to make money for themselves and their share holders.

LL, I hope, has people who don't hate their jobs. Philip is long gone, and he was the visionary behind the dream. Make no mistake... LL is a business, period. Pleasing the customer makes it so they can make money. They do not make money in order to please the customer. 

Ebbe cares about the people.

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

LittleMe, you have said that you don't care if the content in SL is stolen from 3D websites, and that if you see something you want you just buy it.  Are you still feeling that way?  If so, why do you think it's both okay, and good for the SL economy?

stolen mesh is laggy as hell

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On 5/29/2019 at 5:52 PM, Kilolo Jenkins said:

Offline ims...why should they have been affected if the messages are being received offline via email? 

I never knew those were a premium benefit.  I have been in game 15 years and haven't got my offlines for at least 10 years.  So can I get a partial refund. hahaha  I have even tried different emails.  Doesn't matter what I try I don't get them.  I would prefer something else as a perk please!  Thanks for mentioning that because if I am paying more I'm going to expect all my perks now. :)

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Posted (edited)

The price increases are steep but understandable. I liked the prepayment idea and used it to get two of my alts in at the old rate. This proves that LL can accept prepayment, so how about a scalable discount rate and/or other premium 'plus' features for prepayment? For instance if an annual account pays 1 months in advance they get a pro-rata discount on the annual fee and/or choice of 'Premium Plus' features; same for 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, 1 year or more in advance.

If the whole price rise thing is to ensure future income and resident retention, surely encouraging people to pay in advance by giving them perks might work. This is where the 'smorgasbord premium' idea could become a thing: people who pay far in advance could then choose extra features such as more offline IM's, premium fee reduction / rebate, increased stipend, voice morphing features or whatever people think is an essential feature.

Edited by Alazarin Mondrian
more 'ideas'

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I can say that this is one, but the most interesting discussion I've read in the forum. There are many to which I would like to quote, but it would be excessive to expose a simple thought from so many valid arguments and reasons that have been exposed by both.

What I read, in summary, and triggered by a decision like that made by Linden Lab, is the contrast between the different ways of seeing, understanding, using and taking advantage of Second Life for each of those who have commented something and even by those who are not to the discussion, they experience their SL.

It will seem a crude truth what I will say, but very often we take it for granted: if for some SL is simply a game, whatever, role, skill, hobby, fun, for others is a platform to develop skills, explore fantasies, imagine worlds, ways of being and pretending. For others it is a platform from which to share knowledge, learn; not in vain is the mother of social networks. There is here who takes lightly what happens in SL, in the end, it is a virtual world. There is, however, who takes it too seriously and engages not only with others but with their dreams just as they do or could do it in RL. And all these ways of seeing, understanding, enjoying SL intersect and that is why it is considered methaworld. The cosmovisions of one and the other are what enrich this space and give it meaning. And even so, the conflict, just like in RL is our daily bread. We are never happy because it makes drama or because he stopped doing it.

Being a "decal" of reality, we bring here all our virtues and defects, all our miseries and pettiness, our traumas, deficiencies, absences, presences, affections, cultures, personalities. Those who use the platform to supplement their daily real income may be doing so as if SL were a simple instrument or in the hope of knowing themselves in a projection and representation of their potential. Exploring, designing, inventing, those creators, those entrepreneurs, those workers, those players circulate an economy intertwined with reality. Do not play with fictitious coins, even if they look like it.

Some of us make sacrifices in RL to pay a premium account and the land we have rented or bought and we are still here because SL means more than just making money, little or much, or spending time. We dedicate hours to make a parallel life without losing focus on what, above all, RL is paramount. We are realistic and dreamers, not deluded. The only players would have to look also with the eyes of those who use SL as a platform to solve their physical deficiencies, the disabled that, thanks to the community and their participation, paying tips, renting, buying, selling, manage not to be isolated from the real world by virtue of the virtual world. Listen carefully, for example, to some DJs who in their voices denote a condition such as cerebral palsy, sclerosis, etc. And they trust in SL to love, to earn a meal in this way. And, I have to say, we all know that, almost like in RL, earn money here, no matter which system we use, is not so easy or fast. I enjoyed playing the virtual Latin versión of the reality show Big Brother here and I won 250 k linden. Most of them went to my real pocket and I could get real meal thanks to that and the people that organize that contest, even the other contestants and public. Thanks to that I could restart my dream to become landlord, step by step, but ask me how much I have now to bring others a nice experience renting with me. Not enough to get nice, low prim, and more or less cheap furniture. So, I have to use my time logged to break my head to manage wisely my actual amount of prims and sqm. Is a fascinating process that gives me the chance to reinvent all but, first, my self. Linden Lab earns a lot also from mesh models uploaded, and sometimes that could be more expensive than the weekly or monthly tier. Perhaps, LL could think about such prices too.

I wrote it somewhere else, we do not have truthful, reliable demographic data that allow us to cross and relate resident avatars against SL users; premium against basics; human avatars against furies, customs, and objectives of use over this platform from subscribers, and a long etcetera increased by the diversity of RL confused with the diversity of imagination inside SL. We have an overpopulation of avatars, many of them used as alternatives or robots. Some see this practice as perverse, pernicious "for the business" because the crossroad of the inner economy gives temptations to cheaters, but we see and qualified this without stopping to understand the various reasons why a person can create several avatars. And there are many, from the desire to fraud to explore facets of one's personality as a therapy. If and when we got this information, I am sure most of the entrepreneurs and creators here could make more profitable and sustainable business plans with more solid merchandising and marketing. But, a big but, people here not always is in disposition for the reasons already said to share the truth about why they are here. They say SL is not RL. No? How many use SL to hide from themselves not only from the others inside and outside the world and with which reasons?

We are very given to judge lightly, from a singular perspective, not inclusive, the decisions of a company and even those decisions often suffer from the same error in the shortness of vision.

I do not want nor should I extend myself more. I conclude that, as far as I am concerned, although LL's decision puts me in a predicament in my RL, my dream is such that I will do my best to continue. Not because I believe in LL or SL, without because I believe in what the dreams of one and of a community can achieve, even if it is drop by drop, and we already see that the dollar equivalence of each line is much less than a drop . Perhaps, if the linden as the bitcoin were revalued, discussions like this would have another perspective.

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7 minutes ago, Beggar Mayo said:

Perhaps, if the linden as the bitcoin were revalued, discussions like this would have another perspective.

If you are suggesting what I think you are... no. I won't touch bitcoins or anything even remotely resembling them with anyone's 50 foot pole. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

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14 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

If you are suggesting what I think you are... no. I won't touch bitcoins or anything even remotely resembling them with anyone's 50 foot pole. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

He's suggesting that the L$ be revalued to a different amount of L$ per US$ - not that SL should use Bitcoin.

Say for example  .. that L$ went from being L$250 per US$ to L$25 - All prices everywhere in SL were magically divided by 10, so that 10L upload now cost 1L, everything on the market place, all things in world, and at the same time everyone had their L$ balance divided by 10 too (and rounded up first, so everyone comes out a little bit ahead). 

L$50 before the revaluation is pennies (US $0.20), but based on the currencies we use IRL, it feels closer to a whole $1 (or whatever 100 unit currency you use)

L$5 after a revaluation would be the exact same amount, but it would also feel more like pennies.

This will obviously never happen, no matter how much it may or may not be needed for a crazy number of reasons, including the immediate knee jerk negative reactions of consumers.

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 8:34 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Increasing the stipend to offset the increase makes no sense if LL's goal is to bring in more money.  

What group out there costs L$5,000 - L$12,500 to join?

DRD Shadow box, DFS Stash Box $2,500L per month (you get ejected and need to repay to get back in) , and several other specialized groups that you have to pay each month in order to receive special gifts... You get ejected at the end of each month, and need to repay to get back in. There are tons of groups like this...  The money is worth it for the groups mentioned plus a few others I am personally in. But since free accounts are now keeping their group limit of 42, this is moot. 

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I'm okay with the stipend being increased :) Or for that matter, the land allocation being increased, by all means LL, do so, I promise I will not be offended 💖💖

 

With that said, I'm really happy that they gave us a chance to pay the old premium prices for one more year, just in time for my incredibly delayed tax returns to cover 😎  Thank you LL :) 

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1 hour ago, WillowTenage said:

I'm okay with the stipend being increased :) Or for that matter, the land allocation being increased, by all means LL, do so, I promise I will not be offended 💖💖

 

With that said, I'm really happy that they gave us a chance to pay the old premium prices for one more year, just in time for my incredibly delayed tax returns to cover 😎  Thank you LL :) 

I just redid my subscription today for another year to jump on the current price as well..:)

They held off doing it for so long.. So I don't mind paying a little more for what I've enjoyed for so many years..

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10 hours ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

DRD Shadow box, DFS Stash Box $2,500L per month (you get ejected and need to repay to get back in) , and several other specialized groups that you have to pay each month in order to receive special gifts... You get ejected at the end of each month, and need to repay to get back in. There are tons of groups like this...  The money is worth it for the groups mentioned plus a few others I am personally in. But since free accounts are now keeping their group limit of 42, this is moot. 

That is insanity. I don't care how specialized the group.

If you have to pay to join every month after being ejected (!) they are NOT gifts! No group is worth that kind of revolving door greedy bs.

Not to mention they are completely missing out on a certain group of potential customers. That's what happens using bad business practices. Greed disguised as a brilliant idea, yet, people fall for it every month. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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11 hours ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

DRD Shadow box, DFS Stash Box $2,500L per month (you get ejected and need to repay to get back in) , and several other specialized groups that you have to pay each month in order to receive special gifts... You get ejected at the end of each month, and need to repay to get back in. There are tons of groups like this...  The money is worth it for the groups mentioned plus a few others I am personally in. But since free accounts are now keeping their group limit of 42, this is moot. 

 

19 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

That is insanity. I don't care how specialized the group.

If you have to pay to join every month after being ejected (!) they are NOT gifts! No group is worth that kind of revolving door greedy bs.

I agree with Selene, if you have to re-join and pay the L$2500 each month, then it isn't a gift. It sounds like they are selling some mysterious package each month for L$2500 each month and making it "exclusive" sounding by making you join the group each month in order to receive it.  In my opinion this is a misuse of group functionality.

I understand that they want to offer something of more value than what is paid for it to their group members each month.  They could have a VIP group that you don't have to re-join each month and have a VIP group-member only package with a purchase price of L$2500 at their store - with a different package available each month (and past month packages no longer available).     

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12 hours ago, LadyJane Bailey said:

DRD Shadow box, DFS Stash Box $2,500L per month (you get ejected and need to repay to get back in) , and several other specialized groups that you have to pay each month in order to receive special gifts... You get ejected at the end of each month, and need to repay to get back in. There are tons of groups like this...  The money is worth it for the groups mentioned plus a few others I am personally in. But since free accounts are now keeping their group limit of 42, this is moot. 

This sounds more like the subscription boxes that were somewhat popular a couple of years back. I believe it started with Luxe Box but most of those have gone by the wayside. The makeup boxes ... can't think of the name atm .. but it's for two of the major mesh head brands is still going as far as I know. These aren't gifts. They are simply using a group to organize and collect funds for the subscription boxes.

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