Script Time, and the Importance of Avatar Weight.

[Yorkie Bardeen]

13 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

We have moved from selling hair in different shades, to selling 1 hair with a scripted color change HUD. Plus all the furniture that not only include sits, but change color and textures.

I am not sure what can be done. If it can be done. Is the color change/texture change what merchants want, or what customers want? It is something that came the last years.

It is better, to offer a 5 color HUD instead of 5 different hairs?

I can't think it would make my Secondlife worse.

Clothes is another thing. To offer xx different colors/textures for the price of what's often only a few percent over a single color.

The thing is that so few will bother with it. They don't read here. They notice lag, but will say they LL should fix it.

No one is going to be happy, no matter what way it goes.

A good number of creators offer even HUD based items with copy/mod permissions or script removal features so you can make a copy without scripts in it. I do it a lot, because I fly a lot, and I think it helps with that.

I have many copies of my Maitreya body saved outfits with the scripts removed (Maitreya has this feature, as does Slink- I don't know about others). My hands are de-scripted in all my outfits and still work fine with bento AOs. My (LOGO) head is copy/mod so I was able to delete the scripts in that. I lose the specific animations but the facial AOs still work if I want to add 128KB or so back on. Various hairs with script delete/removable (Mina, Elikatira or whatever the new name is), clothes by L&B, Neve, Vale Koer etc. I use FSAO to skip HUD AO scripts usually also.

I feel like I can look good in full mesh stuff and only 80-300KB of scripts depending on exact items. It's probably more extreme than most people would go to, but it helps me out, and is kind of fun in its own way to try and reduce. Even my "bad" outfits are rarely over 30 scripts/3MB.

Well anyway I'm not pushing for any policies, just hopefully it's useful to anyone looking to lower their personal impact (it really improves TPs also.)

[anthonytorino]

I checked my region and most the regional scripts are on avatars (be surprised how many people still don't take out resizers and use highly scripted other huds and redundant scripted items). The other is often beds, game tables ect. Most vehicles go inactive unit sat on and engine started (the newer ones at least). 

THe highest runnign scripts were linked to avatars, in perticular two people had more running then all the vehicles rezzed (mainly boats). 

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, kiramanell said:

So, please don't tell CoffeeDujour that she doesn't know what she's talking about, k?! Cuz you're looking mighty silly doing so.

Things not to do:   Invade Russia, get involved in a land war in Asia, tell CoffeeDujour she doesn't know what she's talking about, at least when the subject is scripts.

[kiramanell]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

 

 

^^ LOL. That was hi-hilarious. 😊

[Innula Zenovka]

7 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

^^ LOL. That was hi-hilarious. 😊

Any fule kno performance considerations mean your database should have go faster stripes.

[kiramanell]

1 hour ago, anthonytorino said:

I checked my region and most the regional scripts are on avatars (be surprised how many people still don't take out resizers and use highly scripted other huds and redundant scripted items). The other is often beds, game tables ect. Most vehicles go inactive unit sat on and engine started (the newer ones at least). 

THe highest runnign scripts were linked to avatars, in perticular two people had more running then all the vehicles rezzed (mainly boats). 

 

^^ As many ppl (including lil ol' me -- well, erm, not so old, LOL, but I digress) have attested to, it's really avi scripts that are a killer (especially when 'startng up', as someone mentioned, like when TP-ing in). I took a quick screenie from my Region manager debug tools (see below), to show you what a typical non-avi script is pulling, execution-time wise; a teleported pad, for instance, only takes 0.002 secs to execute (max), which is as good as nothing. An adult bed, for instance, may take more, when in operation, but that's only peak-load (at least, *g*, I hope pppl aren't using it permanently; they aren't, right?!). My avi took max 0.027 secs to execute on TP-in, btw.

 

[anthonytorino]

17 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

^^ As many ppl (including lil ol' me -- well, erm, not so old, LOL, but I digress) have attested to, it's really avi scripts that are a killer (especially when 'startng up', as someone mentioned, like when TP-ing in). I took a quick screenie from my Region manager debug tools (see below), to show you what a typical non-avi script is pulling, execution-time wise; a teleported pad, for instance, only takes 0.002 secs to execute (max), which is as good as nothing. An adult bed, for instance, may take more, when in operation, but that's only peak-load (at least, *g*, I hope pppl aren't using it permanently; they aren't, right?!). My avi took max 0.027 secs to execute on TP-in, btw.

 

THsoe are fairly low compared to these two having a 0.15 timing and each had a redundent amoutn of huds. Rarely do people leave those attached but when you check the avatar itself, they had used all but 2 attachment spots and were using nearly max scripts per avatar.  My body, catwa head and all parts only use 18%

[anthonytorino]

36 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Things not to do:   Invade Russia, get involved in a land war in Asia, tell CoffeeDujour she doesn't know what she's talking about, at least when the subject is scripts.

Россия вторгается в тебя

[kiramanell]

4 minutes ago, anthonytorino said:

THsoe are fairly low compared to these two having a 0.15 timing and each had a redundent amoutn of huds. Rarely do people leave those attached but when you check the avatar itself, they had used all but 2 attachment spots and were using nearly max scripts per avatar.  My body, catwa head and all parts only use 18%

 

Mine have no hud, but they come with a particle-effect and sound.

[Love Zhaoying]

49 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Any fule kno performance considerations mean your database should have go faster stripes.

Like Speed Racer’s Mach 5.

[Gabriele Graves]

7 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder if you can put 59 avatars on one Resident parcel.

Well you could stack them at the very least

[Wulfie Reanimator]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder if you can put 59 avatars on one Resident parcel.

Any sim can become "over-filled" when Premium accounts are involved.
See: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/premium-membership-r346/#Section__6_5

5 hours ago, anthonytorino said:

THsoe are fairly low compared to these two having a 0.15 timing and each had a redundent amoutn of huds. Rarely do people leave those attached but when you check the avatar itself, they had used all but 2 attachment spots and were using nearly max scripts per avatar.  My body, catwa head and all parts only use 18%

What is this magic percentage? Since when do avatars have a "max script limit" when there isn't even a hard limit on how many scripts you can put into a single object?

18 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

It is an option in edit to stop scripts running. We need a scripter that can come with some input.

Does it help to stop them, not remove?

If you set a script to "Not Running" (can be done manually or with other scripts), it's considered completely dead and won't even idle. So yes, turning off scripts does technically help.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

So yes, turning off scripts does technically help.

I think technically here is the key word, the balancing point of idle vs off is going to come so far down the line that should it ever practically matter, it will be long after server has burst into flames.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Well you could stack them at the very least

This needs to be done.

[kiramanell]

8 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I think technically here is the key word, the balancing point of idle vs off is going to come so far down the line that should it ever practically matter, it will be long after server has burst into flames.

 

Also, the server load of turning the scripts off, and then later on again, causing them to be reinitialized all over again (they're going to be recompiled each time you do, if you did the 'set to running' via the script editor), will far exceed the CPU load of all scripts' idle time put together. It's just not worth it.

N.B. I've said this before, though, but I will gladly say it again: I do not like good ppl taken advantage of (even when the restriction is self-imposed), having them turn off their furniture scripts and what not, out of the goodness of their own heart, thinking they're helping combat sim lag, when, in fact, them doing so has a practical effect of almost zero. That's just not right.

There's only one thing that will help: less AVI's. And I was really surprised to hear they upped the limit even, from 40 to 59. I had ere expected a new continent like Bellisseria to come with 'premium' performance too: aka, less AVI's allowed, instead of more.

[Coffee Pancake]

It will just take a little while to get there, look at the regions that were in the first roll out, they are already holding pretty steady at quite comfortable numbers.

Edited May 21, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Wulfie Reanimator]

34 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Also, the server load of turning the scripts off, and then later on again, causing them to be reinitialized all over again (they're going to be recompiled each time you do, if you did the 'set to running' via the script editor), will far exceed the CPU load of all scripts' idle time put together. It's just not worth it.

This is 100% false. Unchecking the "Running" checkbox will not cause the script to be recompiled or reset when it's checked again.

For proof, run this:

default
{
    state_entry()
    {
        integer counter;
        while(1)
        {
            llOwnerSay( (string)(++counter) );
            llSleep(0.1);
        }
    }
}

This will count up forever without resetting. Script time will be 0ms when the script is off and the typical "Mono spike" isn't there when the script is turned back on unlike when you save/recompile the script. Heck, I'll run it for you:

Obviously I'm not saying that this is practical or something to be expected of anyone to do.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[kiramanell]

5 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

This is 100% false. Unchecking the "Running" checkbox will not cause the script to be recompiled or reset when it's checked again.

 

You're right: the recompile is just on 'Save.' Setting it to not running means it just gets suspended (like when taking the object to inventory).

[ChinRey]

16 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

if most of the time they're just sitting there waiting to be used -- e.g. recolouring scripts in furniture -- won't have much impact unless they're also doing something that make them unnecessarily active (doing something stupid like listening on the public chat channel, for instance).

Thank you Innula, that was a very good description of how scripts are supposed to work and how we all thought it worked.

But did you read Animat's post? Apparently idle scripts do quite a bit of spinning, and with the large number of them we can have in a region, that is rather worrying.

There's another spin to it too. Animats told me about it with a few more details in a chat we had in-world. He has brought it up with LL and from what I understand from what he understood from their reply, they don't even realize that this is not normal behaviour from a computer application. That is even more worrying.

[Marianne Little]

Threads like this is a bit confusing. There is avatar A saying something that sound right and I want to correct my ways. Then avatar B says something different, that sounds logic and right too. So they contradict each other, but I can't tell whose advice I should follow.

To make my confusion total, avatar C then comes in and say avatar A and B are both wrong, because it is not issue 1 that is the real problem, but issue 2. Then avatar A comes back to clarify his/her points, still sounding as valid as avatar B and C. Avatar D then comes with his/her opinion...

And I have already deleted the scripts in my kitchen, but I have other questions?

1: If I understand correct, region loading avatar scripts is the main offender when things run like syrup. And Linden lab made it worse by increasing the number of avatars in each region.

2: To help my lag, I will not and can not demand others do this or that. But I help my lag by pulling out my stripped of scripts avatar, that I use in sales and events?

3: Does blocked avatars affect me as much as unblocked ones? Is it any point to block group invite avatars that stand still in a house?

4: Does it help to derender growing crops, that has a hoover text showing xx% growth and that is changing? Every thing with hoover text that show anything changing?

5: Does it help to derender pets that are moving around?

Sorry for the many questions. 😞 You don't have to answer if I sound stupid.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 5/20/2019 at 5:35 AM, Marianne Little said:

We have moved from selling hair in different shades, to selling 1 hair with a scripted color change HUD. Plus all the furniture that not only include sits, but change color and textures.

Where all the color HUDs are sold separately.

 

There is a few brands out there that not only sell MOD hair, but even their hud includes a handy button to kill scripts in the hair without having to edit it yourself.

[Fiona Nova]

With your described measures you can reduce the lag on the sim a little bit. Your own lag will not be influenced positively at all.

Maybe you should take a look at this link. There you will find a detailed description how to reduce your personal lag. Then it doesn't really matter what Avatar A or B/C say or claim.

https://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/lag

[Kyrah Abattoir]

7 minutes ago, AngieRath said:

With your described measures you can reduce the lag on the sim a little bit. Your own lag will not be influenced positively at all.

Maybe you should take a look at this link. There you will find a detailed description how to reduce your personal lag. Then it doesn't really matter what Avatar A or B/C say or claim.

https://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/lag

Script usage is not subjective.

[Fiona Nova]

11 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Script usage is not subjective.

We don't have to argue about this.

[kiramanell]

28 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Threads like this is a bit confusing. There is avatar A saying something that sound right and I want to correct my ways. Then avatar B says something different, that sounds logic and right too. So they contradict each other, but I can't tell whose advice I should follow.

To make my confusion total, avatar C then comes in and say avatar A and B are both wrong, because it is not issue 1 that is the real problem, but issue 2. Then avatar A comes back to clarify his/her points, still sounding as valid as avatar B and C. Avatar D then comes with his/her opinion...

And I have already deleted the scripts in my kitchen, but I have other questions?

1: If I understand correct, region loading avatar scripts is the main offender when things run like syrup. And Linden lab made it worse by increasing the number of avatars in each region.

2: To help my lag, I will not and can not demand others do this or that. But I help my lag by pulling out my stripped of scripts avatar, that I use in sales and events?

3: Does blocked avatars affect me as much as unblocked ones? Is it any point to block group invite avatars that stand still in a house?

4: Does it help to derender growing crops, that has a hoover text showing xx% growth and that is changing? Every thing with hoover text that show anything changing?

5: Does it help to derender pets that are moving around?

Sorry for the many questions. 😞 You don't have to answer if I sound stupid.

 

Ha!  And, before I proceed, my apologies to all for my adding to the confusion by claiming a recompile takes place on setting a script to running (remind me not to post again at 5 AM -- unless I'm actually getting up at that hour, LOL). The thing to keep in mind, though, is perspective. Animats talked about "12ms of time going down the drain" for 4,000 scripts running idle. Which is, for a server, for all purposes and intent, totally negligible. As for your specific questions:

1) Yes, absolutely right.

2) If you visit an event, or sales thingy, stripping your avatar of any and all scripts would certainly help -- but only really noticeable if every other visitor did the same. Or, put differently, if you were the only avi with no scripts, the positive impact would be rather minimal, of course (but it still counts).

3) + 4) Typically, everything you're blocking/derendering will mitigate your own lag -- but only to the degree where your viewer/video card, is simply having to work less hard. Like reducing your draw distance. You may certainly experience the positive effects thereof, but it won't help with server lag. The server will simply remained bogged down, whether you (locally) derendered stuff or not.

5) Like 3) + 4) Derezzing animated pets will assuredly reduce server lag (as those pets behave like avi's that way, script-wise, moving all about). And derendering them will lighten the load on your viewer (again, a local thing), but, as to the server, it will still be there, and thus not help in reducing server lag.