$99 problems

[Beth Macbain]

Second Life is a luxury item. I make less than $50K US per year, I support myself, pay my own bills, groceries, blah, blah, blah, blah, and it's up to me to decide if I can afford this increase.

I currently pay monthly. $9.50 x 12 divided by 365 comes to 31 cents per day. 

$11.99 x 12 divided by 365 comes to 39 cents per day. 

So if I stayed at that, it's literally an 8 cent per day increase.

However, I'm going to change to annual now. I'm going to be paying less now... only 27 cents per day. And if I'd already been paying yearly, my increase would be 7 cents per day, from 20 cents to 27 cents. Seven cents. It's going to hurt me to pay that lump sum, but I'll deal and I'll end up with more money at the end of the year than I would have. I understand this isn't an option for some people. The maximum anyone's price is going to go up (in the US) is 8 cents per day.

Yes, it adds up. Again, it's a luxury item that I'd hate to live without, but I could. I dropped Netflix when they increased their prices because I also have Hulu free through Spotify (who also increased their prices) and I have Amazon Prime and I just didn't see any need for Netflix. Sure, I have afforded it if I'd cut something somewhere else but, well, not I've got enough to pay for a LL price increase. It's all about choices. Netflix isn't closing their doors. Spotify isn't closing their doors.

To say that they're pricing SL out of reach for poor people is a little extreme and hyperbolic. Again, SL is a luxury item that we can all live without. When my grocery prices increase... well, I have to have food. My electricity rate increases... well, can't live without that, either. Rent goes up, gas goes up, utilities go up, phone plans go up. The price on everything increases.

SL hasn't increased their prices on premium in more than a decade. I can guarantee that in that time, their expenses have increased. I bet their employees have wanted raises to cover those increases in their groceries, electricity, gas, rent, mortgages, phone plans, etc. etc. 

I count every penny I have. I am one of the working poor. I have bills. I have debt, though luckily not a lot. I have unexpected expenses that come up that I have to pay. Second Life is a luxury item I've chosen to make room for because it's that important to me and is a great source of my entertainment. It adds great value to my life. To me, it's well worth 27 cents per day. 

If it isn't worth that to you, then okay. I'm certain they've factored in that they will lose some members. I'm certain they have advisers and consultants and have weighed the options as they've made these decisions. 

It is what it is, and from this poor person, I find it completely reasonable. 

[mehllama]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Noonan said:

I live on a fixed income and have only one premium account but I have to ask, did Linden labs even consider this as a thing they needed to look out for?  I see a trickledown effect they won't like the results of happening soon. 

1) Premium goes up 

2) Retail space has to go rental rather than ownership because they can no longer afford 'land alts' to keep space open

3) People have fewer free $L to spend because they have fewer real bucks to spend. 

4) Less free income to spend on retail purchases means retailers go hungry, so they begin closing quickly...even moreso if they actually LIVE on their SL income and the transfer fees make it no longer feasable to make a meaningful profit.

5) Overall fewer memberships are created or maintained because there is little to no point to remaining in what will become an increasingly expensive and empty grid..thus far smaller.

 

I would also encourage LL to not reduce group slots for free members and consider a special premium tier fee (reduced, obviously)  for people on fixed incomes.

That touches on another quality of life aspect. Many users of SL re on fixed incomes - retired or disabled. There have been articles in the media about how SL helps those with disabilities not just keep their minds active but truly find meaningful connections and do things in a virtual world their RL bodies can't do anymore where otherwise they would be locked up in their homes.  Sort of like that episode of Star Trek where Captain Pike is finally free to live virtually the way he had done before his accident. You can't understate that, I don't think. 

[Xiolin Furlough]

Just now, mehllama said:

Yeah. With SLCS and the airport I manage I'm in 10 groups alone, then the club I own two more, then two more as a Safe Waters Foundation officer, then land groups for rented parcels, my store - anything you're remotely seriously involved in requires multiple groups. For avis that are several years old, those connections can be quite broad. Granted, that's more of a social argument than a commercial one. But again it goes back to not making your users who do spend stuff necessarily unhappy. It's one thing to add features for premium accounts - great. But to strip down basic accounts may at some point start to make them feel kind of demo-ish.

Agreed. I have nothing wrong about offline IMs. Personally, I don't get many of those anyways so whatever at this point. The groups though could of been handled differently. LL has AWS on its way, which will help with making things better and cheaper for LL if done right. That said, it would of been a touch more reasonable for LL to reduce basic group count down to 40, and increase premium group count to 80.

Yes, basic still gets a decrease, but its not a major one. And premium gets a bit more punch to it being valuable. Even without server upgrades, you have ALOT more basic membership accounts then premium. The 2 count decrease would EASILY offset the bigger increase for premium group count, and wouldn't really shaft basic users all too much.

[Lindsay Noonan]

Posted just now

I live on a fixed income and have only one premium account but I have to ask, did Linden labs even consider this as a thing they needed to look out for?  I see a trickledown effect they won't like the results of happening soon. 

1) Premium goes up 

2) Retail space has to go rental rather than ownership because they can no longer afford 'land alts' to keep space open

3) People have fewer free $L to spend because they have fewer real bucks to spend. 

4) Less free income to spend on retail purchases means retailers go hungry, so they begin closing quickly...even moreso if they actually LIVE on their SL income and the transfer fees make it no longer feasable to make a meaningful profit.

5) Overall fewer memberships are created or maintained because there is little to no point to remaining in what will become an increasingly expensive and empty grid..thus far smaller.

 

I would also encourage LL to not reduce group slots for free members and consider a special premium tier fee (reduced, obviously)  for people on fixed incomes.

 

One more thing, people going through this and stil renewing need to be offered perks NOW like updated Linden Homes or something equally valuable, and you need to encourage the basic accounts to stay as well...rather than just abandon altogether...cutting their groups won't help and making it more expensive to trade up won't either.  Consider the numbers.  What percentage of SL memberships are premium?  What percentage of THEM actually pay land fees directly?  I'm guessing it's in the single digits percentage wise and in the end it will trigger a steady decline.  I am concerned this is their way of 'encouraging' people to move to Sansar or some future product which, frankly, nobody is doing now of their own accord.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Lindsay Noonan
typos

[AriannaCarmen]

If you pay the $99 annually, considering the L$300 they give you every week, you'll pay $3.05 per month.  That's not bad.  The bad thing is taking groups away from basic members. That is really beyond wrong. You don't get people to become premium members by making basic useless and trying to force them. The 42 groups for basic is ridiculous and now they are reducing it even more. Shame on them. It may bite them in the .........

[ShaydraPromise]

Well it says before the 24 for the low rate they may see how it goes after. I know they are fixing this place. I paid more for WoW it was 15 dollers a month Prem seems still fair I mean other games are bit high price second life don't have to challenge yourself. 

[Roxy Couturier]

Well, this isn't good news at all for me. I'd been adding alts to premium to offset the price increase in buying $L. So, I'll likely renew the ones already premium in one batch, then cancel the premium memberships. During that time, I'll join as many groups as i can and keep that benefit when I cancel (I just won't be willing to leave any of them like I do now). Forget any groups that have a membership fee. Sorry stores, this will also chill people from paying for any group joining fee, as people will need to be more fluid.

I'll go back to buying $L, but will do so only once or twice a year, and not buy any extra like I've been doing. That will budget me to have much less $L to spend on any other things but land that I also rent. I was also considering buying more mainland, but with just 2 premium accounts I have just enough land to make what I have now cost free. Of course, paying for 1024 extra is far less than the $99 per year, so the second one may also be canceled.

That figures out to a net loss in income for LL by my estimations. Loss of extra premiums, loss of revenue from buying $L to buy stuff. Less chance of non premiums buying $L to pay for store groups. 

[ShaydraPromise]

Yes some have few accounts for prem to save little linden each week to buy things. 

[Lindsay Noonan]

I see the forum lists me as a newbie, but let me amend that.  I first logged in April of 2006 and went premium in 2009 and have been ever since....monthly...not annual.  Between my various odd jobs in SL I manage to spend an additional 40USD or so a month here and at that I'm pushing it...and LL gets a piece of that as well.  I recognize there are regulatory fees to be paid and they're trying to spread the damage as thinly as possible but crippling new users or long term users such as myself is not the way to do it.  I live on disability, and that number doesn't grow very quickly.  As Mehllama pointed out this is my social interaction for good or for ill, and losing it would hurt...of course starving to death would hurt worse so if it ever comes down to THAT decision...buhbye.  Try to see not only how it affects you, but how it affects others less fortunate than you before you comment it won't matter.  It matters, trust me.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Lindsay Noonan
typos

[Coffee Pancake]

Why are you paying monthly.

Seriously, have a cheap month and don't buy any L$ and then pay for a year. Do it now and you're in at the old rate.

[Lindsay Noonan]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Why are you paying monthly.

Seriously, have a cheap month and don't buy any L$ and then pay for a year. Do it now and you're in at the old rate.

That's my intent for now...but I do have one or two basic accounts and this does me harm because I am paid monthly, not annually.  This will hurt, badly, but what other option have they left me?  This harks back to what I said before...if you are still working and earning a steady income you can't see it from my perspective...I get paid once a month and have to make that stretch over 27-31 days time.  It's maybe a third or less of what a minimum wage worker earns.  Even 72USD is a big bite of the pie to give up all at once.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Lindsay Noonan
Additional input

[Malin Sabra]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Well, this isn't good news at all for me. I'd been adding alts to premium to offset the price increase in buying $L. So, I'll likely renew the ones already premium in one batch, then cancel the premium memberships. During that time, I'll join as many groups as i can and keep that benefit when I cancel (I just won't be willing to leave any of them like I do now). Forget any groups that have a membership fee. Sorry stores, this will also chill people from paying for any group joining fee, as people will need to be more fluid.

I'll go back to buying $L, but will do so only once or twice a year, and not buy any extra like I've been doing. That will budget me to have much less $L to spend on any other things but land that I also rent. I was also considering buying more mainland, but with just 2 premium accounts I have just enough land to make what I have now cost free. Of course, paying for 1024 extra is far less than the $99 per year, so the second one may also be canceled.

That figures out to a net loss in income for LL by my estimations. Loss of extra premiums, loss of revenue from buying $L to buy stuff. Less chance of non premiums buying $L to pay for store groups. 

But an increase in private regions by land barons who will in turn rent parcels out to all the people that dropped premium and no longer "own" land. Own 3 sims and rent them out = Premium for a year covered just off the profits from 1 single month. Rich get richer poor get poorer? Corporate America! Risk vs Reward. Should be pretty easy to get all your parcels rented out once this goes in to full effect. Should also be a lot of newly abandoned land. Mainland will be a post apocalyptic desert.

I'm just kidding, I have no clue what I'm talking about.

[Satin Diesel]

35 groups for basic members are very fast filled. If you are a dj/host/store owner. I won´t be able to have more dj or hosting jobs, or I need to choose to leave all shop groups even the ones with 500 or more L$ fees. So the people, whom mentioned here, that its not a good idea to do it, are pretty right. Did the ppl from LL ever overthink, that some people have jobs or stores in SL? And the money they make out of that, they spend on the grid, plus the uploaded money.  I am not happy with this and to go premium.... I see no advantage in this. I have a home, so dont need any Linden home. The only thing would be the 70 groups thing. But really no. I think soon is the day to come, when they ban basics completely. It feels like. (Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native)

[Selene Gregoire]

4 minutes ago, Malin Sabra said:

Mainland will be a post apocalyptic desert.

You have a last name so I have a good idea of how long you've been in SL. In all that time you never noticed Mainland has been a wasteland for... must be getting close to 10 years now?

Shirley you jest!

Edited May 30, 2019 by Selene Gregoire
most uncooperative space bar

[Malin Sabra]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You have a lastn ame so I have a good idea of how long you've been in SL. In all that time you never noticed Mainland has been a wasteland for... must be getting close to 10 years now?

Shirley you jest!

Haha good point, told ya I didnt know what I was talking about

I dont get out much... lol

Edited May 30, 2019 by Malin Sabra

[Lindal Kidd]

Well, I can't say I am happy about the Premium price increase.  But really, it should not have come as a big surprise to anyone.

• There have been NO Premium increases for the 12 years I've been in SL.  In fact, last year they CUT the monthly Premium rate.
• LL has made no secret of the fact that they are re-balancing their income streams...decreasing the cost of land, while increasing other types of fees
• There have been a lot of Premium benefits added over the last couple of years, with no increase in price until now.

If you think $99 per year is bad...try getting a subscription for Adobe Creative Cloud.  Now THERE's a bunch of money-grubbing so-and-so's.

The decrease in group slots for Basic members is also a pretty reasonable move on LL's part, despite the teeth-gnashing from Basic residents.  Groups take a ton of back-end resources to support.  By taking away groups from Basic accounts and giving more to Premium ones, LL can get away with not having to pay for more resources to support more total groups/group members.  At the same time, they increase the perceived value of a Premium membership.  For store owners, subscribos have always been a way to get around the "I don't have enough group slots" problem.  And we all managed to get by, somehow, with only 30 slots in the past.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If you think $99 per year is bad...try getting a subscription for Adobe Creative Cloud.  Now THERE's a bunch of money-grubbing so-and-so's.

Pffft .. Marvelous Designer is $50 a month ($300 a year). Although technically, if you're making stuff to sell in SL you should be on the business licence, cheap at $1700 a year.

[Desudesudesuka]

9 minutes ago, Satin Diesel said:

Did the ppl from LL ever overthink, that some people have jobs or stores in SL? And the money they make out of that, they spend on the grid, plus the uploaded money.

No, they didn't think about the users. They have be be very out of touch to have done what they did. Their aggressive move to a subscription payment method makes it seem like the merchant income isn't on the radar for them. They think everyone is going to start buying premium, despite that they reduced the appeal of the game and jacked the price to cement that. The real pipe dream is people buying more land.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Desudesudesuka

[Roxy Couturier]

6 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Well, I can't say I am happy about the Premium price increase.  But really, it should not have come as a big surprise to anyone.

• There have been NO Premium increases for the 12 years I've been in SL.  In fact, last year they CUT the monthly Premium rate.
• LL has made no secret of the fact that they are re-balancing their income streams...decreasing the cost of land, while increasing other types of fees
• There have been a lot of Premium benefits added over the last couple of years, with no increase in price until now.

If you think $99 per year is bad...try getting a subscription for Adobe Creative Cloud.  Now THERE's a bunch of money-grubbing so-and-so's.

The decrease in group slots for Basic members is also a pretty reasonable move on LL's part, despite the teeth-gnashing from Basic residents.  Groups take a ton of back-end resources to support.  By taking away groups from Basic accounts and giving more to Premium ones, LL can get away with not having to pay for more resources to support more total groups/group members.  At the same time, they increase the perceived value of a Premium membership.  For store owners, subscribos have always been a way to get around the "I don't have enough group slots" problem.  And we all managed to get by, somehow, with only 30 slots in the past.

Except, by offsetting, they're back to square one and found a way to actually decrease all their revenue streams.*

 

*ETA: Oh, but it's LL..

Edited May 30, 2019 by Roxy Couturier
added ETA

[Lindal Kidd]

Just now, Roxy Couturier said:

Except, by offsetting, they're back to square one and found a way to actually decrease all their revenue streams.

We may think so, looking at it from our perspective.  But I'd bet LL did a lot of modeling before they made that decision.  (At least, I sure hope they did!)

[Selene Gregoire]

10 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Well, I can't say I am happy about the Premium price increase.  But really, it should not have come as a big surprise to anyone.

• There have been NO Premium increases for the 12 years I've been in SL.  In fact, last year they CUT the monthly Premium rate.
• LL has made no secret of the fact that they are re-balancing their income streams...decreasing the cost of land, while increasing other types of fees
• There have been a lot of Premium benefits added over the last couple of years, with no increase in price until now.

If you think $99 per year is bad...try getting a subscription for Adobe Creative Cloud.  Now THERE's a bunch of money-grubbing so-and-so's.

The decrease in group slots for Basic members is also a pretty reasonable move on LL's part, despite the teeth-gnashing from Basic residents.  Groups take a ton of back-end resources to support.  By taking away groups from Basic accounts and giving more to Premium ones, LL can get away with not having to pay for more resources to support more total groups/group members.  At the same time, they increase the perceived value of a Premium membership.  For store owners, subscribos have always been a way to get around the "I don't have enough group slots" problem.  And we all managed to get by, somehow, with only 30 slots in the past.

lol That's who I was doing customer service for when my job got outsourced. Adobe.

And the company I worked at was Stream, now owned by Convergys. 

All three of them suck when it comes to customer service, including LL.

Subscribos... no. Not after the hell I went through being put on a few, without my consent, and trying to get the content creators to remove me from their spam lists. My IMs were capped every. freaking. day. for. months. on end because of ONE that I never subscribed to.  Thing is, I have never subscribed to anything in SL so I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, I had not signed up for it.

Some stores have these welcome mats that are scripted (there are other methods less easily detectable) and that is how you get added without your consent by simply walking through the door.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Desudesudesuka]

9 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Groups take a ton of back-end resources to support. 

I'm going to go full psuedocoder and say " why not just make groups run better?" I think something is very wrong with groups the way they've been implemented, for example, there's  the fact that user title switching was apparently a big problem.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Desudesudesuka

[Seba Serpente]

Here is another problem with the decrease on the free account groups: People will leave a lot of creators groups and they no longer will be well informed of new releases, updates and offers.

This means a decrease on product sales and a lower power for store owners to keep their consumers up to date, or simply keep a close relationship with them.

That plus a probable increase in product costs due to  merchants earning less with the process credit fee increase, plus the mandatory premium account cost to be able to manage the business properly. The saving on land that some might get is not enough. Is all more expenses and less earnings our way.

[Lindal Kidd]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

Subscribos... no. Not after the hell I went through being put on a few, without my consent, and trying to get the content creators to remove me from their spam lists. My IMs were capped every. freaking. day. for. months. on end because of ONE that I never subscribed to.  Thing is, I have never subscribed to anything in SL so I knew, without a shadow of a doubt, I had not signed up for it.

Some stores have these welcome mats that are scripted (there are other methods less easily detectable) and that is how you get added without your consent by simply walking through the door.

We all know how you feel about subscribos, Selene!  And I agree with you that no one should be added without their consent.  But a properly set up subscribo is a good alternative to a traditional store group.

[mehllama]

Maybe a compromise would be to start free users out with 35 groups and then after a year or so as active regular users and who've spent a certain threshold in-world, they get rewarded with additional group space. They are, after all, helping bring money into LL coffers and their regular active use also helps LL stay on the map as a viable virtual world experience.

Just one thought. 😃