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Kitten Kaos

Freedom to, freedom from and the future of mainland (shared experience)

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4 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

That's true but even if you have mutiple small parcels on a free standing region, there would still be fewer "annoying neighbours" than on mainland.

An island in the middle of a homestead sim. A dozen 1024 m2 parcels scattered across it as far out of sight from each other as possible but all still with a good view. That should do.

I guess I lost the thread here. Sure, there's still a market for Homesteads, although personally I'm not so sure about how appealing they are diced up into a dozen parcels, and anyway that would abandon any "community" at all, as if all neighbors need to be hidden.

Oh, maybe that's where we're disconnected: I'd have no use for a feature that derenders wholesale everything but the parcel itself. But I'd sure like to be able to make my selective derendering list a feature of my parcel, to hide for visitors only the stuff that doesn't fit with its content.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I guess I lost the thread here. Sure, there's still a market for Homesteads, although personally I'm not so sure about how appealing they are diced up into a dozen parcels, and anyway that would abandon any "community" at all, as if all neighbors need to be hidden.

Oh, maybe that's where we're disconnected: I'd have no use for a feature that derenders wholesale everything but the parcel itself. But I'd sure like to be able to make my selective derendering list a feature of my parcel, to hide for visitors only the stuff that doesn't fit with its content.

I'm with you. If I had been fenced in inside a small pocket virtual reality, I wuold have left as fast as I could click on the logoff button. But others don't see it that way and that is something I both understand and respect.

In an ideal virtual world there should be room for both and I was trying to sketch up on way that could be achieved. But, of course, if such an ideal virtual world is ever going to exist, it won't be named Second Life. That train left the station many years ago.

Edited by ChinRey

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16 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Honestly, the only reason I still own any mainland at all is because I can't have a store in Bellisseria. I have no desire to return to living on mainland EVER. If the lab offers a commercial version of Bellisseria I will be moving my shop. 

And I really hope they do, because with last nights news: I am cutting some land alts back to basic, and selling off my  mainland. I'm not alone in this either, from what I've heard. So ... that escalated quickly.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kitten Kaos said:

And I really hope they do, because with last nights news: I am cutting some land alts back to basic, and selling off my  mainland. I'm not alone in this either, from what I've heard. So ... that escalated quickly.

That sounds extreme, but I don't have the context you're referring to: what "news" is this you are mentioning?

EDIT: I see - the latest LL blog post (Sorry, still at the beginning of my day and Forum-surfing). :)

EDIT (update): I actually like what I'm reading. The increase in the Premium Membership is a big pill to swallow, so I can see why some will drop alts back to basic (that just makes financial sense) - I may even do it, but I'm still on the fence about it.

Then there is this:

Quote

Even more improvements to Premium Membership are coming later this year: more new Linden Home themes and options as well as the introduction of an all-new membership level for those who want to get the absolute most out of their Second Life. Look out for updates to Events and more limit increases as well. 

This is the one thing that piques my interest the most. The question, obviously, is what will the cost be ($120/Yr? $150/yr?) and what exactly you get for that to determine the if the value meets the price. If it does, then yeah: I'll drop my alt back to basic and up my main to the new level. I'm sure there would be a larger L$ stipend (I'm already at the L$400/week level) so that would have to be a significant increase. Like L$ 800-:L$1000 LOL

Edited by Alyona Su

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Posted (edited)

I don't mind the price increase- long overdue; but the way they dropped it (as ever with LL)  Not enough heads up to smooth the way... letting us have one more term at current price is great, if that bill wasn't due ALL AT ONCE for my land alts. I think they could've sweetened the deal more than just 10 more memberships and more offline IMs. & & I think the blow to basic members was uncalled for.

I'm not pissed as much as a little grumpy & yes... letting go of premium on some land alts.

 

& yeah if you think people are burning the forums  down now, wait til the Super Premium deets are announced. But it will blow over in both cases & people will adjust.

Edited by Kitten Kaos
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All of this happens now. The best way to avoid it is to rent from land barons who you pay more to. However, that increased pay, much like an HOA, will make certain you get more space, more prims but your neighbors cant be anarchists. Or you buy mainland, and you derender, you build in the sky or you find one of the very few groups in SL who work to beautify mainland to live next to. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Gingir Ghoststar said:

All of this happens now. The best way to avoid it is to rent from land barons who you pay more to. However, that increased pay, much like an HOA, will make certain you get more space, more prims but your neighbors cant be anarchists. Or you buy mainland, and you derender, you build in the sky or you find one of the very few groups in SL who work to beautify mainland to live next to. 

 

I'd hoped for some tech work around (one that a scriptor could even sell) since I suspect mainland will get even more ... colorful and not everyone who attracts visitors wants to build in the sky. As more people move to estates or to Linden themed continents, this will be how it goes.  Pretty much all public spaces & business will eventually move off mainland, if they can do so.  So it goes

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Just now, Kitten Kaos said:

I'd hoped for some tech work around (one that a scriptor could even sell) since I suspect mainland will get even more ... colorful and not everyone who attracts visitors wants to build in the sky. As more people move to estates or to Linden themed continents, this will be how it goes.  Pretty much all public spaces & business will eventually move off mainland, if they can do so.  So it goes

I agree, I would like to see them offer ownership of home steads or the smaller sims, I forget what they called them, without having to own a full sim. I would probably happily own a homestead for my store if they didn't also make me have to own a full sim first. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Gingir Ghoststar said:

I agree, I would like to see them offer ownership of home steads or the smaller sims, I forget what they called them, without having to own a full sim. I would probably happily own a homestead for my store if they didn't also make me have to own a full sim first. 

 

That would be a perfectly workable  solution. Do what Gingir says,  LL, & no one gets hurt 😛

Edited by Kitten Kaos

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Gingir Ghoststar said:

I agree, I would like to see them offer ownership of home steads or the smaller sims, I forget what they called them, without having to own a full sim. I would probably happily own a homestead for my store if they didn't also make me have to own a full sim first. 

People have wanted to be allowed to own standalone Homesteads as Premium members for ages, but the big Homestead-renting Estates always lost their sh-... tempers. (There must be huge margin in renting commodity Homesteads, somehow, which seems impossible given public numbers. Of course, Atlas program or whatever may make Homesteads much less costly for the biggest Estates.)

The "smaller sims" presumably would be OpenSpaces, but I think they did away with those at some point although I forget when and why.

[ETA: Boy, if they allow the new "super premiums" to own Homesteads without first needing a full Estate region, that would be a huge incentive. Bad news for existing Mainland, though, and Estates, both.]

Edited by Qie Niangao
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

[ETA: Boy, if they allow the new "super premiums" to own Homesteads without first needing a full Estate region, that would be a huge incentive. Bad news for existing Mainland, though, and Estates, both.]

it would be a big call by LL to do this.  I dunno what LL's financial risk modelling would be showing them about this. The modelling would give LL some pause for thought and not to be undertaken lightly I would think

if they did do it tho then I think we might see some of the red hearts on the mainland world map disappear

 

edit ps. I have said elsewhere that if I was the owner of SL then I would do the Super Premium gets a homestead in the price. But I say this from a state of blissful ignorance of any hard data. The actual data might bear it, it might not either

Edited by Mollymews
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15 hours ago, ChinRey said:

I'm with you. If I had been fenced in inside a small pocket virtual reality, I would have left as fast as I could click on the logoff button. But others don't see it that way and that is something I both understand and respect.

If the number of people who really want that was large, Sansar would have more than 11 concurrent users.

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4 hours ago, animats said:

If the number of people who really want that was large, Sansar would have more than 11 concurrent users.

It does! I've seen concurrency numbers close to 30 there! ;)

But seriously,. what do people want and expect from a virtual reality? What would have made the users even happier about their experience? What was it the ones who joined but didn't like it were missing? What could make more people interested in joining? As far as I know, there has never been a serious study in this so we're all guessing really.

To stay in the context of this thread, I know there are people who want a snug little hideaway for themselves in virtual reality while others are looking for wide spaces. I know some people want to keep full control over their private virtual environment while others won't theirs to fit into a larger context. All this should be obvious to anybody.

But how many people fit into each of these broad categories? How many current users? How many former users? How many potential new users? I'm sure people here will chime in with their views. That's great but it doesn't really answer the questions because we can only speak for ourselves.

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There's a balance that should be maintained between expressing oneself and what is already in existence in the area. If it's already a complete free for all, then by all means have at. If there's an obvious theme going on then at least try to do something that will fit in. That should be a consideration BEFORE you buy the land. "It's my land and I can do what I want with it!" is the cry of the rude, immature, and entitled.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2019 at 12:03 PM, Qie Niangao said:
  1. A very major contributor to Bellisseria's sense of community is the prohibition on whitelist banlines and the rational restrictions on security scripts, especially on the houseboat regions where watercraft can operate without peril. 

I would argue that the restriction on orbs and elimination of banlines and restriction of security orbs is *the* contributor. Once  you take down the barriers that keep people apart, that sense of community can start to form. People start to meet, to talk, and to make friends. People even discover that their fears about everyone being a griefer do not reflect reality. It works. 

On 5/29/2019 at 12:03 PM, Qie Niangao said:

We can't realistically expect these constraints on Mainland, not even the best waterfront regions; even Blake Sea estates hesitate to force tenants to curb their orbs.

I think we can expect similar constraints on mainland. Linden Lab says they want the mainland to be social too. It's not just Bellessaria that is supposed to be a social community environment. It's all of SL. If they want to have that happen, they need to get involved in putting some constraints on mainland.

The Blake Sea estates make a great example because they are actually the opposite of how you describe them. Most, if not all, of the Blake Sea estates *do* force tenants to curb their orbs. I run sailing races for one of the big yacht clubs and the particular ones I run take place in the Blake Sea estates. If they didn't restrain the orbs, we couldn't have those races there. 

Take a look at the estate covenants. You will find that they often use the term "sailing first estate" to describe themselves. And they tend to contain restrictions that prohibit things like security orbs that reach into water, including water within the parcel boundary, and minimum time durations that often exceed those on Bellissaria. 

On 5/29/2019 at 3:19 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

While there are a lot of folks that love the new security rules on Bellisseria, there were some that left due to them and others that stated here in the forums that they would skip the new homes because of them.  There are also plenty of folks here that don't care about the 'community' aspect and are getting a Linden Home because it is one of their benefits and a place to live for free (beyond the cost of the membership).  There will also always be others that don't want the community stuff that won't bother getting a Linden home, for various reasons.

Of course, a few left. But I have to wonder . . . if LL wants to build community, then are the people who stand in the way of that really a loss? Aren't we possibly better off without them? Especially if it is that sense of community that offers the opportunity of a second wind for SL?

And we've even seen some of the people who screamed bloody murder about the restrictions turn around and express thanks now that they've seen how they operate and it was not some catastrophe. And we've seen demand dramatically increase sense the restrictions were put in place.

On 5/29/2019 at 3:36 PM, animats said:

commandments1.thumb.png.951f30076bc3942992e342ece718aff2.png

The commandments of mainland living.

The moles put these up every 2km or so on the main roads of some continents. In some areas, each monument has its own tiny park and rez areas. Obeying these commandments solves most of the problems.

Really? I'm not aware of any put up by the moles. Would love to see some if you have any LMs to share!

The object was originally created by Abnor Mole. There are some residents who put these up to encourage people to be better neighbors and as a way to voice objection to the mess that mainland has become. To me it makes the message far more compelling that these are proliferating among residents.

Sad to say I've seen some really over the top hateful reactions from some residents to those of us who like to rez those obelisks. Usually it comes from people who say they don't want to be told what to do with their land, so they respond by telling others what to do with their land. Sigh.

Quote

SL reserves the right to change the rules on mainland. I'd like to see the Bellisseria covenant extended to some mainland areas. Maybe a slow rollout starting in urban areas such as Bay City and Kama City, which don't have much big ugly stuff.

I agree at least as far as the banlines eliminated and orbs restricted. Subject to the provision that accomplishing the same thing as is done on Bellissaria would require more than a 15 second minimum time. 

On 5/30/2019 at 3:05 AM, ChinRey said:

Yes but if that is the case, Mainland plays no part in it. From a land owner's or renter's point of view the only advantage the Mainland concept has, is that it is possible to build within a larger context. The moment you remove that factor, single unconnected regions bcome a far better option.

I disagree strongly. The mainland is rather obviously meant to be traveled over. That's why there are roads, water channels, etc. Yes, building within a larger context is an advantage. But I would argue that space to travel is even a bigger issue.

But if someone wants to be isolated without people coming in, then single unconnected regions are perfect.

On 5/31/2019 at 4:28 AM, ChinRey said:

To stay in the context of this thread, I know there are people who want a snug little hideaway for themselves in virtual reality while others are looking for wide spaces. I know some people want to keep full control over their private virtual environment while others won't theirs to fit into a larger context. All this should be obvious to anybody.

And for those who want their private space with no one coming in, the private estates are a perfect solution. Allowing them to disrupt mainland use via security orb abuse and other such problems, on the other hand, is catastrophic for the mainland. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how someone with a 1024 could mess up business use for a whole sim. That's essentially what is happening now. A small number of antisocial selfish people setup orbs and ban lines to interfere with innocent use and travel around the mainland for everyone. That is not acceptable.

Edited by Female Winslet
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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

I'm not aware of any put up by the moles. Would love to see some if you have any LMs to share!

 

vividroutecorfeldjpg.thumb.jpg.921d21419fd8bb70bea841ff7ea85711.jpg

Erected by the Vivid Route Initiative on Circuit de Corse. No idea who they are, or were. Anyone know?

Circuit de Corse is one of the nicest drives in Second Life. This matters. Roads are important to SL. Go 100m inland from the road in Corsica and you're on abandoned land.
 

Quote

 

The mainland is rather obviously meant to be traveled over. That's why there are roads, water channels, etc. Yes, building within a larger context is an advantage. But I would argue that space to travel is even a bigger issue.

But if someone wants to be isolated without people coming in, then single unconnected regions are perfect. 

 

Exactly. If you want isolation in SL, it's available. There are private landlords that will sell you a tiny island you can wall off from the world. If that's what you want, go there.

The success of Bellesaria shows that many users want a social experience in SL. LL should encourage that on mainland. LL might offer a land swap for people who really, really want their ban line or giant backdrop. A free move to Outer Nowhere.

 

Edited by animats
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On 5/29/2019 at 3:36 PM, animats said:

commandments1.thumb.png.951f30076bc3942992e342ece718aff2.pngcommandments2.thumb.png.3dc8c5365cd4e343757879919d01b05e.png

The commandments of mainland living.

The moles put these up every 2km or so on the main roads of some continents.

These are on Mock Heather Road on the Atoll continent where I have my lot. I think they're ugly and I'd like to see them removed. Ironically. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2019 at 8:44 AM, Kitten Kaos said:

This is going to be a long one, so bear with me, heavy doses of "rights conflict " balancing, but the goal I'd like to keep in mind is the best experience for *everyone*

I really do think SL is perhaps on the brink of a mini Renaissance brought about by a spate for forward thinking policy changes from mainland bonuses to LI to the new Linden Homes, and I'm very happy to see this, but one thing about the interview Patch gave  the Bellisserian

caught my attention as worthy of talking about here and that's the idea of Linden Homes as starter homes that some people will graduate from when  they desire more "freedom", at which point they will go to mainland rental or purchase. And I'm not sure that's how things will play out, on the whole (although maybe it is, in which case: rock on, LL)

 The rub here is that "freedom from" is as important as "freedom to".

Now before this already gets needlessly contentious, let me begin by saying that I do support the idea of mainland being the place of maximum freedom in builds. There absolutely will always be a market for that and it allows those who place "personal expression"  above all else a place to be themselves within the broad parameters of the TOS.

THIS IS UN DISPUTEDLY A GOOD THING.

The problem is going to be that I foresee a day, and not far off when, those who can live happily on a diet of 350 LI and within a strict covenant stay largely on the Linden Homes continents. Those who need more LI but like themed living will own or rent on estates.

And mainland will be for the anarchists.... except even anarchists don't necessarily want to be surrounded by full bright whatchits, yellow tape, and spinning red *for sale signs*.

Those things won't attract a lot of new buyers, especially among people who were wooed into SL by generous premium benefits and gorgeous home plots.

"But, Kaos", you may say: "that's what de render options and sky palaces are for".

Yes, that works for some. But it leads to a lack of a sense of community... and the newfound sense of community in Bellisseria, for example, is exactly what is driving the nascent Renaissance.

So I see this as a problem that may only escalate on mainland in future.

What if we could find some way that wasn't client side, to address this?

I know parcel owner "derender things outside my parcel for visitors- and make that opt in" on the server side  is just not doable.

I know that Windlight settings can only obscure so much of what the neighbor's cats drag in. Even w/ EEP (which is still  quite a topic)

I know that throwing up parcel walls is just ugly, and again: isolating AF.

But, what can we do to make mainland a place people will want to visit/ own?

I'm no scripter, but is there a way to project a parcel Windlight sky on a tall screen that is phantom and invisible from the outward facing side, so people can effectively have just sky & water as a view for their visitors, but the neighbors aren't inconvenienced?

Help me find a win/win here for all in Second Life.

 

 

 

 

People can always have freedom by buying a private island and putting what they want.

But since people aren't rich or don't want to spend on SL (it's really more often the latter, I find), they go on the Mainland or in island rentals.

The Mainland has huge swatches of nice builds, pretty areas, order -- I know, because I have land on 50 sims which I share with others and generally these are nice areas. That's only a percentage of the 5000 plus Mainland sims. But the cliches about the mainland are mainly spread by people who want to drive customers to their island rentals or purchases (and that includes Lindens themselves). Mainland blight is a great advertising device to drive island revenue.

De-render is NOT a feature of the standard SL viewer made by LL. I realize there's this notion that "everybody" is on Firestorm, but actually, they aren't.

And you can't keep having ever visitor de-render, and just de-render constantly, it's a chore.

There's also the "shared experience" thing -- and why not? If you want to live in a maximum security bunker, go to an island.

The single greatest thing that the Lindens could do to improve the mainland is to have a rule that if you have not logged in for X days (365?) and you have not rezzed a prim on your land for X days, your build disappears. It could go back into inventory in a lump. Or there might be some other way to de-render it from the view temporarily on builds over 365 days on land where the land owner (not the build owner necessarily, as they can be differed) whose owner has not logged in. Just like texture can be put on 100% transparency or put back to 0% -- perhaps prims could, too. Or, if that isn't possible, "no shows" would automatically have, say, a lush forest or a gorgeous Italian villa pop up OVER all their builds. SOMETHING to stem the blight.

The technical challenge of de-rendering no-show owners who either have Charter accounts or have paid for more than a year ahead or whatever may not be as terrible as making de-rendering available always and everywhere on demand.

In my experience -- and keep in mind I see A LOT more of the Mainland every day than most people -- the most chronic ugly problems are those from people who joined, put up plywood, and never textured it or finished it, or people who put up some ugly spinning thing and never returned -- yet paid ahead. Or so it seems. I have to say I'm perplexed why there are so many people that would pay ahead that far and not log on.

But I have dozens of tickets I keep trying to re-open of land seemingly abandoned that the Lindens will not clear of builds. They claim accounts of people not in the people list for months at a time are "in good standing". Huh? This lets me know they gave out a whole bunch of complementary accounts in the industry, or let staff give them out to friends and relatives or SOMETHING to explain it. Otherwise you couldn't explain why a name is gone from the people list -- that means usually they did not pay -- but the land is still there with the build, and the Lindens refuse to clear it, over and over. MYSTERY!

Yes, there are also uglies that people log on every day to keep ugly. The Lindens could have set the kind of rules they make for, say, the SL16B, or Linden Homes, on at least some mainland sims, but they already wanted that freedom for some creating a "freedom from" problem for others long ago and established it -- hence the chaos. 

Yet another thing they could do is allow community councils with the power to return any prims -- Governor Linden would allow officers/sim managers on her islands, essentially. Of course, they won't do that. But it is one solution.

 

 

Edited by Prokofy Neva

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Posted (edited)

I think the mystery of accounts in good standing owning otherwise abandoned land is more easily explained by direct debits than charter accounts (whatever they are).

There will be some land nicely decorated for the community where the owner hasn't logged in for a year, but is otherwise loved, that would be a loss to the community if returned because they hadn't logged in. It would be a small minority case, but all the same any new system introduced to clear up mainland parcels where the owner is long term absent would have to factor that in. Perhaps to just accept the risk, or put in place an option for non-owners to request an exception.

Edited by Aethelwine
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Posted (edited)
On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 8:44 AM, Kitten Kaos said:

Help me find a win/win here for all in Second Life.

I'm not sure there is one! I honestly think if there was one, LL would have figured it out by now. I've thought about this too and I can't come up with a scenario that includes freedom but also restrictions on ugly. How do you enforce that?

"Zoned" sims have always been an idea that LL has played with and those sims work well for a lot of people. BUT I'm going to bet that once the novelty of the new linden homes wear off, people will want to buy their own houses/prefabs, which you cannot have on that continent. There are just too many beautifully crafted sl homes for them to not want to. And I bet they would look great in the nicely landscaped, suburban Bellissaria continent.  I think if I owned a residential sim, I would have a list of "approved" houses that people could choose from. A big, big long list so that people didn't feel restricted in their choice.

Edited by Ingrid Ingersoll
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1 hour ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

 I think if I owned a residential sim, I would have a list of "approved" houses that people could choose from. A big, big long list so that people didn't feel restricted in their choice.

Of course if LL tried this, no matter how long and inclusive that list of approved houses may be, there'd be the inevitable uproar around the "favoritism" LL are showing by including some creators and excluding others, resulting in yet another incarnation of that most loathsome of SLs fictitious elite ruling classes, the dreaded FIC! xD

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7 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Of course if LL tried this, no matter how long and inclusive that list of approved houses may be, there'd be the inevitable uproar around the "favoritism"

True. But too bad. BENEVOLENT DICTATORSHIP

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On 6/13/2019 at 6:42 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

.

But I have dozens of tickets I keep trying to re-open of land seemingly abandoned that the Lindens will not clear of builds. They claim accounts of people not in the people list for months at a time are "in good standing". Huh?

 

 

I heard "in good standing" simply means they have paid for it. Their premium is paid, their tier is paid.

And I was living next to some places, where the owners was inlogged often. Their builds was ugly. Very ugly. Ugly as in full bright trees and snow. Ugly as in rezzed a huge, really huge, sign of Ped0bear.

 

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On 6/11/2019 at 9:57 PM, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

These are on Mock Heather Road on the Atoll continent where I have my lot. I think they're ugly and I'd like to see them removed. Ironically. 

I totally agree. They are a total eyesore, and just stupid.

Re: Really? I'm not aware of any put up by the moles. Would love to see some if you have any LMs to share!

The object was originally created by Abnor Mole. There are some residents who put these up to encourage people to be better neighbors and as a way to voice objection to the mess that mainland has become. To me it makes the message far more compelling that these are proliferating among residents.

Sad to say I've seen some really over the top hateful reactions from some residents to those of us who like to rez those obelisks. Usually it comes from people who say they don't want to be told what to do with their land, so they respond by telling others what to do with their land. Sigh.

I'm not aware of any Lindens or Moles deliberately putting this up everywhere -- I see it mainly as residents.

And in my experience, some of the worst offenders use them to cover their own guilt and virtue-signal where there is none. Some of you might know the one near one of my rentals where the defacer of the view has put up a sack of garbage with flies coming out of it and an outhouse next to these obelisks. Kind of undoes their point.

I always know of some put up by sanctimonious types who think they are buying the view and helping the Mainland by picking up little extortionist plots, sometimes paying, sometimes getting them after abandoned, but then putting up these idiocies on those little plots only perpetuates the problem.

 

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7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I heard "in good standing" simply means they have paid for it. Their premium is paid, their tier is paid.

And I was living next to some places, where the owners was inlogged often. Their builds was ugly. Very ugly. Ugly as in full bright trees and snow. Ugly as in rezzed a huge, really huge, sign of Ped0bear.

 

Ask yourself who in their right mind would PAY AHEAD FOR YEARS for a parcel they never visit, when they never log into SL. Who could possibly justify paying $72 A YEAR FOR YEARS??? It makes no sense. Even the wealthy wouldn't do this -- especially the wealthy, as they get wealthy by saving money. If they left a form of payment that bills $72 every year or worse, $22.50 every 3 months, what, are they dead? They make so many purchases they don't notice? And this happens not just once but 10 times in SL? I simply do not believe it. I think the Lindens gave out comp accounts in the industry, possibly to staff (they are Linden alts) or friends or family, and they are  paid forever, but without the kind of symbol like the Charter members have on their account. There really is no other good explanation. 

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