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Am I the only one off-kilter??


Beth Macbain
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2 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It's the wall add-on for covering the navy. It, or the boat, moved a tiny bit over the last day or so. 

That makes total sense.  Maybe make the add-on a tad bit fatter so you can shift it a bit and not get the clash with the underlying wall?

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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This isn't about off-kilter, but about houseboat setup / placement in general.  If we could somehow be allowed to rotate the placement of our houseboat on the parcel itself, we could correct the following "view" issues.

This is Barnacle and Windlass, on my parcel -- perfect view in 2 directions (most of the "view" windows/doors are on the outward facing 2 sides):
117610836_Barnacleview.thumb.JPG.820d82fdc5ba1ee33c3e94ad3b089255.JPG   1148700514_Windlassview.thumb.JPG.44362c50b185daf8efe92f3c761f579f.JPG

 

Whereas this is the view direction of Evening Star - only the windows on the right side face the water.  If I could rotate that houseboat right 90 degrees, so the door is to the dock in the upper part of the picture, then I would be looking at water straight ahead, rather than a row of houseboats.
1744147557_EveningStar.thumb.JPG.33353f272040e8b8f9f7496a32a1fb9e.JPG

 

This is my view with Wallower, again just looking at my neighbors.  A full 180 degree rotation would not only change the view to the water, but it would also actually make the stairs and 2nd door accessible directly from the main dock section.
1407107884_Wallowerview.thumb.JPG.764ac019d357c883ea75437d24707389.JPG

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23 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It's the wall add-on for covering the navy. It, or the boat, moved a tiny bit over the last day or so. 

Wall addons should be a reasonable amount fatter on all faces to account for this, rotations in SL "drift" and there is nothing that can be done to fix it.

(they don't drift, it's just how floating point numbers work, certain numbers can't be represented, so when your edits get saved on the sever they can end up in a 'close enough' situation that is actually off by noticeable amount when things need to be perfectly aligned. 10 Min video that really explains it -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZRI1IfStY0 )

 

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27 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

That makes total sense.  Maybe make the add-on a tad bit fatter so you can shift it a bit and not get the clash with the underlying wall?

i was able to move it a bit so it's not glitching in the wall. We'll see if it moves again over time! 

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1 minute ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Such realism!  I mean, boats move a little bit with tides etc...  OK, so yes the stuff in/on the boat would normally move with the boat, but we can't have everything right?  :D 

( Now to figure out an excuse for the houses doing it too)

Right?? It's already moved again... or I'm insane and/or have no idea what I'm doing (entirely likely). I'm quite convinced at this point that it's just me being an idiot because I just got a message from MFM (my favorite Mole) that he just looked at my boat and it's lined up perfectly.

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1 minute ago, Gryphon Ronas said:

Such realism!  I mean, boats move a little bit with tides etc...  OK, so yes the stuff in/on the boat would normally move with the boat, but we can't have everything right?  :D 

( Now to figure out an excuse for the houses doing it too)

My RL house is built on adobe type soil that contracts and expands based on the season and how much water it gets.  So we have doors that line up perfectly in the frame part of the year and don't other parts of the year, none of the floors are completely flat,  putting a free-standing floor lamp in the living room highlights the 'shift' with some of the walls or the floor, and so on.  

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1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

@Beth Macbain

Is the add-on mod? If so, and I hope it is, you can resize it enough that it won't keep happening.

I actually just saw another version of it on the MP that has a rezzer and is all one piece that I'm going to try. This one is great, but for someone that is as spatially-challenged as me, the rezzer version may be easier. 

The add-on is mod, though. I'm just short on patience and motivation right now to tinker a lot... lol! (And the rezzer version I'm looking at is only L$49... a bit more expensive than the L$1 version I have now, but both creators are being utterly amazing about helping solve a problem for almost free!)

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/27/2019 at 6:58 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

This isn't about off-kilter, but about houseboat setup / placement in general.  If we could somehow be allowed to rotate the placement of our houseboat on the parcel itself, we could correct the following "view" issues.

This is Barnacle and Windlass, on my parcel -- perfect view in 2 directions (most of the "view" windows/doors are on the outward facing 2 sides):
   Whereas this is the view direction of Evening Star - only the windows on the right side face the water.  If I could rotate that houseboat right 90 degrees, so the door is to the dock in the upper part of the picture, then I would be looking at water straight ahead, rather than a row of houseboats.
This is my view with Wallower, again just looking at my neighbors.  A full 180 degree rotation would not only change the view to the water, but it would also actually make the stairs and 2nd door accessible directly from the main dock section.
 

I so agree with this!! The placement for some of the houseboats could be so much better, i.e. that the view from inside was outwards to the water rather than to for example houseboats behind you. I wish we could rotate the boats:( I'm a bit baffled why they've been placed like that, unless there is some really sensible LL reason we just haven't figured out...

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On 5/27/2019 at 8:11 PM, CoffeeDujour said:

Wall addons should be a reasonable amount fatter on all faces to account for this, rotations in SL "drift" and there is nothing that can be done to fix it.

(they don't drift, it's just how floating point numbers work, certain numbers can't be represented, so when your edits get saved on the sever they can end up in a 'close enough' situation that is actually off by noticeable amount when things need to be perfectly aligned. 10 Min video that really explains it -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZRI1IfStY0 )

 

Well, 'nothing can be done to fix it' may be true, from the server end of things, but that's what my own rezzer actually does. It was originally called 'Prim Drift Protector', but has now turned into a complex rezzer system. The controller sends out a daily pulse, to tell all linksets to restore their exact positiion (should they have drifted, or rotated a bit somehow). And the script inside the linksets do so on linking to/off it as well; like see this debug message from it:

 

kira_3.thumb.jpg.b853831534ac6660df54c8fba8bc14bd.jpg

 

That way my build always stay perfectly aligned, even over time. :) I haven't put it up for sale, btw, and I still haven't gotten around to finishing writing the (rather extensive) documentation for it, LOL. But if I ever do, I will give it away for free, to whoever wants it.

I can't accommodate for prim drift on the housboats, of course. So, I will likely have to rerezz mine a couple of times.

Beth's problem, btw (I think I'm using the same 7 LI wallover set), is not necessarily the result of prim drift. I moved certain wall segments (indeed, especially near the stairs) a milimeter or so towards the innards of the boat. In that sense, the wallover is no different from any other thin prim with texture you put over something (like a faux shadow): if it's too close on top of it, it will start to show 'bleed thru' from the underlying prim.

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  • 2 weeks later...

WTH?  I logged in today to find almost every piece of the outdoor linksets slightly off on the rotations.  Rather than a rotation of 0, 0, 0, many of them were at 0.10001, 359.10001, 359.10001.  If one of the rotations was supposed to be 90, I found it at 89.10001, and once at 92.10001.  One really odd one had a rotation of 232.something, when it should have been 0. Additionally, some items had actually moved position by quite a bit.  All of these area previously lined up with no gaps.

image.png.abaf56dad770c6fbcfd6fbeb3581ec9f.png            image.png.cb57d68353ff3d9a3b9ba69035191cd3.png

 

And this post used to be centered on the railing

image.png.2ce676a3592e451ec152b8ac34be7921.png

 

I have the root info of the main linksets saved and so I can reset those, but these are individual parts of a linkset that are moving. Now I'll have to spend part of this weekend re-aligning everything.  I will come to hate these houses really fast if things keep shifting like this. 

It's too bad I can't see the coordinates of the actual house or pieces of it so that I can tell if it is shifting also.

 

Though I will say that I just found a good use for a rezzer system with this stuff.  If I had put it all in a rezzer box, I could now just delete it all and rerezz.  I most definitely will be doing that after I fix this.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

WTH?  I logged in today to find almost every piece of the outdoor linksets slightly off on the rotations.  Rather than a rotation of 0, 0, 0, many of them were at 0.10001, 359.10001, 359.10001.  If one of the rotations was supposed to be 90, I found it at 89.10001, and once at 92.10001.  One really odd one had a rotation of 232.something, when it should have been 0. Additionally, some items had actually moved position by quite a bit.  All of these area previously lined up with no gaps.     

And this post used to be centered on the railing

I have the root info of the main linksets saved and so I can reset those, but these are individual parts of a linkset that are moving. Now I'll have to spend part of this weekend re-aligning everything.  I will come to hate these houses really fast if things keep shifting like this. 

It's too bad I can't see the coordinates of the actual house or pieces of it so that I can tell if it is shifting also.

Though I will say that I just found a good use for a rezzer system with this stuff.  If I had put it all in a rezzer box, I could now just delete it all and rerezz.  I most definitely will be doing that after I fix this.

I think before you move all the stuff back to where it was, @Quartz Mole might be interested in taking a look at it maybe. I knew I wasn't imagining things!

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It's too bad I can't see the coordinates of the actual house or pieces of it so that I can tell if it is shifting also.

Floating point rounding issues affect everything.

The only way around the problem is to anticipate it and build with some overlap, that way when things drift, you wont notice.

Fixing all the numbers by hand will only keep them fixed for a while. 

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3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

WTH?  I logged in today to find almost every piece of the outdoor linksets slightly off on the rotations.  Rather than a rotation of 0, 0, 0, many of them were at 0.10001, 359.10001, 359.10001.  If one of the rotations was supposed to be 90, I found it at 89.10001, and once at 92.10001.  One really odd one had a rotation of 232.something, when it should have been 0. Additionally, some items had actually moved position by quite a bit.  All of these area previously lined up with no gaps.

image.png.abaf56dad770c6fbcfd6fbeb3581ec9f.png            image.png.cb57d68353ff3d9a3b9ba69035191cd3.png

 

And this post used to be centered on the railing

image.png.2ce676a3592e451ec152b8ac34be7921.png

 

I have the root info of the main linksets saved and so I can reset those, but these are individual parts of a linkset that are moving. Now I'll have to spend part of this weekend re-aligning everything.  I will come to hate these houses really fast if things keep shifting like this. 

It's too bad I can't see the coordinates of the actual house or pieces of it so that I can tell if it is shifting also.

 

Though I will say that I just found a good use for a rezzer system with this stuff.  If I had put it all in a rezzer box, I could now just delete it all and rerezz.  I most definitely will be doing that after I fix this.

 

Oh my, that looks pretty awful. 1 full degree rotation far exceeds the odd rounding error (which really only plagues one noticeably at very high altitudes). This has happened to me, from time to time too, and sometimes it can be fixed, simply by selecting the parts that are faulty (but clearly you already did that, to no avail). As I mentioned in my earlier post, often linking/unlinking stuff to a linkset causes it.

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3 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I think before you move all the stuff back to where it was, @Quartz Mole might be interested in taking a look at it maybe. I knew I wasn't imagining things!

He actually came over right after I posted this and verified that the house itself was still sitting properly.  Since my root prim was fine and just some of the linksets / pieces shifted, he even checked every child prim in the house set and all was good.

 

3 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Floating point rounding issues affect everything.

The only way around the problem is to anticipate it and build with some overlap, that way when things drift, you wont notice.

Fixing all the numbers by hand will only keep them fixed for a while. 

I've experienced things shifting a tad at high altitudes and truthfully tiny rotation changes typically are not noticeable.  It was the actual larger position shifts that I've never encountered at ground level that caught my eye and got me to looking at things.  That was when I noticed that roughly 75-80% of the pieces had rotated slightly and about 10% had actually shifted quite a bit in x-y-z position.  I honestly don't think in all my years here that I've had things open up and present such large gaps over the course of a couple of weeks (which was the last time I had looked at the edges of things).

 

 

My brain at least finally kicked in.  I was thinking I was going to have to manually shift each piece that is out of kilter.  However, since I have the positions of all of the root prims of the major linksets records and I also have backup copies of those linksets, all I actually have to do is delete them and replace them.  Since I hadn't gone the rezzer route, it will be a manual placement of each main linkset, but that is still better than messing with individual pieces.

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

He actually came over right after I posted this and verified that the house itself was still sitting properly.  Since my root prim was fine and just some of the linksets / pieces shifted, he even checked every child prim in the house set and all was good.

He is such a good boy!

opens the trapdoor to the cellar and tosses in a few extra earthworms

What?

mole.gif.647b1ab09cd49531f6281c815e3c2841.gif

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